RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C  
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RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/21/2008 11:28:40 PM   
Woketman



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From: Slidell, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

Is that all? There are more complaints than that about Futaba and Spectrum right here on RCU.


I think X-Jet summed it up VERY nicely in Post #23. But FanBoy ears are deaf ears. That's OK, you will ultimately crash aircraft due to XPS. I just sincerely hope that the worst that happens is crushed balsa and fiberglass - NOT loss of life.

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       Post #: 26

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/21/2008 11:32:08 PM   
Woketman



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

I have followed all the threads on this topic in every forum and have never posted in any of them. most of the time the material is way over my head. We have many in our area flying 2.4, but I have only seen two on XPS and one of them is now afraid to use it in anything larger then 40 size, even tho he has not had any problems.
The one thing I have noticed is that almost every time someone question xjet or kiwi on XPS they have a AZ near their handle, and on one with any expertize has countered with proof.
Just my thought on the matter. Dennis


Good points Dennis. I always thought that the Arizona thing was VERY suspicious too!

Well, the good thing is that it looks like most folks are getting the message and there are less and less folks "newbie" enough to listen to JD's nonsense.

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       Post #: 27

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 1:22:55 AM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3130
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Actually I am from Nebraska. I have also lived in California, Pensylvania,New York, Florida, Washington, Mississippi, Missouri,Ohio,Iowa,Mass.Conn, Nevada,Texas, and Colo. That plus a seven year stint in Europe(Norway).
Now I reside in AZ with summers in Wa. That way I got to meet and talk to JD. Too bad none of you have.

< Message edited by dirtybird -- 8/22/2008 1:24:02 AM >

(in reply to Woketman)
       Post #: 28

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 1:57:25 AM   
Woketman



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From: Slidell, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

Actually I am from Nebraska. I have also lived in California, Pensylvania,New York, Florida, Washington, Mississippi, Missouri,Ohio,Iowa,Mass.Conn, Nevada,Texas, and Colo. That plus a seven year stint in Europe(Norway).
Now I reside in AZ with summers in Wa. That way I got to meet and talk to JD. Too bad none of you have.


Yeah, too bad. If I ever meet him, I can put my foot up his a_s!!!

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       Post #: 29

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 2:14:16 AM   
Gordito Volador



Posts: 607
Joined: 7/1/2003
From: Ruskin, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Perhaps Dirtybird can explain why the posts that detail the problems with XPS keep being deleted in the XPS forum, since he knows Jim Drew. Or maybe he can enlighten us, the unclean, as to why anytime anyone questions the great JD he gets personally attacked by the "Drewistas" as a response to his technical question.

< Message edited by Gordito Volador -- 8/22/2008 2:16:57 AM >

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       Post #: 30

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 2:58:10 AM   
Dick T.


 

Posts: 714
Joined: 2/13/2002
From: Visalia, CA, USA
Status: online 		Reading through this thread presents several sides of the argument as to the suitability of XPS in RC use.

In one respect the technical argument is probably sound but sometimes engineers get so wrapped up in technobabble they will shelve a perfectly good project after talking themselves into its uselessness.

Likewise XPS users who have encountered no problems or issues with their equipment may, or may not, be influenced by any of this technospeak. Doesn’t meant they are disinterested or intellectually inferior, just their experience differs from the bogeyman scenario

XPS users who experienced problems may have genuine issues. However in our RC environment many issues from poor installations and related component performance all the way to a perfect setup influence how well it all functions.

In my many RC years I still believe the weakest link is still the Dodo who builds it, installs it and holds the sticks.

Technical folks can present endless arguments about the merits, or lack of, in one issue vs. another. End users completely satisfied with their equipment just flip the switch and go fly. Both can be equally firm with their position.



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(in reply to Gordito Volador)
       Post #: 31

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 3:07:02 AM   
XJet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dick T.

Reading through this thread presents several sides of the argument as to the suitability of XPS in RC use.

In one respect the technical argument is probably sound but sometimes engineers get so wrapped up in technobabble they will shelve a perfectly good project after talking themselves into its uselessness.

(snip)

Technical folks can present endless arguments about the merits, or lack of, in one issue vs. another. End users completely satisfied with their equipment just flip the switch and go fly. Both can be equally firm with their position.

What you say is often valid except that I've spent *many* hours evaluating, testing and using the XBeePro modules in UAV applications.

Originally it was hoped that they'd be viable as a control link in low-cost short-range systems such as used on our hovering camera platform but unfortunately the very issues that I've already cited proved to be very apparent in the actual real-world application of the XBeePro modules for this task.

Now we use them for non-critical telemetry only and even then we find that they are sub-optimal in a number of regards (related primarily to their RF performance).

So I'm not just spouting "book talk", I'm speaking from in the field, first-hand practical experience.


(in reply to Dick T.)
       Post #: 32

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 5:17:16 AM   
dirtybird


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gordito Volador

Perhaps Dirtybird can explain why the posts that detail the problems with XPS keep being deleted in the XPS forum, since he knows Jim Drew. Or maybe he can enlighten us, the unclean, as to why anytime anyone questions the great JD he gets personally attacked by the "Drewistas" as a response to his technical question.


Sure I can explain it. If I were running the forum I would get rid of all negative posts. And anyone making negative posts would be banned. Let them go create their own forum. After all he is the one paying for its upkeep. Why put up with garbage?

