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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 10/27/2011 10:30 PM   
Paternguy


 

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Status: offline 		It still looks like the already built and flying Simla's are way more acurate. LOL

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 10/28/2011 9:39 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Gents,

So, this afternoon we did adjust and check the location of the seam of the canopy and turtle deck.

Picture 1, POV of the old photograph and of the new photograph of the plug of course are the same. Again the blue lines, all of same length.
When we make a top view picture in the future, I think we don’t see much difference compared with the original picture.

A canopy is flexible before mounting but, knowing the theoretical dimensions can be a profit when material has to be selected or cut for the best fit on the fuselage.
Have attention for the pilot and the AMA sticker. It will be an easy job to locate also these parts on the exact right position in the near future.

Still to do is prepare the plug, a detailed check for symmetry and sanding the surface so all grains are flat and smooth and….. hunting for material to make the canopy, low budget, typical Dutch.

It looks finally we have profit of all the preparatory work, there is only some small carving to do to make the photographs fit. Also the other dimensions of the fuselage and tail feathers are within very small tolerances we already did see.

Final compare photographs of mounted parts of course after the reveal of the completed Simla.

Picture 2, Hanna is excited, Why?
More to come, but not for Hanna, she thinks we are going to make a big mouse now so "Don't touch it!!".

Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 11/5/2011 11:00 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Gents.

In “The Champ chats”, in RCM&E of October 1962 Ed did start with: “The “Taurus” has been under development for several years. One of the results of “under development” is still visible on the photograph of the crate, the first successful Taurus on the right side, valuable for Ed and for us also to visualize the design steps in history. That was why I did redesign and reconstruct that Taurus.

I also did show the calculated Point of View, (POV) the original location of the camera, of which the first picture of the Flop, visible standing on the ground, was taken. see post 840 of this page:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7950207/mpage_34/key_/tm.htm#

I didn’t show a combined picture yet with the use of this picture, so here it is.
Comparing the reconstructed Oldest (successful) Taurus and the Flop in one combined picture, most side view.
The planes are equal scaled and we see the nose of the Flop is still some longer than of the Taurus. Much better visible, the tail cones. The tail cone of the Taurus already is longer than of the Flop. Later we see the plans of Ed and Frank Myers of the prototype of the first commercial Taurus and on these the tail cone again is longer. As often noted, to dampen the effect of the reeds radio!!

Some more details, Flop has barn door ailerons, less tapered wings (we have to take in account with nose length!) and the Taurus of course the strip ailerons. Also visible the thrust line of the Taurus, much lower than the Flop.

It isn’t strange we see Ed did use the first successful Taurus to design the Simla by multiplying the dimensions with 150 % because. There was written the “Taurus” has been under development for several years (Cham chats) and so the first successful Taurus was much more valuable than people think and a serious result of a lot of development.
It was also, already in 1961, by coincidence very well dimensioned to use with proportional radio with his too short tail cone for the reeds!!!
How do I know that? I do fly that first Oldest (successful) Taurus with proportional radio, no not “computer”, so no mixers, no expo or dual rate. Just the way Ed did fly the Simla too.

As a reminder picture 2, that same fuselage of the Taurus in the first picture compared with the fusleage of the first successful Taurus in the crate.

More to come,
Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 11/17/2011 9:01 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Back in time,

I am not familar with reed relais as was used by most USA radio systems, but for more than 40 years do know a name, Medco. Read it in the beginning of my modeling carriere and never forget. Medco tongenrelais = Dutch
In Europe audio selective filters were more familiar in the past.
I still have one if my scratch built double simultaneaous transmitters of the past, so equiped with two independent audio generators.

For the future back in time

I did start to reconstruct a 4 channnel receiver, and the coils are wrapped, 740, 600, 480, 394 turns. On the picture the coils and 4 relais. I do have material to make 10 coils needed for the Taurus.

Only the Simla was basicly designed for proportional and all other Taurusses for reeds, it's my goal, (one of!) to fly in the future the oldest Taurus on Earth with an old radio system again, just to find out how it was to fly a Taurus with the reeds radio.

The first step is the four channel and to find out the selectivity of the channels. If it will be possible to make 10 filters effective. If not? Reeds!

I do know the old German Grundig systems and the used circuits very well and so also their trick to make the 10 channels selective and reliable. It was never used in the Reeds systems because they were selective enough!!.

