Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help
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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/21/2003 9:20:11 PM   
Rocketman612



Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm within sight of mounting the wing on the Corsair and have been building per plans. In another thread the issue of incorrect wing and stab incidence on the TF 60 kit was raised and blamed for some of the flight problems. The real plane has +2 incidence for wing and stab. Brian Taylor plans call for +2 wing and +1 stab incidence. There is about +1.5 washout built into the TF wing already and the TF plans call for 0 incidence for wing and stab. My question is should any + incidence be added to improve low speed flying at takeoff and landing as well as the scale looks of the plane.

+ stab incidence should cause the nose to fall while the + incidence of the wing should cause the nose to rise. Thus the combined effect should be neutral right? Also would such a change in incidence cause the plane to balloon or sink at different throttle settings?

Thanks, Pete


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Go for it! - 5/21/2003 10:57:04 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		This looks like an interesting thread! Pete, if you want the best looking and flying TF Corsair around go with the +2!! Go for it, I want to see how much it helps this out of date design! It's all been done before so I wouldn't worry about it aerodynamically to much. You are on your own with the TF kit though, because I doubt anyone has ever changed the wing and stab incidence! I'm tired of reading about how scale the plane is with no changes, eeeek!!

Do it!

Luke

(in reply to Rocketman612)
       Post #: 2

Just Do It - 5/21/2003 11:10:28 PM   
Rocketman612



Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Luke,
I will change both but will hold off to see what some others may have done. The search I did covered 843 threads concerning wing incidence and nothing was mentioned about any Corsair incidence modifications. Should be exciting. The wing saddle is still modifiable at this time. Pete


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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/21/2003 11:19:29 PM   
Juice



Posts: 870
Joined: 2/12/2002
From: Richmond Hill, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Pete,

Maybe someone can simulate the effects on RealFlight G2. It does a pretty good job of simulating these type of things. I'm currently out of town, so I can't try it for you myself right now.

Juice

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       Post #: 4

Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/22/2003 4:02:07 AM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4701
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		First, don't even think of flying a Corsair slowly.
That's the rule!
Even the lighter better flying semi-scale version that Dyanflite had couldn't be landed slowly.
Keep the speed up.

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       Post #: 5

Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/22/2003 4:31:41 AM   
Rocketman612



Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Tall Paul,
10-4 on the speed factor. What I'm after is seeing if the overall flight performance including landings and takeoffs could be made better by changing the wing and stab incidence. I learned the hard way with my Spacewalker what happens "Low and Slow" on final.

Juice,
Took your advice and dialed in +2 incidence on the wing and stab on the Realflight Corsair. The plane appeared to need less elevator in turns. Landing with and without flaps also took less elevator using throttle to "Grease" her in. Rolls were more axial too.


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Look any Better? - 5/22/2003 5:27:00 AM   
Rocketman612



Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Please forget that the picture is upside down. This is the wing position at +2 incidence. Pete

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< Message edited by Rocketman612 -- May 22 2003 12:46AM >


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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/22/2003 7:18:43 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Even the lighter better flying semi-scale version that Dyanflite had couldn't be landed slowly. [/QUOTE]

Always those that disagree, personally I think the Dynaflite Corsair lands slower than a Cub, I built 2 of them! I've never had to bring a Corsair in hot, but fast is a relative term.

Pete, that plane looks great, you are a fast worker!

Luke

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       Post #: 8

+2 Degrees??? you gotta be outta yer mind! - 5/22/2003 10:25:14 AM   
SKYBLAZER1


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Everett, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Been there...done that...it dont work.
Think about it...first of all I built 3 of these birds trying to tame it. The 3rd one was succesfull.

1)The first TF Corsair I built was too heavy...It flew good, but stalled on takeoff...too much wing loading, and my piloting skills needed more honing, et al when after the Corsair leaves the ground and she starts rolling left THE LAST THING YOU WANT DO IS APPLY RIGHT AILERON STICK! Use your right rudder. When the left aileron drops during this situation it spoils the ever so precious lift being created on the left panel. She was brand spanking new and after a very nice long takeoff roll I lifted her off beautifully only to stupidly stand there with my thumb on full right aileron when she started the torque roll to the left...it only got worse and I piled her up in so many pieces.So no matter how much right aileron is applied shortly after takeoff she will contiinue left roll because the left wing panel isnt creating lift anymore...but the right one is and thats why she'll continue to roll to the left...got it?

2) TF Corsair #2, Somebody told me they fly better with 2 deg pos wing incidence. I was all ears and as #2 rolled out onto the tarmac and throttle was increased I watched horrified as this Corsair promptly headed for terra firma...ending in a million pieces. Why you may ask? Well I thought long and hard...2 deg pos on a semi-symmetrical wing
is doing nothing but increasing drag, and spoiling half the lift! So when I took off, (we all know they arent really flying until after the first turn...building up enough speed, cleaning up the slip, gear up, prop unloads, blah blah blah.
Back to the drawing board...

