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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 8/28/2009 8:09 AM   
mart o


 

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Actually, if you set the dihedral the way the manual says to, you will get adverse roll coupling in knife edge, which says it needs more dihedral. I've built two of these now (don't ask), and on the first one I followed the manual and it had the adverse roll. On the second, I just joined the wings as they are made, butting the two halves together, taking whatever dihedral it gave me (more). No adverse roll couple on this one.


I cn't change the dihedral now and I took a lot of care to set it up as per Koyosho manual. I hope it's not been in vain, I'll find out soon enough.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 8/30/2009 4:51 PM   
flutter caused it


 

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Status: offline 		Thinn , I also have just purchased an Osmose. I had always wanted one and finally took the plunge. After reading most of the threads, I was excited to get started, that is until I got to yours. Your thread stated that no matter where you located the "CG", the plane dives towards the ground while inverted. Are you still having this issue? And is anyone else familiar with this characteristic pertaining to the Osmose 70? If others are sharing this "diving" while inverted, I think I may not build the plane. I was hopeing for it to be fairly neutral in all axises. Is this wishful thinking.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 8/30/2009 6:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		I certainly don't have the problem of diving while inverted. I have to hold a slight amount of down elevator, just like on any pattern plane. Certainly nothing significant.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 8/30/2009 6:48 PM   
Thinn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flutter caused it

Thinn , I also have just purchased an Osmose. I had always wanted one and finally took the plunge. After reading most of the threads, I was excited to get started, that is until I got to yours. Your thread stated that no matter where you located the ''CG'', the plane dives towards the ground while inverted. Are you still having this issue? And is anyone else familiar with this characteristic pertaining to the Osmose 70? If others are sharing this ''diving'' while inverted, I think I may not build the plane. I was hopeing for it to be fairly neutral in all axises. Is this wishful thinking.


I don't think you should worry too much about this... Any pattern plane will dive some inverted (OK, some will surely arrest me here...).
On ARF's there is not too much to to with the incidences, as everything is fairly finished.
I still have not tried mine with the slight incidence change on the main wing, but I do belive this is a minor issue, and is easy to overcome if it is a problem (as in my case). The plane is more than capable as is, but I like my planes to be a bit more "neutral" - dive slightly less inverted.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 8/30/2009 10:00 PM   
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Status: offline 		I agree to Jon and Thinn as others stated.

I followed through the thread, but I don't think anyone actually said diving problem during inverted flight. Did I miss something??

Of all the planes other than 3D planes, pattern planes dive the least during inverted flight. With a slight push on the elevator, most plane should stay level unless the wing has lots of incidence and/or semi-symmetrical or flat bottom airfoils.

Electric version Osmose 70 has removable two piece wing. I am waiting for one to build next year.

Ihncheol


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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 8/30/2009 11:25 PM   
flutter caused it


 

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Status: offline 		In post # 92, Thinn stated " found that however much I altered the CG, the plane still dove drastically inverted. Trying to fix this by altering the wing incidence a bit." I also am following this build thread and recently purchased an Omose 70. After reading Thinn's post, I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone else had encountered this issue. Surely pattern style aircraft try to keep this to an absolute minium. My old Super Kaos flies as well inverted as it does canopy up. I can tolerate a "very" slight push on the elevator while inverted, but any more than "very slight" may make me move on to another plane besides the Osmose. That was the sole reason for looking for clarifcation on particular issue.
It also seems unamious form reading these post that there is very minimal coupling while in Knife edge (a great sign). I agree that "bigger" flies better, but building a neutral flying, precision pattern stlye aircraft isnt limited to 2M size planes. There are those of us who simply desire a simple to transport, precision plane in a smaller size, with the correct flying characteristis. I hope this Osmose fits that bill!

