Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help
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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/25/2003 3:20:23 PM   
CorsairJock



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From: Parchment, MI, USA
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Axtually, I think they've been going for a little more, likre maybe the $100 - $110 range. In any event, I realize that the Royal ones are going for more, and thought that if you were interested, we could work out the difference.
The Robart retract tailwheel needs work (mods) out of the package, and still is a bit of a pain to get to work right in my red box, so an alternative (especially a more scale one) is worth considering. For the wheel itself, I am using the old Klett/ Goldberg ones: very light AND scale looking.
When I complete the red box, and start on another Corsair, I intend to give painting a try. In fact, I am even cosidering stripping the covering off the one I started, and paint it instead, I'm ready for a tri-color one.

(in reply to Rocketman612)
       Post #: 26

Planned revised wing saddle - 5/25/2003 5:11:44 PM   
Rocketman612



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CorsairJock,
This is a photo of what I'll need to carve out to get +2 wing incidence. The dowel and LE of the wing move 3/16 in and I'll taper this to nothing back at the TE as shown. You said that you did one with +1.5 incidence was your measurement similar? Pete

Luke,
Worked on the cowl flaps. Your template was great. I passed it through my Xerox at 110% enlargement and it was dead on

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Re: Planned revised wing saddle - 5/25/2003 6:52:09 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rocketman612
Luke,
Worked on the cowl flaps. Your template was great. I passed it through my Xerox at 110% enlargement and it was dead on
[/QUOTE]

Pete, I forgot about posting that, didn't know what you were talking about! That wing saddle looks good, like I said can't wait to see it mounted with the new belly pan.

Another benefit to you is that it will angle the gear forward. The full scale gear were not canted forward either. They come straight down, but look to be slightly forward because of the incidence of the wing.

Luke

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 4:08:28 AM   
CorsairJock



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It's been about 6 months since I did the wing incidence, so I had to go back and check. I moved my dowel up just over 1/8". In re-checking drawings, it appears than mine is closer to 1 deg, and that to get 2 deg, about 3/8". I guess I didn't want to deviate too much from the plans.

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 5:21:18 AM   
Rocketman612



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CorsairJock,
Thanks. We are close. Here is how I came up with the 3/16. I suspended a plum bob over the LE with it at +2 then reshimed to 0 and measured the distance from bob to LE. Took 3 readings starting from scratch and it's consistent. Will start carving the bird Pete

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 8:14:20 AM   
JimoCooper


 

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Ok fellas...Y'all sound like you've had all the same troubles with the TOP FLITE Corsair as I have. Well, I have some things to add as well.
First, the wing doesn't create more drag because it has two more degrees of incidence. Remember, that the wing finds it's equalibrium...and the nose moves over. The tail incidence in a negative...that brings the nose over more. So, with the tail and wing in the same plane, the nose would be down...hence "downthrust". THe corsair was not designed with a downthrusting firewall...like the Hellcat. Look at a hellcat's firewall, and you'll see what I mean. INstead, the downthrust is a product of the wing incidence. The plane has UPthrust when it's at the "Tail wheel touching attitude"...that old hog nose is up in the air. But no lift being generated in that configuration. So, when the plane is up on "tail flying, wings flying, take off" attitude, the engine now has downthrust...because the elevator and wing have ZERO incidence....RELATIVE TO THE WIND, even though the thrustline is now negative two. IF you rotate the nose, to where the thrustline is now zero incidence to direction of flight...NOW you have incidence....that generates lift because you've changed the camber of the airfoil...and increased pressure beneath...as well as suction above. A symmetrical tailplane generates ZERO lift, but change the incidence 2 degrees, and now you have lift. Put the thrustline back down to 2 degrees, and the incidences are zero again. The wings...main and tail wings...will find their equilibrium in flight...until you place some kind of action onto them...like deflect an elevator. Then you're changing the camber of the airfoil, but not the incidence. Lift is generated these two ways...change airfoil camber, or change incidence. The drag which is induced is nil. Downthrust on a plane like the Corsair provides leverage...look at the main wings like the pivot point of a lever...with the stab at the long end. Downthrust at the nose brings the tail UP...which gets those tailplanes up above the wing wash...and gives them effectiveness. The Topflite corsair slouches through the sky...it looks like it's lazy...slumped in the backside. The incidence change lifts that tail back up where it needs to be, plus changes your downthrust. You can't really put any downthrust into the topflight corsair, because then you don't fit into the cowling centered at the prop hub.
I love flying the things...they're heavy, and boy, do they go downhill. Y'all are right....you can't get them slow. I initiate my turns with rudder...then am almost always on opposite aileron through the turns to keep them coordinated.

