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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> "1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes >> RE: Going electric
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RE: Going electric - 9/1/2008 1:52:58 PM   
digital_trucker



Posts: 1311
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Dorr, MI, USA
Status: offline 		DeviousDave; I appreciate the offer, but it's really not necessary. I can run a 1/2A engine, but that's not the point of this thread; the point of this thread is that running 1/2A seems more and more like polishing a turd and declaring it to be a pearl.

Remby; The Sig 1/2A fuel isn't too bad, being 20% oil and 1/2 Klotz 1/2 castor. Fuel is going to be an issue, though....like most things I suspect once the price goes up (for whatever reason) it's not likely to come back down again.

So, sounds like the way to go might be to set up a website containing something like a mission statement?

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       Post #: 76

RE: Going electric - 9/1/2008 3:07:57 PM   
gkamysz


 

Posts: 1808
Joined: 6/24/2003
From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: online 		Peter is 100% correct here. Existing manufacturers could absorb such costs quite easily. OS could easily sell thousands in the distribution chain before anyone even got one into a model. But I think the Japanese culture precludes them from making "toys". They are known for making precision engines. Small electrics took years to catch on in Japan, they were viewed as toys in a country that takes it's hobbies very seriously. If you've seen a Japanese RC magazine you know what I mean.

I have a Picco 0.8cc car engine. It is FABULOUS. The workmanship and design is second to none. It's a $200 USD engine, however. ABC, bearings, two needle slide carb, conrod with bushings, o-ring sealed back plate, even a drilled wrist pin and wire circlips.

The US is the largest hobby market in the world. If you can't sell it in the US you can't sell it anywhere else. Likewise, if it costs too much in the US, it will cost too much elsewhere. Right now the Chinese suppliers are having a hard time with US distributors. The exchange rate has changed against them in the past couple years by 25%, and distributors are not willing to pay more for the same product. So some manufacturers are actually losing money when they ship product. This gives the manufacturers no incentive to make improvements, they need to cut costs. In reality just negotiating a new contract for supplying the exact same AP .061 today would probably raise the street price to $60-70USD. Hobby People already lists them at $50. I thought they went for $40 not too long ago?

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Greg

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       Post #: 77

RE: Going electric - 9/1/2008 3:17:24 PM   
eroc144



Posts: 500
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Downingtown, PA, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: gkamysz
I have a Picco 0.8cc car engine. It is FABULOUS. The workmanship and design is second to none. It's a $200 USD engine, however. ABC, bearings, two needle slide carb, conrod with bushings, o-ring sealed back plate, even a drilled wrist pin and wire circlips.


What's it weigh and can you use it in a plane?

EG


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       Post #: 78

RE: Going electric - 9/1/2008 3:35:12 PM   
gkamysz


 

Posts: 1808
Joined: 6/24/2003
From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: online 		I weighed it at 86g with the big and heavy carb, less the giant heat sink head, without any muffler. It needs an airplane size head, a prop drive washer, and some way to hold props on as the shaft is very short. I expect it to be pipe timed for about 25-35kRPM. I didn't check timing numbers, and there is no operating range or HP specified. I have not run it yet. Maybe soon.

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       Post #: 79

RE: Going electric - 9/1/2008 4:32:02 PM   
Remby


 

Posts: 628
Joined: 11/2/2002
From: Russell, PA, USA
Status: offline 		D.T.;
Website will work. I do NOT like Klotz in 1/2a fuel, for a Cox engine.

Anyway, you could tout the low Carbon footprint of these class of engines, many would be attracted to this right now.

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       Post #: 80

RE: Going electric - 9/1/2008 11:13:57 PM   
digital_trucker



Posts: 1311
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Dorr, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Web help needed, plans are starting to form for a 1/2A society. I know zip-point-diddly about interweb stuff. PM me if you can help.

Anyone else who wants to contribute is more than welcome, in fact I'm going to start a new thread devoted to the concept.

< Message edited by digital_trucker -- 9/1/2008 11:16:13 PM >

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       Post #: 81

RE: Going electric - 9/3/2008 5:09:58 PM   
portablevcb


 

Posts: 31
Joined: 8/5/2003
From: Tijeras, NM, USA
Status: offline 		Well, a nice discussion on the problems of small IC engines vs the flexibility of electrics.

I have made a transition back to IC with the purchase and testing of a PAW .06 Yes, it was a pain to try to start by hand. So, I made up a little electric starter. Sp400 motor, 3:1 gearbox and 2s Lipo power. It starts up the little .06 every time. Once warm and set it can be hand flipped. Price is a bit high, but, I figure it will last forever.

But, now I have a motor and have to find a plane to fit it. In electric I find a plane, then have a ton of choices of power for it, adjusting motor, battery and prop to suit. And a full electric setup costs less than $100 (including battery, esc, motor and prop), so, the well over $100 price for the diesel is a bit more.