Wrapping coils for the cold dustfree winterdays

Third picture the Caravelle with the 10 channel Grundig, one of these was used in Genk 1963 with Orbit radio by mister Bignon while Ed was flying the Taurus (fourth picture).
It looks like a blown-up Tauri doesn't it?


Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 11/28/2011 1:49 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Headcam
Made 5 flights with the head cam , first try out.
I did record with highest resolution to have the Taurus in the picture, and the cam still has 3 steps of zoom.

All for research and to make video's of the Simla next year.
My profit is, I can do the job on my own, practising.
There always is the cameraman to make better video's after all.
Also not forget, the Simla is much bigger and flies with a (s)lower airspeed.

One detail to solve, sound!! Blowing in the wind.

First video first try out, only two low posiions of loops not recorded.
Pattern flight and a few maneuvers, inverted, rolls, double immelmann and loops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cljMs8OW-A8

Second video
Some turbulence of the tractor shelter?:
Approches and landings of 4 of the five flights I did make.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tkY6kIMai-Y

Conclusion,
Practising, practising with moving my head so I keep the plane stabile in the picture also when used one or more zoom steps.

More to come also videorecordings

Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 12/10/2011 7:28 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Taurus research.

Research is going on, also in winter. An overview of my "activity center" today. Two flights made to make the headcam videos and test the microphone.

Picture 2 engine preheating warning light is on, temperature of glowplug base is less than 14 degrees Celcius, to low for methanol to evaporate!

Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 12/19/2011 10:15 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Oldest successful Taurus on Earth.

There are still some activities on the “To Do” list.

One of these is mounting the monitoring system in the replica of Ed’s first succesfull Taurus, the Wester Taurus. See picture 1.
In page 5 we see the construction and preparations for the airspeed transmitter.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7950207/anchors_8192051/mpage_5/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8192051

Picture 2 of this post the important data and a small interesting fact to show.
Fuess equipment was widely used in the German airplanes in WW2, measurement of engine load pressure (Yes Ed did do experimenting too with (roots)blowers on a motorcycle!!)
and altitude instruments.

Google for “Fuess Ladedruckmesser”

For industrial usage there are still calibration data of which I do have an example and look that date 1961!

So all related, date of the plane, spring 1961 and the calibrating somewhere in 1961 synchronized.

Work to do, adding about 100 grams in the plane for data logging of airspeed, temperature, rpm, altitude etc

Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 1/7/2012 1:11 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Weather is bad, so time for development.
For the Simla we need a tool to analyse engine performances during testflying coming season and in the HP 42S I did implemented a solver program to do this for me.

Inputs are: barometric pressure (mbar), power (HP/PS/Watt), crankshaft revs (RPM), diameter and pitch (inch) and propeller constant (x). The solver program calculate the not existing value for me, for example power when all other are known or measured by the logger.

RPM and airspeed for example will be logged with the use of MODIS.

Static thrust can be measured with a force sensor and checked with use of a separate calculation program.

Interesting to see the Top Flite propeller of 14 x 4(!) does generate a thrust of 7lbs at a shaft power 1 HP.

To have an indication of accuracy I also will do the measurements with the Replica Top Flite Taurus because the IC motors do have the same displacement.

All to find the best propeller (dimensions and brand) for the Simla.

More to come

Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 1/14/2012 10:36 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Gents,

Before final shaping of the nose I did a final check of the spinner dimensions.

Picture 1, spinner of right dimensions, picture two, spinner seems to be too big.
Of course the original Super Tigre spinner would be the right to mount but at least I do know the exact dimensions now.


Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 1/18/2012 11:48 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Super Tigre. Micromeccanica Saturno

For positioning of the Super Tigre G60 the dimensions already were compared with these of the original vintage engine. The modern engine is a few milimeters shorter so can be fit on the right place when observing the cilinder. To have the propeller in same position I will place the spacer disk with the magnets for RPM measurement between engine and spinnerbackplate, see the picture.

More to come.

Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 1/30/2012 3:47 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		More warm and dust free activities.

I always have a calibration instrument with me to the field for a local check of the airspeed measurement of the Taurusses.
To limit the amount of documents to take with me I incorporated two more calculations in my programmable calculator.
First the formula to calculate the airmass/density, with inputs barometric pressure, relatieve humidity and temperature.
Second calculation of dynamic pressure, with use of airspeed and airmass/density.

