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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/14/2012 10:12 PM   
luckymacy


 

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Status: offline 		For Pattern flying, what are the high and low rates you are using? The manual only gives low rates (20% aileron and elevator and 30% rudder) and they seem actually high to me for a low rate.

thx.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/14/2012 10:32 PM   
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Status: offline 		I used about 7 degrees for pattern. Maybe 10 degrees for high rate. I found the rates in the manual very aggressive.

I think I used 90% of full throw for rudder with a lot of expo.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/14/2012 11:04 PM   
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Status: online 		Yeah, I did something similar, I'm probably getting close on the aileron for my snap condition.

If I get excited I'll throw a meter at the plane and post my throws.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/15/2012 9:59 PM   
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Status: offline 		How do I troubleshoot an electric plane when I don't have any parts to swap out? I bought a used Sebart Wind 110 I which supposedly has new Hacker A50-16L V2 (it does look shiny new and 'spotless') and the same props, ESC and battery packs that the plane supposedly flew with in competitions. In other words, it should have been a perfectly working set already installed.

What would you expect to see/hear under the following scenario.

I took it out for a fist flight (for me) today. I had a amp meter installed and was doing a ground check. I do not have any experience with setups this large (8s) so was proceeding extra cautiously. Anytime on the ground I got near 30 amps the motor made a screetch sound and shut down. I removed the back support plate as I was suspicious it was causing some drag/binding but it made no difference. In my smaller electric planes that's usually been due to over speeding or not enough load on the motor (ie, the sound doesn't happen when actually flying, it only happens on the ground). I am hoping that the motor won't make that sound and fly fine but I won't risk flying it until I know for sure. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot or verify the setup is fine?


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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 5:59 AM   
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Status: offline 		Probably has something to do with esc timing and throttle end points. Using a different receiver may have resulted in a mismatch. Can you post the esc settings? It doesn't sound like anything serious, just some setting changes.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 6:02 AM   
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Status: offline 		DO NOT FLY WITHOUT THE BACK SUPPORT PLATE!

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 7:36 AM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		I had hundreds of flights without the rear support.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 6:27 PM   
luckymacy


 

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ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Probably has something to do with esc timing and throttle end points. Using a different receiver may have resulted in a mismatch. Can you post the esc settings? It doesn't sound like anything serious, just some setting changes.


No, I didn't program it and don't have (yet but am ordering it) a way to read its settings. I was told by the previous owner he didn't program anything either and it should work fine using the default settings. It seemed to work just fine at throttle settings up to about 'half throttle' which was pulling around 30 to 34 amps on the ground before it would 'screetch' and quit.

On thing I did read last night was that when using a separate battery pack for the RX and servos one should remove the red wire from the ESC from making contact with the receiver so only ground and signal have contact between the two. I just plugged his extension from the ESC to my RX and didn't notice anywhere where that the positive lead had been backed out anywhere from any of the connectors. I wonder if that might have in some small way be contributing to anything. Doesn't seem likely so not sure what to really do next. I don't have any 'goofy' throttle channel settings in my TX. Didn't look like there really was much to even change in the ESC worth changing in the first place from the default settings unless you wanted to add braking which he said he did not do.

Any specific ideas what that new info in mind?

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 6:45 PM   
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Status: offline 		What esc? You really need to read all you instruction manuals before you do anything else. I mean this in a constructive manner. You need to know how the esc works with your motor AND your radio. The throttle settings are in the esc, not the radio. Do not operate until you read the instructions AND can program the esc, or you WILL damage something.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 7:12 PM   
luckymacy


 

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ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

What esc? You really need to read all you instruction manuals before you do anything else. I mean this in a constructive manner. You need to know how the esc works with your motor AND your radio. The throttle settings are in the esc, not the radio. Do not operate until you read the instructions AND can program the esc, or you WILL damage something.



I have ICE 75 instructions and read them. There's nothing in the troubleshooting guide that fits the problem description. Did not see where you could verify what's programmed afer the fact w/o using the castle link. Given the statement that he didn't program anything, it seems safe to try and operate since the manual clearly states programming is not necessary either and the default settings seem appropriate to my situation and transmitter.