I didn't say I know JD. I just have talked to him. He has no idea who I am. Since I live in AZ our paths have crossed several times.
When his product came on the market I was skeptical. I had read many bad things about JD and his paintball bz. So I went to one of his demos to see for myself. I was impressed so I bought a system when the came out and ran my own tests.
I am a EE with 40 years experience in the aerospace industry, a quite a bit of it in test engineering. But since I am retired I have access to limited test equipment so I cannot do much testing. What I found seemed to be satisfactory.
This capability of being able to hop or not when faced with interference is not important in my opinion. There just is not that much RF floating around in the 2.4ghz band to worry about. Remember most equipment on the 2.4GHZ band are limited to 100mw. I worried a bit about MW ovens so I sat my system on my MW and tried it. There was not even a glitch.
Since I, and several others, have been able to operate this equipment for several months without a glitch, I just have to conclude that most of the problems with it are operator problems

(in reply to Gordito Volador)
       Post #: 33

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 5:30:13 AM   
dirtybird


 

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From: Mesa, AZ, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dick T.

Reading through this thread presents several sides of the argument as to the suitability of XPS in RC use.

In one respect the technical argument is probably sound but sometimes engineers get so wrapped up in technobabble they will shelve a perfectly good project after talking themselves into its uselessness.

(snip)

Technical folks can present endless arguments about the merits, or lack of, in one issue vs. another. End users completely satisfied with their equipment just flip the switch and go fly. Both can be equally firm with their position.

What you say is often valid except that I've spent *many* hours evaluating, testing and using the XBeePro modules in UAV applications.

Originally it was hoped that they'd be viable as a control link in low-cost short-range systems such as used on our hovering camera platform but unfortunately the very issues that I've already cited proved to be very apparent in the actual real-world application of the XBeePro modules for this task.

Now we use them for non-critical telemetry only and even then we find that they are sub-optimal in a number of regards (related primarily to their RF performance).

So I'm not just spouting "book talk", I'm speaking from in the field, first-hand practical experience




If you have that much practical experience with it, tell us what the sensitivity of the receiver in db. What is its noise figure? What signal to noise ratio is required for the receiver maintain lock and not drop into fail safe? What is its bandwidth? What is the transmitted data rate?
Is it a PLL receiver?
How does this compare with Futaba and spectrum?



< Message edited by dirtybird -- 8/22/2008 5:31:21 AM >

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 34

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 6:09:32 AM   
XJet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird
If you have that much practical experience with it, tell us what the sensitivity of the receiver in db. What is its noise figure? What signal to noise ratio is required for the receiver maintain lock and not drop into fail safe? What is its bandwidth? What is the transmitted data rate?
Is it a PLL receiver?
How does this compare with Futaba and spectrum?

Why would I bother doing this? ... as I have said, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince FBs of anything because it can't be done.

If you're an EE then go look up the relevant documents yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'm not your mother.


(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 35

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 7:39:25 AM   
Woketman



Posts: 4203
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Slidell, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Dirty Fan Boy, you been handed your a_s!

Maybe JD can make you feel better.

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       Post #: 36

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 11:47:41 AM   
SoCalSal


 

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From: spring valley , CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

Actually I am from Nebraska. I have also lived in California, Pensylvania,New York, Florida, Washington, Mississippi, Missouri,Ohio,Iowa,Mass.Conn, Nevada,Texas, and Colo. That plus a seven year stint in Europe(Norway).
Now I reside in AZ with summers in Wa. That way I got to meet and talk to JD. Too bad none of you have.



Don't EVER argue any of Xjets points on this XPS thing. Don't debate this man...he likes to debate this issue and if you don't agree with him you are a so called "FanBoy" of Jim Drew.
However if you agree with Xjet you will never be called a "Fanboy" of Xjet............ funny how that works.


If you want to use the XPS system and it has been working for you just go about doing it. But always remember this....XPS is not supposed to work very well for RC according to all of Xjets reasons and tests. Just ask his "Fanboys"

Now you have a choise........ do you want to be a JD fanboy or and Xjet fanboy??????????

Oh!!!!!!!!! I live in California...Arizona shares a border with California............YIPPE!!!!!!!!!! I'm a JD fanboy because of where I live.

< Message edited by SoCalSal -- 8/22/2008 11:51:39 AM >

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(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 37

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 1:08:37 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1969
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dick T.

.....
Technical folks can present endless arguments about the merits, or lack of, in one issue vs. another. End users completely satisfied with their equipment just flip the switch and go fly. Both can be equally firm with their position.



Except for maybe this situation.. Only the xps/ifs users had problems and now xps/ifs is banned..

quote:

=Julez Here are some images from a recent pylon event:











Now guess what all these planes had in common:



Needless to say, iFS is forbidden at future pylon events.


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911765&page=2&pp=30


< Message edited by jonkoppisch -- 8/22/2008 1:12:32 PM >

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(in reply to Dick T.)
       Post #: 38

RE: Suitability of X-Bee Modules for R/C - 8/22/2008 3:54:27 PM   
Woketman



Posts: 4203
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From: Slidell, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoCalSal

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

Actually I am from Nebraska. I have also lived in California, Pensylvania,New York, Florida, Washington, Mississippi, Missouri,Ohio,Iowa,Mass.Conn, Nevada,Texas, and Colo. That plus a seven year stint in Europe(Norway).
Now I reside in AZ with summers in Wa. That way I got to meet and talk to JD. Too bad none of you have.



Don't EVER argue any of Xjets points on this XPS thing. Don't debate this man...he likes to debate this issue and if you don't agree with him you are a so called