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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> "1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes >> Going electric
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Going electric - 8/29/2008 5:18:18 PM   
digital_trucker



Posts: 1311
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Dorr, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I've had it up to my eyeballs with small engines. There's not a single one available to buy that is both RELIABLE, POWERFUL, and designed for standard R/C flight. My latest foray into crap involved the vaunted PAW .049. What an unreliable turd. I know what some of you will say; "well, you just gotta know how to work it right." My answer to that is, if the engine has been pre-run, and you follow the instructions TO THE LETTER, it should always start reliably. I durn near wore out my index finger flipping this so-called 'gem'. I actually got it running a couple of times, but it's seriously lacking in power and consistency. Not to mention the fact that it won't start reliably.

The main problem with EVERY small engine available today is that people simply won't consider paying what it's worth (they have no problem shelling out big $$$ for an electric system, but still insist on a decades-old price). Until an engine manufacturer makes a modern, reliable, and powerful small engine (it's certainly possible) I'm not messing with any more of them. Unlike most people, I'd gladly pay $100 or more for a properly designed engine (because that's what it's worth).

It's no surprise that 1/2A has been relegated to a curiosity, suitable only for those with a deep interest in them. The class doesn't deserve anything better than that, and it won't until a fundamental change in the way it's fans choose to deal with the hobby.

Phooey, I've had enough of 'em. They're not suitable for someone who wants to actually fly and enjoy the hobby, they're only good for someone who'd rather spend their time tinkering with a cantankerous paperweight.

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 5:32:54 PM   
eroc144



Posts: 500
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Downingtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Well now DT, I thought you were a big fan of the AP .061?

Kidding aside, agree with many of "the symptoms" you've noted (although I'm less convinced of the root causes) and lately I've sold all but a couple of my favorite Norvels. The little guys are a lot of fun, but I'm moving into .15/.25 engines which is a meatier part of the bell curve, although not by much! At these "larger" sizes I can even contemplate such luxuries as landing gear, flaps, and extra piece of balsa here and there.

Of course it also means that I'll spend less time at my local school field and more time at the RC field, but that's not entirely bad either.

EG

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 6:47:03 PM   
Andrew


 

Posts: 1997
Joined: 2/4/2003
From: Murray, KY,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eroc144

The little guys are a lot of fun, but I'm moving into .15/.25 engines which is a meatier part of the bell curve, although not by much! At these "larger" sizes I can even contemplate such luxuries as landing gear, flaps, and extra piece of balsa here and there.


EG


EG –

I also consider the .15/.25 size range to be almost ideal. The planes are small enough to easily transport, don’t cost a fortune to build and cover and give good flight times on less fuel. Plus, as you noted, they’re far enough up in the power band to add a few doo-dahs without serious penalty.

The plane I learned to fly with had an ENYA .15 III TV. I had scaled it up from a .049 size Mayfly (currently on Dave Fritzke’s site) to a 42” span. When I saw it listed, I may just have to build another for memories sake – it’s quite utilitarian. I painted mine orange and called it the “Orange Bomb” – it was UGLY! My original had a Rand Galloping Ghost and hobby horsed all over the sky. If I put another together, I think I’ll have to stick with full propo this time.



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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 8:03:32 PM   
eroc144



Posts: 500
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Downingtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Andrew - I completely agree. Getting all of my gear in the trunk is great, and I'd prefer not to schlep a trailer to the field. Plus, I can fly 1/2a at a school yard, but not the big stuff... That said, someday I would like to build a fully decked out F4u Corsair with retracts, cowl flaps, folding wings, etc etc etc. It would look pretty neat next to an Ace Simple Series Corsair!

I just scaled up my .074 Pacer plans to fit a spare Magnum .15 I have laying around and start building shortly. The .074 Pacer flew really well and I'm looking forward to the Magnum 15's extra power. I have retracts and flaps drawn in, but will decide which way to go once I sit down at the building table. Cool vs weight is a harder decision when weight is less of an issue...

Orange Bomb, eh? The first RC plane we ever built was an H-Ray and we plunked a Fox .15 on the front thinking we were gonna scorch the clouds. Imagine our shock when it barely got off the ground, and in short order we replaced the Fox with an OS .25 FSR. The H-Ray was a dull cream color with burgundy trim, and if I recall it wasn't much of a looker either - Perfect for a first RC plane. I think we eventually crashed it into the river.

EG

DT - sorry to hijack your thread!

< Message edited by eroc144 -- 8/29/2008 8:04:41 PM >

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 8:05:44 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1859
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I'd like to respond - but I'm not sure which "side" I'd come down on. Two-stroke, four stroke. Gas, glow. Glow, diesel. Internal combustion, electric. Big engine, little engine. Good news, bad news. Pros and cons. Hate the Yankees, love the Yankees. Ditto Red Sox. Twiddle Dee, Twiddle Dum. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

But, "ye can take away my flea drum, but you nay canna take away my TD .010!"