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 9/7/2009 4:39 AM   
mart o


 

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Status: offline 		The Osmose is finished and would have taken to the sky at the weekend but for our British weather. I have put 3 tanks through the OS FS82a and I already have a lot of faith in this engine. A 5 second prime on full throttle, back to idle and only had to touch it with the starter to fire in to life for it's first run. On very rich setting with a little leaning out from time to time and then back to rich I had 13 mins so fuel economy looks fairly good. Next weekend the forecast is better so fingers crossed.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 9/14/2009 5:04 AM   
mart o


 

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Status: offline 		I had three flights with the Osmose yesterday. Only minor adjustment on the trims needed. I really enjoyed flying this plane, knife edge flight was especially good with very little rudder input needed. Inverted needed a little more down elevator than I would have liked but I would not describe it as diving drastically. C of G is set to the rear mark as given in the manual and I'm still playing with expo and throws but so far it really has been joy to fly. When I got home I noticed a hairline crack in one of the spats so I've reinforced the inside of them both with a little fibre glass.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 9/16/2009 5:09 PM   
axaaxa


 

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I have a reconditioned OS 91,wondering would be a good match for the Osmose?

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 9/16/2009 5:10 PM   
axaaxa


 

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Sorry its an OS FS .91


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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 9/17/2009 5:00 AM   
mart o


 

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Status: offline 		I put an OS fs81a in my Osmose. It fits in nicely but I did have to cut a hole in the cowl for the rocker cover to protrude. I also had to position the flight pack as far back as I could under the servo's to get the c of g right. I used a 90 degree header to keep the exhaust system in cowl (there are pics in an earlier post). In flight there is way way way enough power. If I was building again and wanted to use an OS I would probably use the fs72a. I'm sure an FS 91 is possible to fit in but the Osmose really doesn't need that amount of power and I suspect the extra weight and size would compromise it in flight.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/9/2009 2:11 PM   
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ORIGINAL: mart o

I put an OS fs81a in my Osmose. It fits in nicely but I did have to cut a hole in the cowl for the rocker cover to protrude. I also had to position the flight pack as far back as I could under the servo's to get the c of g right. I used a 90 degree header to keep the exhaust system in cowl (there are pics in an earlier post). In flight there is way way way enough power. If I was building again and wanted to use an OS I would probably use the fs72a. I'm sure an FS 91 is possible to fit in but the Osmose really doesn't need that amount of power and I suspect the extra weight and size would compromise it in flight.


Hi, I just received the O.S. FS-110 Alpha which I intended to use in the OSMOSE 70. I think that throttle management will be required ?

//Gunnar

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/9/2009 5:00 PM   
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Status: offline 		SynergyPilot,

You will need a lot of throttle management since FS110 will be way over powered for the plane.
Stock gear may not have enough ground clearance for anything longer than 13". (stock setup is 13x6) I am using Bolly F3A carbon gear on mine that is taller than stock.
It may become too fast even for landing since the FS110 will need at least 13x9 or higher pitch.

You may want to beef up the LG plate mounting also.

Good luck,


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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/10/2009 6:33 AM   
SynergyPilot


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatternFlyer

SynergyPilot,

You will need a lot of throttle management since FS110 will be way over powered for the plane.
Stock gear may not have enough ground clearance for anything longer than 13''. (stock setup is 13x6) I am using Bolly F3A carbon gear on mine that is taller than stock.
It may become too fast even for landing since the FS110 will need at least 13x9 or higher pitch.

You may want to beef up the LG plate mounting also.

Good luck,

Hi PatternFlyer,

I think that the OS FS110 will be ideal for that model. The weight will be approx 2.600 kg - typical weight for the classic F3A aircrafts from the 70's where I was using OS HANNO SPEC. 61 and WEBRA SPEED 61 with long tuned pipes. Wingspan was slightly the same 1400 - 1500 mm. They were designed with fuses very slim and not like the modern ships like OSMOMSE, OXALYS, VALIANT etc, where a big, thick and high fuse enables more control, lower constant speed and brilliant KE abilities.

