RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (Full Version)

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photoz01 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 3:22 AM)

Landing gear;
The landing gear for me has held up extremely well, I fly off gravel and have had to rebend the nose gear to have that slight bend to the front.
I have my dx7 set up for flaperons and I use a Parkzone 2200 batt and the 25amp esc. I can get her to lift off in less than 50 feet.
Kevin
MA



jfast -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 3:38 AM)

I was really considering this plane but after reading all these, now I don't know, Is this plane really that bad? can i put a different motor in if it burns out? How does fly compared to a t-28 trojan or a corsair? If it really is that bad, any suggestions on a simular plane . Thanks and happy flying



David Eichstedt -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 3:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kable21

Ya, i totally agree DNCrosby, I hope it works out for you. I have several of there airplanes (hanger 9 and so fourth) from little all the way to a big 80 inch wingspan Cap232. And yes it is a cool plane I will hope horizon can do something if not i wont be too happy but ill hope to find a motor out there that will work because the plane did fly well thats the only thing keepin me calm about it. I was fortunate at least when the motor quit it didn't turn into a bag of foam. I would highly recomend on your first flight to climb high right after take off and stay there at a safe altitude just to be safe, thats what I did and since it glided relatively smooth that gave me plenty of time to glide back to the runway.


We are working on the motor issue now but don't yet have a solution. Please stay tuned.

We tested the Park 400, both 3700 kV and 4200 kV, and found them unsuitable for this fan unit. Both of them heated up way too much to survive for very long.




Robbbie -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 4:13 AM)

Let me say that Horizion Hobbie is a great company. Purchased many great products. Parkzone F4u Corsair, J3 Cub the list is long. The E-flight F16 falls short in quite a few ways. Have seen David pop in, they listen. Will be sending my complete repaired plane this weekend back to Horizion Hobbie. It's hard to hold a company to @100 gade A products. Glad to hear a few have had success with the F-16. Boy I must say my wife was not happy when she went down.

RS



kable21 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 4:24 AM)

Thanks dave



WildBlueYawnder -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 5:49 AM)

Whew! Dave thanks a lot for your reply. I've been holding off commenting on my F-16 issues because Horizon Hobby has been real good to me with problem products in the past and I was holding out hope that something good would happen in this case too before I started whining. I was wondering why we hadn't heard from you when you've been so good taking care of other products? Comments were starting to get a little high pitched here.

Is the DF400 used in the SuperAirliner a possibility? I've never had an issue with them on mine. Oh, I just looked it up and it's an outrunner so no go.

The weather has been crappy here but Saturday is supposed to be 60+ and no wind so I'm hoping to maiden my F-16 this weekend. Hopefully it's a maiden and not a motor fry. I'll post video if I get the chance to get out.

This is the wrong forum but I have the BAe Hawk on order too. Do you expect it this month? The motor and fan are showing backorder. Are they all coming in on the same shipment? The pilot listed as an option in the BAe Hawk manual is a PKZ4414 but there is no such product yet on the Horizon web site. Are they coming soon?



albert -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 1:17 PM)

Boy am I glad you gave a quick response David. I put the E-flite park 400 4200KV inrunner motor in and it fit so well ……………….But at $55.00 a crack I think I will wait for your test results. Please don’t leave us hanging to long.

Regards Albert



bearcatf8 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 1:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Robbbie

Let me say that Horizion Hobbie is a great company. Purchased many great products. Parkzone F4u Corsair, J3 Cub the list is long. The E-flight F16 falls short in quite a few ways. Have seen David pop in, they listen. Will be sending my complete repaired plane this weekend back to Horizion Hobbie. It's hard to hold a company to @100 gade A products. Glad to hear a few have had success with the F-16. Boy I must say my wife was not happy when she went down.

RS

Can I send my noseless plane back to them ? I would gladly send it back ! I've flown for 38 years and never seen anything like this ! Bad motor ? blade tip rub !! I'm Mad as HELL and I'm not going to take it anymore ! No More Jets ,I'm going back to the Props !



DNCrosby -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 3:37 PM)

quote:

Boy I must say my wife was not happy when she went down.