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 9:15:20 PM   
mtntopgeo


 

Posts: 204
Joined: 2/21/2004
From: Superior, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, the present supply of lil' rc engines leaves something to be desired. However, my problem(s) aren't with the engines, ( Got several MP Jet & Norvel .061 's that start/run fine) but are more the result of my crude (poor) building skills. Trying to build a 200-to-220 sq in (wing area) plane for a .061, & reaching the 12 oz target is impossible for me (can't get down to 14 OZs). As others have metioned here, weight & size are real challenges. Finding myself playing more with my Enya .09 power-plants. Not too much of a challenge to get a 270-to-300 sq in plane put together in the 18-to-20 oz range. Yes, it's very tempting to go to electric. (Just looked up some prices) Tower-Pro 2409-12 motor PLUS 25 amp esc PLUS your choice of prop, = $18.75. Another $19.95 gets you a 2200 (actual reviews say its not quite that high) MAH 3 cell LIPO. Unfortunately, even though the performance is great, something seems to be missing when that set-up is pulling a plane thru the air. ................George K.

< Message edited by mtntopgeo -- 8/29/2008 9:20:56 PM >

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 9:15:29 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 10136
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		Umm, sorry but if you have good "field habits" these little engines are very dependable. Clean fuel, filtered in the jug, and you will almost never have crap in your lines. Next issue is a healthy glow plug and battery, easy to tend to this one. With Norvels, the muffler does want to fly off, just safety wire it on, problem solved. Using Hayes 2 oz tanks has eliminated many field problems for me, but the clunk can slide forward after a hard landing. Outside of all this, just keeping an eye on loose parts helps. The one single and greatest contributor to guaranteeing that I have fun with .049s is having that little Hornet starter!!!

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 9:38:20 PM   
soarrich



Posts: 2502
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: Middletown, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I know how DT feels, but I like to tinker, and since I've started playing with my PAW I've noticed not as may mosquito bites. I have always liked 20 size planes, cheap, easy to build, and the motors are easy to run.

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 9:46:54 PM   
digital_trucker



Posts: 1311
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Dorr, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Every OS engine I ever had was flip-and-go, not flipflipflipflipOWDARNITflipflipflipPOPOPflipflipflipflipflipflipflipflipflipTWISTflipflipflipflipflipOWCHflipflipPOPPOPflipflipflip

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 10:16:05 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1859
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Daggummit,

As usual CP is right . . . well less wrong than most of us. Every time I start cussin' the reedies (for example) I come home and admit to my wife that it was my fault for not doing - whatever. But I would never tell anyone in the Carolina 1/2A Crew that. So keep it just between us expurts.

FWIW, I use the Miller 1/2A starter without exception if I want the liddle engine to start. Even on my PAWs (don't tell Eric). Never less than 25% fuel with 20% oil (half n half). I try to use fresh alkyline (did I spell that right) batteries if I remember to buy thenm twice a year (just before Rog's events y' know).

Speaking of Rog's events, is there any truth to the rumor that there will be a special "attraction" (or should I say "attractionS" this time?

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 10:35:57 PM   
BumRC


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 8/27/2008
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I have had decent luck with 1/2A engines, but then I dont really expect a lot from them, so there is little room for disappointment. I just flew a Herr Aqua Star I built years ago, but never even started, with a Norvel .061 followed the instructions and it started fine (with help from an electric starter while the needle valve was adjusted). Now it starts right up without the starter. I even have an old plastic crankcase Testors which runs fine on 15% nitro. My main problem is cost versus benefits, I already have all the junk that goes along with bigger engines and do not like spending $10 bucks for a glow plug and $25 for a gallon of 1/2A fuel to support my little engines. I own a couple of the fancy "regular" glow plug heads, which work fine, but that is even more money on a tiny engine that could have been manufactured to use regular glow plugs. That said, the 1/2A stuff is still fun to play with on a small field and I treat it as a niche in my hobby, as apposed to the main part.

As an aside, I find that most 1/2A sized planes will work with a .10 with a little balancing. TT and OS both make .10s which are not really that much more than a .061 and use everyday glow plugs and fuel. You pay a weight penalty, but only the smallest of 1/2A planes are bothered by it and maybe those are better left to true 1/2A fans anyway.

< Message edited by BumRC -- 8/29/2008 10:36:44 PM >

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 11:52:57 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 10136
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		Bum, last time a placed an order, Nelson plugs were $4 each.

I run them on the same fuel I use with .40s.......mainly 15% nitro.

You get about 64 flights per gallon.

< Message edited by combatpigg -- 8/29/2008 11:55:49 PM >

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RE: Going electric - 8/29/2008 11:53:08 PM   
Andrew


 

Posts: 1997
Joined: 2/4/2003
From: Murray, KY,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: digital_trucker

<snip>.....flipflipflipflipOWDARNITflipflipflipPOPOPflipflipflipflipflipflipflipflipflipTWISTflipflipflipflipflipOWCHflipflipPOPPOPflipflipflip


LOL!!!

I understand your frustration, but your description cracked me up - still got tears in my eyes.


< Message edited by Andrew -- 8/29/2008 11:55:37 PM >

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