The FS-110 Alpha weighs 600 gram - on the spot. 1.8 hp
The FS-70 Ultimate weighs 480 gram approx. 1.2 hp (I am using this engine in my OXALYS 50)
The WEBRA SPEED 61 weighs 445 gram. 1.96 hp

Weightwise I am dealing with managing 150 gram more weight using the same components - no additional led weight in the rear.

Prop size will be 13 x 6-8 x 3 (Three blade prop) supporting the slower constant speed in the downlines even more.

And yes - LG plate and the LG itself might need to be replaced to something higher, lighter and stiffer. Unfortenately BOLLY seems to have been forced to close their business down. Do you know if there still is some left over dealer stock somewhere - I would be greatful.

I talked to Hatori Japan and they will be manufacturing the cooling header for the OS FS-110 Alpha during december this year. I will be using that one with the short pipe. It fits like a schmack - using that config in the oxalys and the sound is brilliant and very silent.

Hope to hear more ideas and thoughts around this overpowered beast.

Rgds/Gunnar



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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/10/2009 6:41 AM   
mart o


 

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Status: offline 		110 sounds a little crazy. On the 81a I use a 14X7 prop and ground clearance is OK but not a lot to spare. The carb is quit close to the firewall and you may have a problem there. It flys great with this engine, the biggest downside is on the ground. With a very slow tick over, on the tarmac she's still moving, on the grass (as long as it's short) it's much better.
Hope all goes well.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/21/2009 12:48 PM   
SynergyPilot


 

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Status: offline 		Just received my O.S. FS-110 Alpha and what a nice piece of machinery !!! Unfortenately HATORI has planned the production of the cooled header for december this year. The Osmose 70 will arrive next week and I can not wait to start with the engine mount. Come back to this forum for some nice building pictures.

//SynergyPilot

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/21/2009 2:52 PM   
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Status: offline 		I was planning on using a .91FX I had laying around.I think that engine will be a great deal happier in a model this size than 91sized model I used it in before.You can use a 14" prop with this model right? If so, I'll use a 14x10 and get a very quiet set-up. No revs, but I'll have heaps of power anyway.And Im going for a straight forward deal here... Nothing fancy. Tank behind the fire wall, standard servos. No nonsense functionality.

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 10/26/2009 1:17 AM   
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Status: offline 		I used Hitec HS 225MG servos on ailerons, HS85MG's on both elevator halves inserting to the modified rear side of the fuselage,HS 225 BB on throttle and Futaba S 9252 on rudder/pull-pull. The engine was YS 63S with stock muffler. Dry weight is 2270 gr and the model flies better than my friend's OS 50 SX Ring powered and standard servo equiped Osmose. I can advise this setup for this model...The stock elevator pushrod system is not suitable for the pattern plane because it is not accurate.Elevator pushrod is flexible and too heavy...The elevator servo hole modification is very easy.You must cut two holes with the same size of the servo outer dimensions to the rear of the fuse,one hole one side and one hole the other side.... Best area is bottom of the stab. Carefully measure the servo dimensions and mark lines to the fuse and cut holes...Servos located one on the top of the other not successively...Servo horns must be same axis line when looking the upper view for the equal precission movement...I will search photos from my archive and will attach...

I recommend the thin CA apply to the all film joining lines.I'm using insuline injection needle attached thin CA .The covering is chinacote and not resistant to the fuel. Insuline injector needle has very fine pipe and useful for applying thin CA.After the CA dried the fuel can not disturb the film. Other way is using the clear nail polish for this situation...But it is not strong and YS fuel easily disturbs the nail polish...

Hope I can explained...

Best Regards

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/10/2009 7:21 PM   
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Status: offline 		Sorry for bringing up an old thread but this seems to be the best place for talk about the Osmose.

I have taken the plunge with my first Pattern plane and got hold of an Osmose. I have been flying scale and 3D most of the time and had a fly on a mates Spot on 50 today, well all i could say was, I want one.... The feel of a pattern plane differs so much from any other model I have and feels solid in the air.