RS

My Dirty mind just can't resist, but that begs to be re-phrased....

or else, Even if your wife wasn't too pleased to do it, I bet you were happy ![;)]



Robbbie -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 5:23 PM)

DN,

Very good re- phrase. When I saw the F-16 at the LH,S my 46 year old eyes lit up like a child. Just because the prom queen is hot, dosen't mean she is a keeper. Part of RC hobbie is re building after the crash. What I do not want to do with plane, is replace fan, motor, esc. The way the plane is designed, installing the ESC, and plugging in the receiver was crazy hard. Horizon can use my injured F-16 as the new test dummy plane.

RS



Robbbie -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/14/2008 8:11 PM)

EDF jets are diferent than prop planes. They can bea habd full. Give the Phase 3 F-16 a try. Sure Horizon H will address the isues. $ 323.00 is alot of money. Take a deep breath drink a beer.



topgun24 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/16/2008 3:09 AM)

I finished my F-16 today and put 4 flights on it. I wished it had more power and speed but it flew well. I flew at 1/2 throttle and glided by at zero or 1/4 throttle several times. I needed more elevator to get nice soft landings but all in all I think it is a decent flyer. (I have had and seen worse) I am hand launching without landing gear and landing on the belly in the grass. I was able to fly inverted and loop but I barely made it over the top unless I pulled a fairly tight loop. I have a Alfa F-86 Sabre with a jet screamer engine that blows it away. I will try to figure out what other engine I can use to get more performance. Horizon needs to offer a hop up engine because most are not happy without performance including myself.



topgun24 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/16/2008 10:30 PM)

I put 4 more flights on the F-16 today. It flew much better than yesterday after adding more elevator. I am happier with it after getting the radio and throws fine tuned



wbojko -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 7:11 AM)

Glad to hear someone has some flights without motor failure, I don't fly my EDF's in hot temperaturs above 75 degrees. I get good flight times and don't fry motors.that way. I finished my F 16 four days ago but the weather here is bad. Maybe today I'll get a break today. I'll let you guys know if my motor survives.



WildBlueYawnder -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 7:23 AM)

Well I got the maiden in today and now I'm really sad. Not because the maiden was bad, it was great. I'm sad because this is a great little plane that few will experience because of the bad reputation it may now have with the motor problems. Hopefully that issue gets taken care of soon because for me this is a FUN airplane! I'm sure it's too slow for someone with a lot of EDF experience but I'm still in the EDF newbie group. I don't need a 100+ mph plane that you need to turn every 4 seconds just to keep somewhere close to the field. I have about 10 flights on my E-Flite SuperAirliner which is my first EDF. I also have an Alfa A-4 Skyhawk but it's been in the box for 8 months because of the time involved to assemble it. Hopefully I'll get to the A-4 over the Christmas break but by then I'll be working on my E-Flite BAe Hawk too.

I really liked my F-16 flight today. It was everything I was hoping for in a beginner EDF. Very smooth flying and looks really cool. Unfortunately, I don't have the promised video because like a dummy I rewound the tape last night and left the camera on. Dead video camera battery when I arrived at the field today! Next time.

Flight setup:
Temperature: 64 Wind: Calm Skys: Partly cloudy
Stock motor
Parkzone 1800mah 15C battery (from my Trojan)
The battery listed in the manual - Thunder Power 2100 (THP21003SPL) is 15C so I thought I was OK
S60 servos (as recommended)
AR6200 Receiver and DX7 Transmitter
E-Flite 30Amp Pro Esc set to 2 pole timing (Timing degrees options for 2-pole are 5 or 10. I went with 5.)
Gear Installed
Grass field (hand launch and landed on the wheels)
Elevator 90% on dual rates
Ailerons 50% on dual rates
Balanced at the tail of the recommended range (because of so many reports of nose heavy flights)
My E-Flite power meter showed 22 amps at full throttle on the bench prior to the first flight.
I had a mostly white sky background with patches of blue sky.