PROGRAMMING PHOENIX AND PHOENIX HV ESCS
Phoenix Series controllers offer users the option of changing
programmable settings. You do not need to program
anything to make the controller work. Programming is only
necessary if you wish to change the default settings or if
you wish to use advanced features such as helicopter modes.

http://www.castlecreations.com/support/documents/Phoenix_User_Guide.pdf

also, i read the hacker 50 instructions and didn't see anything that seemed to require any ESC settings either. Seems like it should all work just fine, just like it had for the previous owner.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 7:30 PM   
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Status: offline 		Motor timing, end of discussion. Reset your Ice75 to factory defaults and your problems are gone. Nearly 200 flights on mine, same motor V1), Ice 100, 8S. The combination you have works...

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/16/2012 7:31 PM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		Right, and its not working fine. So you need to learn about the parts so you can troubleshoot.

Is the red power wire between the esc and receiver unplugged (assuming you have separate ex power)?

You can change some settings with the transmitter. Set up the lowest possible timing and no brake.

You should set your end points. Is there anything in the manual for that? I think you power up with stick at mid throttle and endpoint set low. Advance to full throttle and adjust end point until you hear beeps, then do the same for low throttle.

You have to think about the fact you are putting a lot of power to an electronic device. Just because it worked for one guy who said 'you should be fine without programming' is not a guarantee it will work, or that something has not changed.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/17/2012 2:58 AM   
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Status: offline 		Went through everything today. I reprogrammed everything to the 'default' recommended settings. Made sure the throttle end points were recognized correctly and it didn't change a thing. The ESC recognizes all 8 cells on start up. There was one pack that did allow me to go to 'full throttle' for a few seconds before it cut off. I now recognize that there is an error message that was the same after all 4 battery packs were tried out. 2 beeps. Stands for voltage too low.

I charged the batteries before using them and have read that this apc 18x10 prop is right for the motor. So, any other things to try out other than ordering new batteries? Is 25c not good enough? I think I read more than one place that they are fine for this setup. How many cycles should one be able to get out of these batteries. There's a date on each pack and a mark for each time they were charged. None seem to be too old or over used that they shouldn't be able to run up the prop to full throttle on the ground.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/17/2012 4:58 AM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		What about the power wire between the esc and receiver? Can you take a pic? Also disable or reduce the voltage cutoff for now, maybe the batteries are just old and not holding a charge under load. That should eliminate the two beep error message.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/17/2012 11:40 AM   
Flyer88


 

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Status: offline 		Just bolted to the firewall, but my plane is a Helios 90
But the Turnigy 270 kv motor is great on 8s

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/17/2012 11:45 AM   
Flyer88


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: silva916


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyer88

Try a 50/65/270 Turnigy
Im turning a 18/12 or 19/12
With fantastic results.
About 2300 watts @ 70amp on 8s


HELLO flyer88

Ar you using the SK serie or the NTM Propdrive from Turnigy ? 

I use the older silver motor 275 kv but the new ones look nicer




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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/17/2012 1:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		Follow these programming instruction and it will work 100%. Just change the cutoff voltage to 24V for an 8S setup. This is for an ICE 80HV but an ICE 75 should be programmed to the same settings for a large outrunner.


http://www.f3aunlimited.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=page&id=13

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/21/2012 2:32 AM   
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Went through everything today. I reprogrammed everything to the 'default' recommended settings. Made sure the throttle end points were recognized correctly and it didn't change a thing. The ESC recognizes all 8 cells on start up. There was one pack that did allow me to go to 'full throttle' for a few seconds before it cut off. I now recognize that there is an error message that was the same after all 4 battery packs were tried out. 2 beeps. Stands for voltage too low.

I charged the batteries before using them and have read that this apc 18x10 prop is right for the motor. So, any other things to try out other than ordering new batteries? Is 25c not good enough? I think I read more than one place that they are fine for this setup. How many cycles should one be able to get out of these batteries. There's a date on each pack and a mark for each time they were charged. None seem to be too old or over used that they shouldn't be able to run up the prop to full throttle on the ground.


humm, batteries are not shot after all. Not sure how good they really are but the announcement of their death was premature!

I was too busy today to follow through with ordering new batteries after concluding yesterday the batteries had to be bad just based on that being the easiest explanation. The castle link showed up in today's mail so I plugged it in and based on the advise on the f3a unlimited site I was able to change what I think was the key setting. I was able to program in the ESC to react only when the voltage dropped to 24 volts instead if it auto detecting the number of cells and deciding when to shut down and I also change the reaction from hard shutdown to soft shutdown.

put the batteries on and magic happened when I ran up all 4 8s packs. I was able to get minutes of run time out of each one and the info from the data logger was good. But the more interesting news is that I'm charging the first pack up after it was run down to 52% of capacity according to the battery checker and this time instead of only being able to put in about 600 mah back in i'm now at about the 2000mah mark and still charging this 5000mah 25C pack so now even the charger is behaving as desired/expected.

