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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/25/2012 2:29 PM   
RStephen


 

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From: Oxfordshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hello Tim,Jim and All,

I am new too turbine models, I have a Boomerang Sprint with VT80 turbine. I also have a FEJ Rafale with VT80 yet to fly.
I have been following Jims Gyro experiments.

I have been playing with gyros on fix wing aircraft for 6 years. So far the best Gyros I have tried are the Futaba GY350/351/352 gyros.

These gyros are very stable when changing gains (unlike many others). I Mix the command channel so as to reduce the gain of the gyro while the the control input is applied. This reduces the corrections that the Gyro makes, but only when command input is applied. I have used this system to tame a model (Sebart Angle) in very turbulent air around trees, with wind speeds of 25-30 mph.
This same system could be applied to the Canard as you suggested. The Gyros listed can be used in normal rate mode or in heading lock mode ( prob what is needed here).

There is also a new device coming out, EagleTree Guardian, this has 3 rate gyros and 3 accelerometers in a small package, coupled with some very clever firmware. This may well be a better solution, its also a lot cheaper than any of the Futaba gyros at $75 (prob £75 here).

The gain curve for the mix for the GY35x will look like a 'V' giving max gain with the sticks centred.

Hope this gives some food for thought.


Thinking of getting a JetLegend Gripen for a winter build project, what do you think?


Best Regards,
Robert

< Message edited by RStephen -- 6/28/2012 11:16 PM >

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/28/2012 11:31 PM   
RStephen


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Jim,

I am planning to order a JetLegend Gripen. I plan to use a VT80 turbine, at full power uses 260ml/min so standard tanks probably OK.
Do you think this is under powering this model?
I have spent much time looking for a colour scheme and have decided to go for a sport scheme rather than scale. I do like your Red/White/Blue scheme and seems to be a good one for oriantation. Do you mind me infringing your copyright?

I'll probabaly use a GY350 on the nose wheel to avoid the wing walk problems that some seem to have. Plan to operate from a very smooth 120yard grass square, no obstructions for a tleast 500 yards in all directions, is this too tight?


Regards,

Robert



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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/29/2012 12:41 AM   
joeflyer



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Status: offline 		Hello Robert,
 
I'm sure Jim will chime in, but I though I'd offer my opinion.  A VT80 will fly the Gripen but I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy with the performance.  My Gripen weighs 23 pounds dry.  With standard tanks you'll be at about 27 pounds take off weight, so with an 18 pound engine taking off of grass will be marginal.
 
I think that one of the new 100N (22.5 pound) engines would be perfect.  I suggest that you look into the new Jets Munt M100X.  It isn't shown on their website yet but Gaspar has started taking orders.  It's an upgrade to the Merlin 100 that incorporates some of the VT80 features (internal solenoids, thermocouple, and rpm lead).  The ECU is still external, however the installation is much cleaner with only one fuel line and one cable connecting to the engine.  It's the same size and weight as the VT80.
 
I have a Jet Central Falcon (23 pounds) in mine and feel it's a good match.  With an extra fuel tank my take off weight is about 28.5 pounds.  Take offs from a paved runway are a bit longer on a real hot day, otherwise it's fine.
 
Joe



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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/29/2012 9:05 AM   
RStephen


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Joe,

Thanks for your reply. I am tied between trying to keep it light, using a total of 3 x 2200maH LiPo batteries, light engine etc.
I know of the M100X, I have been in regular contact with Gaspar over this, and the M140X (Due Sept.). It looks like the M100X will consume 10% more fuel at the same thrust levels of the VT80. I suspect though that I will get the M100X, just waiting for my Bonus to come through! (I am Not a banker).

What's the typical take off distance, I seen them land in very little space using high alpha approaches, and at what outside temperature (OAT).

Thanks,

Robert

< Message edited by RStephen -- 6/29/2012 9:27 AM >

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/29/2012 4:49 PM   
rcjets_63



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Status: offline 		Robert,

I see that you live in England so you shouldn't have to worry too much about high OAT I agree with Joe that a 100N turbine would be much better than the 80N. My bird weighs 25.5 lbs (empty) with the additional fuel tanks and smoke system. Until recently it had a JetCat P120SE installed (which gives the plane great performance); I retrofitted a P160SX though I think that's a bit overkill (I needed the 120 for another plane).