What I learned:
I was setup with the gear expecting to maiden at a local parking lot but ended up maidening today at my AMA field (grass).
My battery got much hotter than it has in any of my other models. I might cut a cooling hole.
If it had been warmer out I might have had serious battery overheating issues.
On hand launch the F-16 lost about 3' altitude after release before it had enough speed to climb.
Initial release was probably about 7 1/2' altitude.
Ailerons were plenty responsive for a first flight with no feeling of twitchiness (I had 30% expo).
At 90% throw I had plenty of elevator (also 30% expo).
Landing on grass was fine and it rolled out better than I expected (about 10').
I didn't have any trouble keeping the nose up on level turns.
I didn't experience a severe nose drop on turns as some have reported.
I didn't have to put in up elevator trim for level flight as some have reported.
It took about 4 clicks of right aileron for smooth level flight.
I didn't try a loop this time as I was expecting the motor to stop at any time so I was cautious.
The motor didn't stop until I inadvertantly ran the battery down to LVC and it started stuttering. I could not detect any overheating of the motor upon post flight inspection (sniffing the tail like a puppy as someone previously mentioned).
My Cellpro 4S charger showed 8% battery power left after the flight (normal LVC for my batteries).
I did not have any problem seeing the F-16 in the air or with orientation. The large blue decal on the bottom showed up fine.
The F-16 looked cool cruising around our field.
I had plenty of power to climb as I wanted. Note: I am not vertical crazy at this point in my EDF experience.
The dead stick landing glide was smooth and completely controllable. It flaired real nice prior to touchdown.
I didn't have a clock on it but it had to be 8-10 minutes of flight.
I only ran full throttle for brief periods. Most of the flight was 60-75% throttle cruising around the field. Figure 8's, etc.
Full throttle passes down the runway were fun.
I was nervous about the engine being a problem so I kept close to the runway.
I did some minor aerobatics (Split-S and Stall Turns) with no issues.
Our field is rough but landing on the wheels was no issue.

Issues:
The collar on the nose landing gear was pushed into the foam at the top of the ducting about 1/8". Now when the wheel turns the foam is going to get reamed out a little bit from the locking screw. I hope there is some plastic in there to keep it from digging in further. The connection at the servo arm allows about 1/4" of up/down travel so it can't dig in too much further.

Next time:
I'll use a 20C battery to see if that helps with the heat issue. I also have a 25C from my Blade 400 I can try.
Hopefully I won't be as nervous about the motor siezing up.
I'll probably fly it from the parking lot so I can get video of an ROG takeoff.

I really like this F-16 now that I've flown it. I'm sure someday it will seem too slow to me too. I hope the bad rep from the motor can be fixed (keep testing and find a fix Dave). There were some things I didn't like about it out of the box but after flying it they seem like minor issues now. We'll see how long my motor lasts.

I expect to have a lot of fun with it in the future.



bearcatf8 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 1:19 PM)

Wild Blue you are lucky and one of the few that have gotten yours back on the ground safely and for another flight.



WildBlueYawnder -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 5:05 PM)

I agree. I feel lucky. As I mentioned I expected the motor to fail at any instant. I still look forward to flying it, whether now or after the motor issue is resolved.



Sam77 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 7:32 PM)

I just had my maiden flight this weekend, too. This is a very fun plane to fly, however I noticed:

Steerable nose wheel - this didn't want to work regardless of how tight I had the screw tightened on the servo arm/metal bracket part. It didn't want to stay put. So we yanked it all right on the run way and went with a hand launch.

Inlet - I'm an EDF newbie as well, but the combination of the nose gear mounting area and belly landing really tore up my inlet. It's nothing that a little TLC won't fix, but it seemed week in that area.

Motor - Here's where I'm the most disappointed. My first two flights were fun - hell, I'll even say GREAT. I had a lot of fun with this jet. After landing from my second flight, I let the bird sit while I flew my Twist for a tank. I went back for one more flight on the -16, and mid flight the motor went from making its normal "EDF whine" to a sound that seemed like it had bound up on something and was jammed. This happened while I was setting up for a landing, so had the potential of being a sticky situation. I had enough time, speed, and altitude to throttle off for a bit. I did, and was able to get power to the motor long enough to get turned around, lined up, and glide it on in. Based on that fact, the stock motor is coming out. If I can't trust that the motor can handle my simple flying, what's going to happen when I get more proficient with the jet and want more out of the motor? I'm not thrilled with the fact that this is an Eflite plane, but not seemingly an Eflite motor (or at least Eflite quality).