3) Determined to conquer this abomination I took the advice of a friendly Top Flight technician. He told me that he personally owned one and his flew just fine like it was on rails lock stock outta the box!!!!! Boy was I ever excited!!!!! Everything I have said here is the honest to god truth! My #3 did over 100 mph strafing runs! If you want to slow it down just drop the flaps! Oh...you might not have built the optional flaps in...your bad luck...you really need them to slow it down. Oh...you didnt spring for retracts? need 'em...get the gear out of the slip reducing as much drag as possible...the corsair design is draggy...keep her as clean as possible...usually when I want to slow down I put on the brakes!!! Good luck!
Sincerely, Steve S. Helland, Nemitz field flyer, Everett, WA
R/C planes for 30+ yrs...lost count

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Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/22/2003 12:56:00 PM   
Rocketman612



Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Skyblaser1
Thanks for your input. Did you only give the wing +2 incidence or did you also give the stab +2 incidence as I'm planning? I believe you can't do one without the other. Also did you lower the TE as on the photo or did you rework the LE hight also with a new hole for the dowel?

Would't the changes made on on the simulator if catastrophic show up when I flew the plane? (general question to anyone who tinkers with their planes on realflight)

Luke hear is a pic of the new wing saddle. To get the +2 incidence I lowered the TE 3/8in (the easy solution since I use the existing former hole for the LE dowel). I was not confident this was the way to go or like you suggested deepen the wing into the saddle at the new angle. I will remeasure and decide.

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_____________________________

"Remember, all im offering is the truth, nothing more..."
Morpheus

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       Post #: 10

Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/22/2003 4:37:08 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		SKYBLAZER1,

These are the most likely causes of your flying problems, from the information I can gleen from your stories.

[QUOTE]1)The first TF Corsair I built was too heavy...It flew good, but stalled on takeoff...too much wing loading, and my piloting skills needed more honing, et al when after the Corsair leaves the ground and she starts rolling left THE LAST THING YOU WANT DO IS APPLY RIGHT AILERON STICK! Use your right rudder. When the left aileron drops during this situation it spoils the ever so precious lift being created on the left panel. She was brand spanking new and after a very nice long takeoff roll I lifted her off beautifully only to stupidly stand there with my thumb on full right aileron when she started the torque roll to the left...it only got worse and I piled her up in so many pieces.So no matter how much right aileron is applied shortly after takeoff she will contiinue left roll because the left wing panel isnt creating lift anymore...but the right one is and thats why she'll continue to roll to the left...got it? [/QUOTE]

1)Servo throws are reversed.

[QUOTE]2) TF Corsair #2, Somebody told me they fly better with 2 deg pos wing incidence. I was all ears and as #2 rolled out onto the tarmac and throttle was increased I watched horrified as this Corsair promptly headed for terra firma...ending in a million pieces. Why you may ask? Well I thought long and hard...2 deg pos on a semi-symmetrical wing [/QUOTE]


2) Somebody left a large piece of "terra firma" on the runway and you neglected to clean it off thereby causing the Corsair to hit same.


[QUOTE]3) Determined to conquer this abomination I took the advice of a friendly Top Flight technician. He told me that he personally owned one and his flew just fine like it was on rails lock stock outta the box!!!!! Boy was I ever excited!!!!! Everything I have said here is the honest to god truth! My #3 did over 100 mph strafing runs! If you want to slow it down just drop the flaps! Oh...you might not have built the optional flaps in...your bad luck...you really need them to slow it down. Oh...you didnt spring for retracts? need 'em...get the gear out of the slip reducing as much drag as possible...the corsair design is draggy...keep her as clean as possible...usually when I want to slow down I put on the brakes!!! Good luck! [/QUOTE]


3) All this sounds neat-o, but the design still sucks the way it is. I definitely wouldn't find someone who worked at TF for advise on how there plane should look or be set up. We are in a process here of trying to fix something, I already know how to fly. A brick will fly with enough power, having stuff in the slip streem is not going to effect the flight performance one bit.

If a symmetrical airfoil can't have +2 degrees then how does the full scale Corsair fly? MANY aircraft use positive incidence on the wing. My Royal Corsair has +2 on the wing and stab and it is a great performer!

Luke

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< Message edited by dionysusbacchus -- May 22 2003 1:04PM >

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       Post #: 11

Wing and Stab Incidence for the TF 60 Corsair Need Help - 5/22/2003 4:37:58 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		Full Scale:

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Re: Look any Better? - 5/22/2003 6:25:16 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rocketman612
Please forget that the picture is upside down. This is the wing position at +2 incidence. Pete [/QUOTE]


Pete,

The picture you sent me makes it look a lot easier than I thought it would be. You need to draw the outline of the wing on the saddle at the proper angle. In the picture below "A" would be a free floating piece of ply for the wing dowel until you get it all right, then glue it in with a larger piece in back (toward the nose). Leave the sheeting off of "B" so that you can get everything right and glue it all together. That is the way I would do it. Get out the dremel!

Luke

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