My takeoff distances are typically about 300 feet on asphalt and during "normal" temps but bit more here in the Phoenix summer heat. Your 120 yard square is a bit tight though it is possible. Joeflyer operates his in a very small area too.

If you are considering a Jet Legend Gripen, I suggest that you investigate getting one from Global Jet Club. Their version improves upon the standard JL version by adding some reinforcement in several key areas.

Regards,

Jim

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/29/2012 5:20 PM   
RStephen


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Jim,

Thanks for replying.

My question of OAT was really ment to find out what sort of density altitude you guys are flying at. We fly at about 80m (300ft) amsl, and typically 15-20C so airframe and engine performance should both be good. I guess I'll look at the M100X (or perhaps the M140X) and keep it as light and posible (no smoke etc), at least until I know what is posible on our flying site.
In the UK at the moment there is little stock being held on the jet side of modelling, people not buying much. I'll look into the Global jet club version, but I presume the carbon fibre additions could be added by me to the Jet Legend Gripen. I know of UK stock for the Jet Legend version, and this will be far cheaper than me importing one, a bit more research may be first!
Regarding Colour scheme, can I infringe your copyright?


Robert







< Message edited by RStephen -- 6/29/2012 6:28 PM >

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/30/2012 8:13 PM   
ron Sweeney


 

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Status: offline 		Robert, somewhere on this thread is a link to a you-tube clip of my JL Grippen. The model employs a Wren ss (18 lbs thrust) flying from a 150 meter grass strip. Unless you are looking for blistering performance the 80 newton turbine will be fine. I use the standard tanks and fly for 6 minutes. I have avoided convention and use fixed canards and this has partially tamed a quite demanding flight profile, (for me at least) Ron.

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 6/30/2012 11:39 PM   
siddus74



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ron Sweeney

Robert, somewhere on this thread is a link to a you-tube clip of my JL Grippen. The model employs a Wren ss (18 lbs thrust) flying from a 150 meter grass strip. Unless you are looking for blistering performance the 80 newton turbine will be fine. I use the standard tanks and fly for 6 minutes. I have avoided convention and use fixed canards and this has partially tamed a quite demanding flight profile, (for me at least) Ron.


Robert,

Id have to agree with Ron, mine on a P80 offers plenty of performance ... well for me at least ...

Scott.


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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 7/1/2012 4:19 AM   
rcjets_63



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Status: offline 		Robert,

My field is at an MSL of about 500m and the temps are seldom below 15C so perhaps your first choice engine will work for your conditions. I like having the extra power for the high speed low passes and vertical. Personally, I think that a new generation 140 is the perfect engine for the airframe...light with plenty of thrust will give your plane the ability to do it all.

I have a lot of respect for Ron Sweeny but I don't agree with fixing the canards (sorry Ron). When it comes to taming the landing charactoristics, mixing in an offset of 9mm up canard for landing (and turning off the elevator to canard mix) will make the landings a breeze.

GJC adds carbon fibre in the belly, engine hatch, and nose gear area. Yes, you could add them yourself and I recommend it, particularly in the belly and forward upper corner of the main gear door cutout. Save the money and do it yourself.

Regarding the paint scheme, if you are refering to the red/white/sapphire checkerboard scheme, thank you for asking and please feel free to use it on your Gripen. I put a maple leaf graphic on the wingtips and fin due to my Canadian heritage. If you'd like for your Gripen, perhaps you could change it to a crown, RAF roundal, or some other British symbol.

Regards,

Jim

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 7/1/2012 2:15 PM   
joeflyer



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Status: offline 		Robert,
 
You'll get various opinions on how much thrust is enough.  Responses will be biased according to flying conditions, personal preferences and flying style.  I'm at about 200 m amsl and during July and August OAT's are in the 25 - 35 C range.  I fly off of a 120 m. paved runway and on a hot day I use most of it.  
 
On my jets I like to shoot for thrust approximately equal to the dry weight of the plane.  If I'm on the edge I'll pick the bigger engine.  I'd rather have a little too much thrust than not enough, you can always throttle back.  On Youtube you'll find videos of Gripens flying with various engines.  I suggest that you view them and judge for yourself.
 