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 8:23:10 AM   
JimoCooper


 

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By the way...
I have plans for the Brian Taylor F4U-1. IF you're going to spend the time and money to build a "Top Flite", you can order the wood kit for this plane (84 inch wingspan) for about 300 or so bucks...and then you have the most scale plane there is. IF you can build a Top Flite, just give the Brian Taylor a shot...It's the most scale plane I've ever seen. I mean, they show you how to build a scale retracting tailwheel. Very impressive. The incidences and stuff are RIGHT ON. Brian Taylor physically walked into the air ministry museum in England, and got his hands on a real F4U to draw out these plans. Awesome. You can even buy cowls and canopys and such for them. Top flight people may have saw a picture of a corsair once...or maybe they watched a "Baa Baa Black Sheep" episode, then made a model!

Honk that nose around.

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 9:04:26 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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JimoCooper,

You might like my web site. I'll look at the larger Brian Taylor, I just didn't like his .60 size Corsair wing. Many are not interested in a larger Corsair though, hence all the work to correct the TF.

Luke

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 2:28:44 PM   
Rocketman612



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JimoCooper,

Thanks for the input. I felt confident that changing the incidence was the thing to do. Size matters for transport so an 84in Corsair may be out of the question but, I will look into it. The TF Corsair is my first venture into warbirds so we're working the learning curve from many aspects (Design, building, power, flying,etc ).

I'm running a pole for the best kit so your above comments would welcomed. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=799141

Petee


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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/26/2003 3:18:27 PM   
CorsairJock



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From: Parchment, MI, USA
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I got my figures by drawing lines on the plans. First, draw the (original) chord line (from LE to TE). Then, using a proctactor, draw another line, beginning at the same point at the TE, but at the higher angle (in your case, 2 deg). This new line will end up at a point about 3/8" higher at the LE, according to my measurements, thus the dowel should be 3/8" higher. Any mathmatitions out there who can figure it out a better way? And/ or, any other input? Obviously, neither of us is doing this scienetifically.

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/27/2003 10:18:25 PM   
Rocketman612



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by CorsairJock
I got my figures by drawing lines on the plans. First, draw the (original) chord line (from LE to TE). Then, using a protector, draw another line, beginning at the same point at the TE, but at the higher angle (in your case, 2 deg). This new line will end up at a point about 3/8" higher at the LE, according to my measurements, thus the dowel should be 3/8" higher. Any mathematicians out there who can figure it out a better way? And/ or, any other input? Obviously, neither of us is doing this scientifically. [/QUOTE]

CorsairJock,
Using a protractor with the center at the middle of the CG range +2 incidence comes out as a 3/16 raising of the dowel and LE. This is identical to the other method. Pete

< Message edited by Rocketman612 -- May 27 2003 6:24PM >



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Done!! - 5/29/2003 5:13:33 AM   
Rocketman612



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Here is the finished revision. Saddles sanded down and level. Old hole plugged and now hole drilled.

Question for Luke and CorsairJock. Do you think there is enough material between the hole and the edge? Force vector will be down while flying so I don't think It's a problem. The only time there would be any force up would be at landing and if the wing is seated properly the force is distributed along the saddle. Pete

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/29/2003 5:37:29 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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Looks great Pete, it won't go anywhere. Let's see that wing mounted!

Luke

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Horizontal Stab - 5/30/2003 6:17:02 AM