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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 8/27/2002 5:33 PM   
Forgues Research



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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I beleive there is a web site with info, I will try and find it and let you know.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 8/27/2002 5:53 PM   
Forgues Research



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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Here is the web site for the Harrier porject,
http://www.ottawarcclub.com/ericd.htm

I should make it a point to see it, as he lives in my area...

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 8/27/2002 5:56 PM   
Forgues Research



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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		After reading more on this Harrier, I was mistaken, it flies only on a ducted fan, sorry for the confusion...

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 8/28/2002 2:52 PM   
Dansy



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Status: offline 		Eric spend a lot of hours working and trying different thing, I live in Ottawa back then, also note that Eric is a season Helicopter flier.. he taught me how to set-up helicopter and fly helicopter....his harrier at first could either maintain hover or do forward flight it took him a few years and more powerful engine and lite airplane combination to accomplish both on the same flight.

Daniel D.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 8/30/2002 1:42 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		back to the turbo prop :

yesterday we did two test runs on ground to record all turbine related parameters. instead of the orbit display a laptop is connected to the ECU. on the screen there are two curves, one displaying rpm, the other EGT. pointing at the curves with the cursor fuel pump voltage can be found too.

we did the first test run with the ECU we used the last flights. first test was to increase pitch to the max within 4 second. second we gave max pitch instantly. EGT was within its limits, low rev at 79.000 and peak at 94.000rpm however. that means that this ECU allows an overshoot of 10.000rpm. thus limiting our prop revs. interestingly there was no big difference in rev aberation during slow or quick "pitching".

the second run we did, was performed with an updated ECU. it should provide more stable revs but gave similar results. in addition to this the unit tended to oscillate resulting in a permanent up and down of turbine rpm.

the recorded parameters have been sent to the manufacturer. now we are hoping that our test runs give the manufacturer the chance for further improvments.

in the meantime we are preparing for further demoflights in trieben, austria, coming weekend.


mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 9/2/2002 12:34 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		just coming from the airshow "trieben".

we did a further demoflight with our turbo prop. it was the first time the engine had a problem.

after three minutes of flawless aerobatic flying suddenly there was a loss in power output although the engine seemed to run faultless as ever.
at the moment i have not done further investigations on this issue. but as far as i know, my engine has the internal gears of the first series of this turbine and there is one gear known probably to fail after lots of hours of transmitting full power. this causes to slow down prop rpm although turbine revs are at the normal rate (pilot ernst could manage a safe landing doing no further damage to the plane).

new and improved gear wheels are available and we will change the suspected part.

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 9/9/2002 6:37 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		it took two days and i had the engine back.
i was right, one inner gear wheel failed and has been changed to the new "one piece" wheel. so no more "slipping clutch phenomen" can occur.

on friday we did another test flight. the plane worked flawless again. the power for verticals is limited (actuall weight of the plane is 10.8kg dry). it is possible to hover the plane for two, three seconds but afterwards it loses altitude. maybe a larger prop with less pitch would give better hover performance.

but i prefer to wait for a power increase as a result of more rpm. that means to wait for an ECU update which will come soon (i hope )


mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 9/20/2002 4:14 PM   
woodscra


 

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Status: offline 		I sure would like to see the hovering come along. Just curious if it has flown again and if someone is going to maufacture most of the gear you made and eventually sell it to the rest of us.
This just might be the next turn in our hobby.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 9/20/2002 8:03 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		hi woodscra,

hovering the plane is my dream and my next goal. for this flight maneuver more power is demanded. the easiest way for more power is to rev up the engine. unfortunately there are some limits we do not want to ignore. the turbine should be safe up to 90.000rpm (limiting factor is the turbine wheel which a specially design for turbo shaft engines). now we go with 84.000rpm, the ECU however overrevving up to 94.000rpm. therefore we do not dare to set the revs at a higher value. at present we are waiting for an ECU upgrade providing more stable rpms. yes i would like to see more accurate, prompt ECU updates. but our modeller friend Arno, who is responsible for the electronical updates is a busy man and he has much work to do on developing and maintaining, servicing his battery chargers, rev speed controllers, Battery voltage monitors and all the other stuff he offers to the modeller. i hope that we can test the next ECU version next week, but i know that it is possible that a further, and further programming will be necessary.