Jim,
 
A P160 in your Gripen, really?


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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 7/1/2012 5:39 PM   
rcjets_63



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quote:

ORIGINAL: joeflyer
Jim,
 
A P160 in your Gripen, really?


Like you said, I can always throttle back!

I installed the 160SX primarily because I needed to install the 120SE in my Reaction XL.

Jim

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 7/5/2012 12:02 PM   
RStephen


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Guys,
I agree that the Thrust levels should be equal too, or slight more than the models dry weight for good performance. Chasing 1:1 thrust/weight with full tanks and good flight duration adds a lot of weight from engine and fuel. I guess that 80-90% Thrust to wet weight is a good target. Any comments!

Ron,
Saw your video thanks, what is your Gripen's dry weight.

Scott,
I think the P80 is 19LBs trust and the P80SE/SX about 23LBs. I guess Ron's Gripen may have a sight advantage head to head since it may be slighly lighter.
any way seems to give reasonably performance.

Joe, As you say, every one has their own ideas as to what is good performance, and Trust to weight is not quite the same thing it is with a Prop driven aero-machine, since thrust does not (significantly) decrease with airspeed like it does with Ducted fans and Props.
But power to weight is important in acceleration and hence takeoff distances.

Jim, Thanks for the information, and Copyright permission. I'll use the same pattern but will change the colours slightly.

The Jet-Munts 80-140N class of engines do seem to have a significantly lower installed weight including 5 min fuel at full power than most other makes. This leads be to the choice of the M100x or the M140x. The latter gives more choice of future airframes, however larger airfames are a problem for transport at the moment. A Van may have to be on my list of additions/upgrades.

My aim is for a model with good short field performance and moderate flight speeds, I am not a speed demon, well not yet anyway. So priority is short takeoff and slow landing speed, best served I think by keeping the weight down, this leads me to favour the M100X. This seems to come in over 2LBs lighter than a P120SE dry.

I guess that the Gripen is easy to ballance without the need for lots of nose/tail weight?


Thanks all, Lots of good feedback.


Robert

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 7/5/2012 2:26 PM   
rcjets_63



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Status: offline 		Robert,

Good planning of the install will help eliminate nose weight. Typically I balance a plane twice during the build. The first balancing is done after I install any components where they have to go (either for reasons of size/fit, or accessibility). I then simply tape all the other components roughly where I'd like to place them fore/aft, add a few extra ounces (to simulate the weight of cables, clips, velcro, and component boards) and then start moving things around a bit to see if I can get the plane to balance.

Once the build is complete, I balance the plane the second time to confirm the installation plan worked. Sometimes an ounce or two is needed to get the C.G. right on. My Grey Gripen didn't need any nose weight to balance at 140mm.


Good luck,

Jim

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 8/8/2012 4:19 AM   
coolt5


 

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Status: offline 		Hi all
I have the a question about airpower Ev-sq.
I have one Ev-SQ and it dosnot written 1 or pro only EV-SQ and the programming card the E-Valve program card.
it not have a manual with it so I don't have any idea how to adjust it or how to make it work?

Plz Plz help I need it Plz

Thanks

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 8/8/2012 4:09 PM   
rcjets_63



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Status: offline 		Coolt,

Here's the link for the Airpower downloads. The current versions are a bit different but perhaps there is enough similarity to make some sense of it all.
http://www.airpowernet.com/twe/downloads.php

Todd at Dreamwork (Airpower distributor) may also be able to help.

Regards,

Jim

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 9:33 AM   
alasdair



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Status: offline 		My JL Gripen weighs 9.2 kg (20 pounds) dry, and has been flying for a couple of years on a Wren 54 mk3 rated at  63N  (14 pounds) thrust and, though I have always used hard runways, its performance has been great. It gets off easily, climbs well and it's fast enough for me.

Despite that, I have just fitted one of the new Wren 75 Jubilee engines (with kero start, my first Wren so fitted).
I tried two starts yesterday in the garden, and both were fine. I am off for a weekend's flying tomorrow so we'll see how it flies.  I'll be using concrete runways again.
I am not sure how the noseleg would stand up to grass runway operation. It is long and spindly and the steering/mounting pin has bent a couple of times. Once was when I ran out of concrete and it went onto the grass. The other was a hard landing with a bit of sideways component.