Also these calculations I can combine with the "solver" of the HP 42S, for example calculate airspeed when dynamic pressure and density are known.
A provit of a calculator also is, I do not have to interpolate as we normaly did in the past with data tables.

The barometric pressure can I have from a local television and radiostation

More to come, but, preparations for field equipment for calculations are nearly finished now.
Next step is wake up MODIS again and that can be interesting because MODIS is asleep for many years.

Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 5/6/2012 6:30 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents,

I did receive more detailed pictures to show the results of ''downwash'' flights.
Next step is measure the downwash angle related to speed, also interesting for the Simla in the future. Pitot tube to measure speed is visible in the second photo.
Instrument to measure the downwash is ''under development'' now. Thes pictures will help me to find the right location.
More to come,

Cees


Gents,

A temporary aoa sensor, in that case a yaw sensor I did design for my glider. Temporary because I only need it to calibrate a rudder mixer. After finishing that the vane sensor can be removed again,

I discovered that it isn't easy to prepare such a sensor for low speed and high accuracy for a pattern ship.
A dynamic pressure tube with several angled orifices is possible but need a lot of electronics to calculate the aoa an accurate way so in thr refrigerator for a while........................ next methode,

Null seeking method, using external energy, can be pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, to rotate the mechanism and a potentiometer. Sensor to detect the position and "airflow direction" for example, pneumatic slots, thermal sensors, differential pressure, whatever you want.
An example of such an instrument, in the picture, also present on the Northrop NF5 of the past so I know the ins- and outs of this system.

Result has to be something like I show on the video, it is one of three null seeking instruments "under test ".
Still to do: long term stability, testing of temperature dependency, vibrations etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enLJP_97Jtc

Profit of this method is the low drag of the sensor element and nearly zero % hysterese while rotating a potentiometer for feed back of the angle.
For the Simla so when the plane is ready also the measurement requiments are available

Cees,





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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 5/14/2012 3:55 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		50 year Taurus in the Netherlands.
Terlet Arnhem, Deelen Arnhem.

In the past Airfield Terlet in Arnhem was the place to go . We modelers from the Netherlands did met each other on that central place near Arnhem
We did fly our National finals over there, the Nats of the Netherlands. (Official year modeling did start on Terlet was1964.)
Of course the Taurus was there and we still can see the movies and photographs of this period.

An example, Jan van Vliet, Dutch champion of the Netherlands and also flying one of the three Dutch Taurusses in Genk Belgium 1963.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tDKX6W_B9I


Saterday 12 May I did visit the nearest location to fly my Taurus, airfield Deelen in Arnhem.
Invited by Phantasy in Blue ( http://www.phblue.nl/ ) the Dutch group of modelers buidling all the planes of the Dutch Airforce we did shoot some pictures, 50 years later, The Taurus on a runway of Deelen we did use to fly our planes.

Distance to Deelen/Terlet, 3.5 km, Time Deelen/Terlet 50 years.

Taurus Flyer



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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 7/17/2012 10:10 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		So, cost some time but finally I have some more details for my "Taurus construction and flying schdule". The Taurus of Les Fruh, picture is of the NATS July 1963, see post 1 of this thread.
With use of this fact I can make a more detailed estimation of the development. More to come!

Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 9/24/2012 11:50 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Update of activities.

For flying the Oldest Taurus on Earth with the reeds (like) radio in the future I am developing a receiver system. The transmitter is prepared to expand to 10 channels without any limitation

See post 979, this page:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10815976

The four channel radio is finished and usable for flying. Double simultaneous over the full range of more than a mile. This was the first action.
More detailed information I do show is a separate thread in the; Golden age, vintage and antique RC forum, see : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11202553/tm.htm

Next step is adding of tone filters, 2 more needed for a Tauri and a second time 2 more for the Orion and the Oldest Taurus on Earth. That will be nice activity for the winter. The radio first will be tested during flights in the future in 4 channel models, gliders and a motor model, rebuilt of the past of my first motor model. Vibration test!

A photograph of the system is shown in this thread, the (proportional) servos are provided of limit and centralising switches, all electronics is removed.

A video is made of the test of the servos after the cupper contacts were replaced by silver contacts. Reliability is acceptable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGrL5gfweO8&feature=youtu.be

More to show in the future.