Here is my setup :
Kyosho Osmose
Hyperion DS20FMD digital servo's on Aile,Rudd,Elev
Sturdy Futaba servo on Throttle
ASP .75A Two Stroke (gonna be a little noisy but I prefer the lighter weight)
JR/Spektrum Radio gear

I have one question about the Canard / Cananlizer..... Does it have to be used? Has anyone tried the model without and with the part, is there a noticeable difference in flight characteristics.

p.s loving the pattern scene.

L


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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/10/2009 10:18 PM   
Thinn


 

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Status: offline 		I don't see why you cannot fly the Osmose without the canalizer. If you are not used to flying planes with "razor-sharp" rudder responce, I would actually advice you to try without.
Using the canalizer, you hardly have to apply any rudder at all in knife-edge flight, but this also results in a very sensitive rudder during normal flight...

Normally, I fly the ZN Oxalys. Originally, It had a canalizer mounted but I chose not to use it.. I tend to push wrong rudder on too many occations, and using the canalizer would make it way worse than it already is!

Try without the canalizer and post the result here

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/10/2009 10:36 PM   
lojik



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ORIGINAL: Thinn

I don't see why you cannot fly the Osmose without the canalizer. If you are not used to flying planes with ''razor-sharp'' rudder responce, I would actually advice you to try without.
Using the canalizer, you hardly have to apply any rudder at all in knife-edge flight, but this also results in a very sensitive rudder during normal flight...

Normally, I fly the ZN Oxalys. Originally, It had a canalizer mounted but I chose not to use it.. I tend to push wrong rudder on too many occations, and using the canalizer would make it way worse than it already is!

Try without the canalizer and post the result here


Thanks Thinn,

I really really like the look of the Osmose without the Canalizer. I will post some pics and maybe a flight video when she is complete.

I have an onboard removable camera I am going to mount on her when she is complete so I should have some nice smooth in-flight footage to show off

the wings are together, just need another 12 hours for the plugs and fill to cure. All of the control surfaces are linked in. No probs so far so she is looking good.

L



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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/11/2009 5:44 AM   
lojik



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Status: offline 		I hope the OP doesn't mind me posting my build as i go as well?

I didn't get much done today on mine, I got the tail gear mounted, servos mounted on the wing and got the inner servos ready, o and worked out the location for the motor.

As I'm on a budget I am using a .75 two stroke instead of the popular 4 strokes. because of this the muffler sticks out horribly on the side of the plane when mounted inverted.

What I have done is aligned the mounts so the motor will be at 225deg from upwards allowing the muffler to slot perfectly into the pre made exhaust section. The only down side is I need to make an incision for part of the head to come out of the cowl, but its only slightly coming out and will give reasonable ventilation so it would look better than a 70 size muffler sticking down the side

I will update pics later tonight as my camera has run out of batteries :P

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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/11/2009 10:58 PM   
lojik



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Status: offline 		Well camera now has new batteries so I'll post up the latest pics.

engine mount secured and firewall epoxied, the firewall was a pain to get at but with some kiwi ingenuity and a long stick of balsa I was able to coat all the edges, I cant for the life of me see the bottom edge but I am pretty sure its well coated.
Wing servos are mounted.

finally decided to put on some decals as well, Not gonna plaster this model as I think it will look really nice with just some stratigiclly placed decals. Just need to find myself a decal of the NZ flag for the tail.

L


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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/13/2009 9:37 AM   
lojik



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Status: offline 		Its almost done, like 99% complete.

Just the engine to mount, Cowl to measure and cut and the CG and she's ready for running in.

hopefully only a few more hours and good weather will see this bird in the air.

Can't wait


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RE: Kyosho Osmose 70, Sort of build thread (slow..) - 11/13/2009 4:30 PM   
mart o


 

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Status: offline 		Looking good lojik

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