One thing I see now with the logged data is there are instances of a time or two a minute where the logged voltage goes to zero. It just drops out. I don't know what is really going on but my suspicion is that the previous setting was having the undesired affect of shutting down the motor based on the random dropouts. You can't tell when observing the motor run that this is occurring now. It's just in the data.

does 6500 rpm for a 18x10 sound respectable in general for pattern combo on this plane?

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/22/2012 6:47 PM   
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Status: offline 		Can someone flying the Hacker A50-16L V2 motor send me a file with their ESC logged data? I'd like to compare the voltage readsings as a function of power and the amps drawn in general. Let me know what prop you were using. Thanks in advance! send me a Private Message so we can transfer your file.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/23/2012 2:48 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckymacy


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckymacy


does 6500 rpm for a 18x10 sound respectable in general for pattern combo on this plane?

that sounds kinda weak. I get 7-7200 on the ground with a 18x10 xoar, 8s futaba 300kv motor but that may be normal for the 270kv hacker. my power is good but I wouldnt be happy with less

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/23/2012 5:11 PM   
luckymacy


 

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Status: offline 		What are the typical root causes for a good quality motor, in this case a hacker a50-16L v2.1, to be running fine for 5 minutes then just burn up? Nothing was new in the scenario except maybe running longer at full power without throttling back as often. It was nice and chilly outside. The Phoenix ESC just beeped 4 times when the motor shut down. I could smell some electrical smoke.

I need to replace the motor. Just curioius, is there a Hacker motor inspection/repair location in the USA? Any opinions on a different brand that's pretty much interchangeable and suitable for a Sebart Wind 110?

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/23/2012 7:32 PM   
Bill Clark


 

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Status: offline 		sorry this thing is giving you a headache. I find it odd the motor has failed electricly from its own doing. I havent been keeping up with castles run of bad luck but I would be suspicious of the esc being the root cause. granted my a50 in my heli is 6 yo but it runs 200 deg and has for 100s of flights so I think the adhesives they use (or did) are very tolerant of high temps. when you took your 6500rpm reading what was the volts and amps? any chance the electrical smell is coming from the esc?

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/23/2012 7:48 PM   
luckymacy


 

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Status: offline 		no, i was watching it when it occurred. I saw the puff of smoke from the motor, not the ESC.

peak current, voltage and rpm from the run that seized up are 53 amps, 33.4 volts and max rpm was 6599 but mind you i was only recording at once per second so there could have been spikes out of those ranges not recorded. This 8s pack I was using is probably the 'least good' of the 4 8s packs I have in terms of remaining capacity as compared to a new pack. I wasn't going to fly with it, just wanted to do a range check and otherwise just run the motor a bit.

peak esc temp was 112 F with avg temp 93.

You say there was a batch of bad phoenics ESCs? ice 75 among that batch? How would one know?

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/23/2012 8:31 PM   
Flyer88


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry to hear about your misfortune with your motor.
It sounds like it's most likely the ESC. Try a new combination of motor / esc, sometimes they just don't like to work together and a lot of it is trial and error. I've had great results with the high-voltage 100 amp super brain from Hobby city it's been flawless for me on 8S I wouldn't recommend going over 8s though. Or a newer version castle HV80 works fine too.

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RE: Sebart Wind 110 - 12/23/2012 9:27 PM   
Bill Clark


 

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You say there was a batch of bad phoenics ESCs? ice 75 among that batch? How would one know?

 castles' issues are widely known. I hope they have it sorted by now but there was atleast a year of major problems with their ICE series controllers. the companies reputation took a hard hit, with that being said I have always used there controllers but have had 1 failure each of an ice hv80 and ice 100 (smoke/sparks).
its hard if not impossible for the motor to fail by its own doing (unless over heated) but it is possible for the esc to controll the motor in such a way to make it fail.
good luck. I've been down this road before and it wasnt cheap
running voltage for a healthy 8s pack should be around 29v on the first half of the discharge. 33,4 is about fully charged

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