So, with a little TLC, I'll be ready to burn up the skies again, but before doing that, I'm on the prowl for a more reliable power plant AND start building my Phase 3. :)

-Sam



DNCrosby -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 8:02 PM)

I'm still waiting for MY LED light kit to get here [:o] but I went to the hobby store to get an extra battery, and the battery they sold me was a bit bigger (2100mah) and 30C than the Align (2100mah) 20C that I had done all my testing with, once I got to the field(Flew my Fokker DR1), I happened to talk to some people who had this model, and were very friendly, and kind enough to share some insights, so I will reciprocate, and share what I heard. I will hopefully get to test fly next weekend...

For one I was told the 1800mah batteries work better due to the nose heavy nature of this plane. as well as moving the battery as far back as possible.
Also to try and correct for the nose heavy nature he told me he added 2oz of lead to the rear near the exhaust. This was again to correct for the nose being heavy and dipping during turns.
When I was talking to him about the motor burning up, he sated that he had two planes(Eflite F16 400) and neither had burned the motor, I neglected to ask him how many times he flew it.

We also got to talking about the new Hoffman Magnetics Motors, and how they're supposed to be better, lighter, more powerful, and have less power drain. I can't vouch for any of those statements, but I did some research, and they are here (locally) to me (Southern California), and have some impressive videos on youtube. Which as we all know from the e-flite video is not necessarily the performance you end up with once shipped. I will say though that once the motor fries, this will be the first setup I will try.

Link to Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5lTr-G92o&feature=related



kable21 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/17/2008 8:06 PM)

Hey does anyone know if I get Don's 4800kv wicked motor will work on the stock fan unit or what unit will work the simpilest and with the Eflite 30 amp pro ESC with my 3S 2600 Pro lite???



topgun24 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/18/2008 3:28 AM)

Horizon told me today that the stock 400 brushless inrunner motor is 3,850 kv - I have a 4,000 kv outrunner from another electric jet but I don't think it would make much difference. I am still searching for another motor to use. Anybody else have any luck? I Fly turbines and am just looking for an electric to fly at the school yard so even though it flew OK and was fun I would like more vertical!!!



WildBlueYawnder -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/18/2008 4:17 AM)

It looks like the new E-Flite BAe Hawk would be something you would be interested in. I have one on order.



Sam77 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/18/2008 4:41 AM)

My 'jet mentor' is suggesting this one: http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=7_76_77&products_id=1828

It should give me the pep I'm hoping for in this nice flying jet. It's on order and I shall start the gutting process soon.



WildBlueYawnder -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/18/2008 5:01 AM)

I'll be interested to hear how it works out. Are you going to use the stock fan or something else? If you can please post all parts you had to use that aren't stock (fan, number of blades, fan adapter used, how the fan is mounted to the motor, etc). It looks like that motor has short leads so you may be adding wire. I can't tell for sure from the picture.

I'm sure I'll be looking for a different power setup in the future.

Hood River isn't that far away. We may need a jet flyin some day. Have you been to the McMinneville Air and Space Museum? They have an asphalt R/C runway there. It's a fun place to get your fill of full size and R/C aviation.



Sam77 -> RE: ***** New E Flite F16 400 DF (Thunderbird Scheme) ***** (11/18/2008 5:04 AM)

Will do. He's saying I should be able to bolt up to the stock fan unit or slap in a GWS EDF64. Depending upon what seized on flight #3, I may swap the fan. He'll help me get it set up right and I'll let you know what non-eFlite tweaks I do.

And yes, I've been down there. I love blowing a whole day wondering around in there. I've not flown from their field, but it's a beautiful one. I'm part of the Dusters club out of Woodburn, so I'm spoiled on their nice grass runway.

-EDIT-

So I just pulled the guts out of this in anticipation of the new gear and thought I would post my findings as well as show my inlet damage:




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