Just a change in state of mind. I find a plane that I'd like, but, it's too large/heavy. Find another one and it's too small/light. Oh well. At least I've narrowed my choice down to 4

So, there are some of us who are migrating from electric back to IC, even little stuff.

charlie

(in reply to digital_trucker)
       Post #: 82

RE: Going electric - 9/4/2008 6:19:59 PM   
vicman



Posts: 6451
Joined: 12/8/2002
From: Valdese, NC, USA
Status: offline 		DT, whatever happened to the engine you and the guy from South Carolina and Patrick were building???

My feeling is embrace what works best. You don't see too many electric guys out there longing for a speed 400 can motor and alkaline batteries worth a dang do ya?
I am lucky to have a cox and norvells that work decent, I'm not in a hurry to re-invent any wheels. If I can afford one and it works good I'll buy one...if I need/want one.


quote:

Nothing is impossible when you don''t know what you''re talking about
I love that!!!


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       Post #: 83

RE: Going electric - 12/2/2008 3:23:09 AM   
E-Challenged



Posts: 245
Joined: 9/3/2002
From: Garden Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		At my peak of expertise with Cox Tee Dees, in the 70's, I could go to the field and expect to get three to five good flights with no problems. Of course such reliability was based on periodic teardown and micro cleaning of all the orifices, removal of castor oil varnish from cylinder walls and periodic tightening of piston rod ball joints. My scale models didn't retain their fresh look for very long, hot fuel is a good solvent. Never had much success with R/C throttles on Cox engines, idles weren't very slow and transition often resulted in flame outs. Later I moved on to .40 engines that required less maintenance and were more reliable flying my Mark's Models Fun P51's. We lost Mile Square Park, continued flying at El Toro until we lost that too. I finally got into electric power and found ot to be a lot more practical for smallish scale models. I recently acquired a bunch of Fox 40 plain bearing engines and may give greasy loud stuff a whirl again. Still have some NIB Marks Models kits from Ebay that I was intending to electrify.

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       Post #: 84

RE: Going electric - 12/2/2008 4:10:21 AM   
gabe200


 

Posts: 312
Joined: 1/11/2004
From: baltimore, MD, USA
Status: offline 		ill take a glow engine over electric any day to many problem with batteries i fly a couple of electrics now but i just love 1/2a planes a lot cheaper than buying expensive batteries that only last a year its just the way i feel

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       Post #: 85

RE: Going electric - 12/2/2008 4:28:05 AM   
combatpigg



Posts: 10136
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		You tell'em Gabe!
When you're truly addicted to 1/2A glow, the electric evangelists can preach all they want, but it won't matter. I've seen some awesome 3D displays with small electric that 1/2A will never do. I've seen small electric speed planes go faster with less drag, etc.. The list of advantages of electric seems endless.
I just get a thrill from 1/2A glow that is missing when I try electric.

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RE: Going electric - 12/2/2008 5:39:46 AM   
Max_Power



Posts: 102
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I lurk here a lot more than I speak up..But I'm always watching,lol. This whole deal kinda makes me think of another mechanical hobby I had for a while that I actually gave up because honestly a industrial "revival" ruined it for me(H-D motorcycles). H-D was all but gasping for a last breath in the early 80's...Even sold out to a bowling company?!(AMF). I don't know when it all the sudden it became "Cool" and everybody and his brother started cranking out billet parts and Taiwana-chrome parts for $40,000 "choppers"(I thought choppers were about stripping parts, not adding chrome and billet aluminum?) But thats what ruined it for me. I kicked a 80 inch shovel till my lungs burned on a cold morning, cause I knew it was a poor design, would leak anything put into it, shake a light bulb to death every 50 miles, have some metal shavings in the oil tank at the end of the day,give me bruised kidneys from the rigid frame,and likely not bring me home on the same set of points, or with 1/2 the oil I left with because when it DID work out great I felt fufilled and like I had accomplished something! If I just wanted to roll in the wind to work I'd have got a Honda! There are surely days when I cuss my .020 cox engines because they wont burn a full tank without flaming out, But If I've learned one thing from being a mechanic for a living..Its that machines dont set out to ruin your day, If you cant make it work its all about you and what you havent figured out yet. Don't get me wrong ...Lots of machines/engines/whatever still "eat my lunch" from time to time...And I do have a "lekky" or two. But the pride just isnt there when I hook up my 3 wires and hear a brushless scream, or fire up my TT40pro. I definitely wouldnt mind seeing some better options in the 1/2a engine market, But convenience isnt why I mess with these little dudes....And I dont wanna ride a S&S powered softail with 6-speeds and a electric starter either!!LOL Rant over, Sorry to be off topic. To each his own. Todd

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       Post #: 87

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