yes, the plane has flown again. if you have followed the thread, you know that the plane is flown by Ernst, who is a very experienced pilot since 15 years. two weeks ago i tried to fly it by myself (i started flying four years ago). i can say that ernst succeeded in developing the plane from a terrible monster to a very easy to fly aerobatic plane. take off without any problems, and flight characteristics without any bad habits. the plane does inverted flight without down elevator and it responds to each stick movement. it best performs with full pitch, this makes life easy too. the one and only thing that differs from a conventional 2 or 4 stroke plane is the landing. once you have determined the pitch setting for steady slow down, it is forbidden to go to less or zero pitch, otherwise the plane drops like a stone. at the moment it touches the ground zero pitch, or better negative pitch is helpfull for short landings.

>if someone is going to manufacture most of the gear you made and eventually sell it to the rest of us<


peter jakadofsky, the manufacturer of the engine, is selling the turbine and mechanics for helis. please contact him at
[email]pj-w@aon.at[/email]


mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 9/27/2002 2:07 AM   
JoeEagle



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Status: offline 		Wow, this project is amazing...i've been reading these posts from the beginning and cannot believe all that you have achieved. I wanted to comment several times as i read, but in the next few posts you received lots of go info.

from the looks of it, you have solved just about all of your problems. (i was going to tell you to look at a pt-6 king air exhaust or pc-12 pilatus, but you have the handley exhaust which must work well.

only comment about exhaust gases (which don't seem to be a factor for you is that most turbo props keep the stab/elevator up and out of the way of the exhaust.

hey, but what do i know, you are flying the plane.

are you coming to the superman jet rally here in the states?? i would think that there would be a LOT of interest.

keep more videos coming.

cheers

joe

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/2/2002 3:12 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		@ joe,

no, we do not plan to come to the superman jet rally. we would like to come, however.

but there are so many problems waiting:
# long journey
# transport of plane
# 72mHz (instead of 35mHz we use)
# no AMA approved engine (AMA is preventing progress for the US modeller, just my opinion)


in the meantime we did two more demonstration flights at the Jet Meeting "Nitro Days Punitz" in austria. weather was windy, sunny but cold (11°C). the plane liked the cold air, the engine produced visible more power. ernst did the flights and performed several loops, rolls, cuban8 and the common aerobatic manövers.

yesterday the new programmed ECU arrived. test runs on the bench showed no improvement in rpm constancy, however. so the wait for an improvement continues.

in a previous post someone asked about the hovering ability of the plane. it will be a long way and i am full of hopes. but for sure, this engine in a Funtana (2mx2m, F3A-3D from Weiershäuser) would make the plane to a vertical rocket. the plane weights 5.5kg with a conventional OS 160 or 3W-24. the fuselage seems to be wide enough to accept the turbine.
but this way is far toooo easy

on the picture below you can see the warp of the canopy and canopy frame done by the hot exhaust gases. the wings near the fuselage are protected by an aluminium tape. in winter I will add some vanes to the exhaust end pipes.


mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/2/2002 12:08 PM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Mec,
I have a funtana getting built for me by probuild in Enlgland, and I have good news for you. With a 160FX engine, it should weigh around 4.5-4.7kg........About a kilo lighter. As you say there is plenty of room in there to chop off the engine box....
There are loads of pics at [url]www.teamrebel.org/funtana[/url] It'll be something to see alright.....

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/2/2002 12:09 PM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		woops, [url]www.team-rebel.org/funtana[/url]

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/3/2002 12:54 AM   
wild3dfunfly



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Status: offline 		is there any links for the video that work i need some cause ive been dyin to watch this thing fly whenever i click on the vid links it goes to the quicktime sign then it shows an error !! hmmmm im geting kinda upset

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Very Nice, - 10/3/2002 3:14 AM   
=XGC= OzZ



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Status: offline 		I am very very impressed.