Incidentally, I balanced my Gripen during assembly at the CG point on the drawing.
From this Forum I learned that the published CG was way out (about 1" aft of what people used) so I put a second air tank and 6400 mAh of battery in the nose, plus one or two oz. of lead to get the usual CG which is fine. That brought it up to 20 lb.

< Message edited by alasdair -- 9/6/2012 12:00 PM >

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 6:21 PM   
ron Sweeney


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Alasdair, we met a few years ago at Woodvale, (SU 27 Flanker). I fly my Grippen off a grass runway with a Wren ss (61 hrs and still sweet). I gave up on the scale nose leg and substituted this for a trailing link sprung strut which, although not scale, handles my High alpha 'dump it down' landings well. I even had my pal make a slotting jig to reproduce the oleo in ht. steel but I gave up in the end. Great model and quite demanding on one's flying skills which frequently finds me lacking. Ron.

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 8:12 PM   
siddus74



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Status: offline 		Alasdair,

I had numerious issues with my gripen noseleg ....I too substituted the long spindley nose leg for a trailing link version that is more robust. I was having issues with mine just going over rough concrete / tarmac joins and small grass tuffts ... the last straw was an off rough experience after a fast taxi back that bent pin ..

I would change it ... mines 23lbs wet ...

Scott.


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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 8:16 PM   
alasdair



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Status: offline 		Hi Ron, I remember your Su27 with the single engine cunningly hidden, but accessible.
And Scott, going to Elvington in October?

Where did you chaps get the trailing link strut?  Any other mods needed to hide it away when retracted?

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 8:56 PM   
siddus74



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Status: offline 		Alasdair,

May possibly be attending Elvington, but not with the Gripen .... It needs replacement Pins on the retracts, I had Titianium pins sorted, but they seem to be worse than the Hardened steel ones ...

If I go Ill take my Starfighter ..

I had to remount the steering servo to make room for the trailing link but nothing to difficult, it wasnt for the shockingly poor quality of the Skymaster retracts this model would have had so many more flights ...

I had a mate make my one, he did and ace job .... £35 including the wheel!

One of it flying with the old leg ... just to prove to myself it does fly ...

Scott.



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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 9:16 PM   
ron Sweeney


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Scott and Alastair, Glad I'm not the only one to experience problems with the slotted oleos.
Scott, you will have already discovered that titanium is not really suitable for the side forces experienced during landings. I have been using HT steel bolts now for a long time.
Alastair, I have found the main gear trailing link oleos are better suited than the purpose designed nose struts. I bought a pair second hand/new off the JMA calssified site. I have a spare which you can try/borrow if you would like to try it. Ron.

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/6/2012 10:03 PM   
joeflyer



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Status: offline 		I have the Large Tandem Nose Strut from Dreamworks on my Gripen.  It works quite well and looks somewhat scale.
http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/large-nose-strut-tandem-p-22.html  
 
Joe

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 9/9/2012 3:37 PM   
Pierre Fouche


 

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What a smart plane, if pump the wheels hard. I scratched my nose the last time due to low air pressure in the mains tires. Ran all over the runway and into grass at full blast. So I am painting and preparing for our Oudshoorn Scale event on the end of September. Great event here in South Africa. Looking forward to take the Gripen and an Avonds Rafale. Bothe with P80 turbines.
I have a normal 12 mm pin nose gear on the Gripen turning on a 6mm shaft made from a 6mm hex bolt on the lathe. I bent and replaced the turning shaft 2 times. Rather better to replace the pin shaft than the landing gear plate. I was lucky to have no damage on the fuselage.

Fly safe and save your plane.
Pierre


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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 10/13/2012 10:00 PM   
NRTM


 

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From: Tjörn, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi.

Here is some news about our 1/6 project.
Now it is "only" one round with filler and sanding left on the fuse before finishpaint (solid white) .After that the lines and rivets.

regards
Niclas R

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RE: JAS-39 Gripen Owners/Build Thread - 10/14/2012 12:26 AM   
rcjets_63



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Status: offline 		Thanks for posting new photos of your 1/6th Gripen. It's looking great so please keep us up to date on your progress. Also, be sure to mold an extra one for me as I would love to have a kit.

Regards,

Jim

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