Cees



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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 12/5/2012 11:56 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Telemetry and monitoring, preparation for next season.

For safety reasons and research I need an easy handling 27 MHz monitor receiver and telemetry set.

The citizenband (27 MHz ,11 m) is used by a lot of people and it is interesting to listen for a period and observe if it's save to operate superregen receivers. Tone modulation does block most of foreign control inputs and worst thing that can happen is my transmitter being over ruled and the plane totally deaf for my signals. Using an auto stabile model with very limited fuel capacity is first choise for try outs next year
For pre flight listening, also coming period, I made a receiver to build in my cap, supply voltage 1.06 a 1.25V and current I < 0.5 mA. The round element is a crystal earphone.
On the photograph the receiver has a 200MHz coil for telemetry purposes. Telemetry is also "Under development". I can exchange the coil for a 27 MHz coil and capacitor for monitoring.

More to come.
Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 12/20/2012 6:40 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		For test flying the telemetry will assist me to have the right information. Ready is the variometer for information of an exact horizontal flight path during measurement of airspeed. Under development are an AOA sensor and stall warning with acoustic signalling
These signals all to combine with the 200 MHz telemetry link.

More to come,

Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 12/24/2012 7:56 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

So, cost some time but finally I have some more details for my ''Taurus construction and flying schdule''. The Taurus of Les Fruh, picture is of the NATS July 1963, see post 1 of this thread.
With use of this fact I can make a more detailed estimation of the development. More to come!

Cees



I translated the article of the Les Fruh Taurus, the reference as shown in post 1 of this thread.
The span of the stab and dimensions of the fuselage already were recalculated some time ago, with these added data so more detail engineering can be done this winter.
To complete this thread the text of the article;

The question of a successor to the Taurus must be on the mind of many multi enthusiasts and the picture No, 4 will profide some of the answer,
This is Taurus II by Les Fruh, Evanston, Illinois, as seen at the U.S .Nats. (1963 TF)
Basically it is a stretched Taurus. The nose and tail moment are longer, but there are other changes. The thickness ratio of the wing has been increased from 19 per cent to 22 per cent and the tail and the tailplane is also abnormally deep. The fin is very thick with a proper airfoil section and the wing has a swept leading edge.

With all these data it will be possible to create a detailed replica of the Taurus of Les Fruh, but first the plans.

Cees

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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 1/6/2013 3:02 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Discovering the secrets of the Taurusses!.

I experienced it before, during the range check we could use a 446 MHz TopCom Twintalker 3000 (portophone) set of 0,5 watt near the superregenerative receiver without any negative influences, even not when the radio control transmitter was at a distance (over ground) of 860 m.
So for me it was interesting to know if a real-time downlink also would be possible with the superregenerative receiver.
Results are positive. A 200 MHz transmitter near the reveiver of the plane doesn't have any influence, also not at the max distance of the control transmitter.
The 200 MHz downlink receiver in my cap is also normally receiving when the radio control transmitter is switched on and used by me.

It all looks useable, the tonefilter radio with the superregen reveiver and all added modern technical stuff. My safety system will be the radio tube transmitter with a plate(anode) high tension switch just as used by Kraft in the past.

The proportional 35 MHz radio with single or double conversion receivers I also can use combined with the downlink, I do this for more than 35 years without any problems, only point of attention is the transmitting frequency of the downlink related to the 35 MHz, so I don't use 105, 140, 175 or 210 MHz for example.

On the photograph the superregenerative receiver, battery and servo's switched on near the transmitting 200 MHz downlink during the test.


More to come.

TF



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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 1/8/2013 2:22 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		pd1 did show us the weight of the Duramite Bonner 2 channel servo, see post

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8117596

after that the weight of the Orbit reeds receiver known by rfj, 3.5 a 4 oz, see the posts on that page.

So, total weight of the radio of Ed's ship as flown during the contests of 1961 and 1962 untill he modified it to proportional must have been about 650 grams .

Because his reeds systems also were relailess these could have been lighter than my tonefilter system, expanded to the needed 10 channel
A reason for me to make a comparision.