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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/3/2002 2:47 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		@ wild3dfunfly:
have you tried
http://www.hal.at/jets/
>videos
> CAP222 Turbo prob mit Verstellpropeller

should work.



@ robert:
thanks for the funtana link. I ordered mine 2 weeks ago. delivery date end of september. powered by an OS 160 engine.


mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/3/2002 8:50 PM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		Os 160.....I would go for a P-120.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/3/2002 8:51 PM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		I know millions more Funtana links if you want them.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/3/2002 10:50 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		thanx, i saved some funtana pages already. with their help I should be able to succeed building the plane.

Turbo Cap:
in the meantime, waiting for an ECU update, I am thinking of replacing the 21 screws of the engine cowl against something like tiny "quick disconnectors". yet being in an experimantal stage on the plane, it feel obligated to control and maintain all moving parts of the engine, gear and pitch prop system. this routine check makes it necessary to demount the engine cowl. the first flights I did maintenance after every flight. maintenance intervalls had changed to every third flight. now I am getting tired of screw and unscrew 21 screws.

from the racing industry two systems are known:


and a rubber based one. both are way too big and heavy for my purpose.
I am wondering that it seemes that there is no such item in the modeller industry. or does anybody know if something similar is available, and where to order?
I am on the way to do it by my own, but it is a lot of work. my one and only idea can be seen on the picture below. the 4.8mm ball (part A) shall replace the (diameter) 2.5mm screw. part B is instead of the thread. the ball snaps into the gap between the two 0.6mm piano wires.

anybody has a better idea??


mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/3/2002 11:42 PM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		On the back of my mobile phone, there is a little screw type thingy to take off the over. It is very hard to explain, but here goes.....
The screw is like a normal screw, but instead of threads, it has to small flat pieces opposite each other.
The body...or in your case, the fuselage, there is a normal round hole, and then at opposite ends to each other, there are 2 notches shaped like the flat plate on the screw. With this, you can put in the screw with the plates, but once the plates are on the other side of the wall of the fuse, you turn the screw around 90 degrees. The plates now are not where the holes for them to get in and out are, so they can't come out.
So, to take off the cowl, you twist the screw 90s 21 times, and bobs your uncle. Some of these screws don't even need to be taken of the cowl, they can just stay there when you take it off.
I don't know how it would survive vibration though.
Now, did you get all that?
(Look at th ebak of a siemens M35 mobile phone if you have one.)
Rob.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/4/2002 12:34 AM   
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Status: offline 		replace the screws with little posts that have small holes drilled though at the end, dill the holes bigger in the cowl to fit over these posts. then use body clips used by RC racers. 21 quick tugs ( the bigger loop ones would be best ) and its off. no tools required

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/4/2002 12:36 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		yes, got it all.
but it´s not easy. the screw-clone has to be locked in 90° position to stay closed. I asume, this has to be done by a spring or something else. we call this system "bajonett verschluß".

I will do investigations on M35, I am going with nokia, however.

another idea to solve this problem would be the use of magnets.
access to the exhaust compartment is done by two doors, on the outer side hinged, on the inner side closed by tiny magnets. for the engine cowl this solution seems to be unsafe however.

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/4/2002 12:45 AM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		I think that MK do something called a magic box, or blak box, or something like that....They use it for the Belly pan on pattern ships, about four are needed for it.
Then there are BVM hath lips, but I don't have a clue about these, so again, I wouldn't know.
[url]www.bvmjets.com[/url]

The clip on my phone is very stiff, and can't be shaken loose. I dout if it an vibrate off to easily. I think its cause of the rubber on the battery bak.
Robert.
P.S. Go siemens, nokia aren't worth it!

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/4/2002 4:02 AM   
wild3dfunfly



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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 10/4/2002 11:52 AM   
robert


 

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Status: offline 		Which ones? Please son't say all of 'em!!!

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