Estimation of an original complete Orbit Reeds-relailess system in the Taurus
5 cell 6VDC NiCad 120 grams
reeds receiver 110 gram
Duramite 87 gram, but 5 times so 435 gram

Totall weight 665 grams

Estimation of weight of my scratch built tone filter relais system
4 cell 4.8 VDC NiMHi 134 grams
Servo's (modified) 44, 5 times 220 gram
Tone filter receiver recalculated to 10 channel 400

Totall weight is 754 grams

My system will be about 90 grams heavier, that's too much!
Option will be, build a new 10 channel relailess receiver.

I can also can save some weight, but not that 90 gram, by using a light accupack, I don't need these 2700 mAh.

To give you an impression of the actiradius!

Current draw of a (pré-brownout period) receiver is less than 3 mA, added the 50 mA when a servo rotates, simultaan max 2x = 100 mA.

So 2700 mAh is enough for a flight of more than 27 hours!!!!!

An airspeed of 100 km/h in straight direction, will result in a radius of more than 2700 km. That's enough to fly my (replica of the first successfull and) Oldest Taurus on Earth from Manderveen to Georgië or from Saint-Pierre en Mequilon to Georgia.

Looking at the dimensions in the fuselage, any relailess receiver, accupack and (modern!!) servos will fit in place without problems.

So, conclusion, it's possible to expand the radio and fly the Taurus witin the specifications Ed did during the contests in 1961 and 1962 before he modified the plane and used the proportional, see photograph 2, but for that there is some more work to do, so more to come.

Cees

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(in reply to Taurus Flyer)
       Post #: 995

RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 4/7/2013 12:47 PM   
Taurus Flyer



Posts: 2370
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Joined: 1/9/2004
Last Login: 5/24/2013
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Gents,

Pictures are all gone now, interesting to see if these will came back in the future.
I am glad I did make back ups because this thread is very valuable for me.
Uploading a photograph of the wing joiner of the Simla isn't possible now.

More to come

Cees




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       Post #: 996

RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 4/10/2013 10:08 PM   
Taurus Flyer



Posts: 2370
Score: 123
Joined: 1/9/2004
Last Login: 5/24/2013
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Test upload pictures.
Failed, so we still have to wait a while.

More to come.

TF

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       Post #: 997

RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 4/12/2013 10:49 PM   
Taurus Flyer



Posts: 2370
Score: 123
Joined: 1/9/2004
Last Login: 5/24/2013
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Yes!!! Thanks technicians of RCU!!

Hanna and Cees

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       Post #: 998

RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 5/15/2013 6:43 AM   
Taurus Flyer



Posts: 2370
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Joined: 1/9/2004
Last Login: 5/24/2013
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Joe (PT19 flyer) and other readers,
I received some e-mails from Joe about the construction of the Taurus and "slender look".

Important to know is the slender look is mainly a matter of visualization, the result of the special paint scheme.

I show two photographs,
These are the same Taurusses before and after covering and painting.
I also show you the combined picture, one with and one without the paint scheme.

So Joe, if the Taurus on bottom looks slender, your construction probably is alright, but the result you have to evaluate after finishing. Let me know your impression about the picture!

BTW yesterday I sent you the Taurus MAN article, did you received it?

Success
Cees


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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on... - 5/16/2013 12:51 PM   
Taurus Flyer



Posts: 2370
Score: 123
Joined: 1/9/2004
Last Login: 5/24/2013
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Beside the explanation of the "slender" Taurus as result of the paint scheme of course there was one real slender Taurus and that's the Taurus this thread is all about.

Ed Kazmirski and Bob Dunham did cooperate together to gain success, Ed by designing the Orion and the successor Taurus and promote the radios, Bob by develop his Orbit radio systems.

After eliminating the relais of the receivers by using amplifiers (Bonner Transmite vs Bonner Duramite) it was possible to significantly shrinking the receivers. Ed did use these relay-less receivers of Bob Dunhams Orbit radios.

This small electronic detail was the main reason I recognized the slender fuselage in the crate of Africe and started my examination.

There are no plans of this first successful contest Taurus (called by me, Oldest Taurus on Earth), Ed did fly contests with it and modified in several stages to meet his requirements. I only reconstructed this first known of the nearly 10 versions (development steps!) I know.

A picture I made in 2008 during the reconstruction process. Studying of the fit of the earliest Orbit proportional radio in the slender fuselage, one of the development steps of the past of Ed's personal pattern ship.

Cees

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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pattern Universe - RC Pattern Flying >> Classic RC Pattern Flying >> RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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