Why do pattern guys do this?  
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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 1:00:14 AM   
Mustang Man-RCU



Posts: 179
Joined: 4/7/2003
From: Moore, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Hi,
I have been around R.C. for about seven years now and would be considered a scale and warbird buff who also likes to sport fly now and then. The first time I saw a pattern plane fly I noticed that the pilot "chopped" the throttle killing the engine just before the wheels touched. I have seen quite a number of pattern planes since then and have observed this to be a common thing for pattern pilots to do. I have always wondered what the purpose of killing the engine before touchdown is. I don't want to appear to be dumber than I really am so I have quietly asked a couple of the guys I fly with about this (they're not pattern guys either) and have been given answers like "They do it to keep from damaging the prop" or "Aw, they're just showing off". These answers don't make sense to me. I don't want to damage props either so I try my best not to land on them and I don't think it takes any special talent to cut the throttle trim while landing. I never hear pattern guys talk about this killing the engine thing so I think maybe they're sworn to secrecy like K.F.C. employees who have to promise never to divulge the Col's secret reciept. So, how about it guys? Is anyone willing to enlighten me or do I have to take up pattern flying to find out? I sure hope not 'cause I don't think I possess the dedication or disclipine I feel is required to be a good pattern pilot. Thanks in advance to all who are willing to share the answer.
Respectfully.
Steve

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 1:04:08 AM   
Thomasr


 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/8/2002
From: Tonsberg, NORWAY
Status: offline 		"Is anyone willing to enlighten me or do I have to take up pattern flying to find out?"
I'm terribly sorry, but I think you'll have to start flying pattern I stop the engine mostly in order to get the plane to stop before the end of the field, that's all there's to it, for me at least. I'm sure someone else has more complex ideas of it though.

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 1:11:42 AM   
JimTrainor


 

Posts: 1308
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I saw someone do that a recently and asked. I was told it was to avoid possible damage to the crank shaft caused by a prop strike. It was a YS engine... perhaps it is an issue with YS engines.

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 1:19:26 AM   
CHassan



Posts: 1230
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: Beavercreek, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I always figured it had to do with getting the plane to stop too. If they can fly precision aerobatics my guess is they can land with out banging a prop, at least no more than the rest of us.

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The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
--Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy--

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 1:57:14 AM   
Ryan Smith


 

Posts: 761
Joined: 3/2/2002
From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I guess I'm the odd one!

My engine actually stays running most of the time, unless it idles too low. I believe this occurs because of people pulling their idle trim back to slow the airplane, you have to remember, pattern planes are very clean, even the newer ones with larger fuses and fixed gear, and they are very light too, making them have lower stall speed.

I am running a Webra 1.45 on my Hydeout and when I begin to set up to land, I pull the throttle trim back 4-5 clicks (I fly with the throttle trim centered) because the engine is making too much thrust to slow the plane down enough to land. Now with the engine not pulling as hard, I can grease on a full stall landing and be stopped in front of me.

I have noticed that 99% of the time with my friend's YS powered Smaragds, the engine will die right before the wheels touch.

I hope that I explained this OK.

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 2:07:12 AM   
CHassan



Posts: 1230
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: Beavercreek, OH, USA
Status: offline 		If I'm not mistaken, during competition the engine must be running at touch down. Right? Just what I thought I read somewhere

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The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
--Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy--

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 3:44:21 AM   
eoinjoc


 

Posts: 41
Joined: 4/19/2003
From: Cork, IRELAND
Status: offline 		Engine does not have to be running at touchdown! Speaking for myself I was trained by a pattern pilot...his reasoning was that it was one less thing to worry about for a student pilot trying to get the landing setup just right...and well taught habits tend to stick.
However, flying a Webra 1.45 I personally find much more control when I have the engine running at touchdown as the large prop acts as a brake. The few times I have had to land dead-stick I found that the plane floated on much further. And the Webra 145 is a lovely engine to land...back three or four clicks from the centre and the plane will come smoothly in on a very reliable engine tickover. Interesting that it appears to be the four-stroke guys who tend to kill the engine isn't it?

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 5:17:48 AM   
CHassan



Posts: 1230
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: Beavercreek, OH, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by E O Callaghan
Engine does not have to be running at touchdown! [/QUOTE]

Goes to show what I know. :

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The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
--Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy--

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 5:32:08 AM   
TonyF


 

Posts: 908
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: Rosamond, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I have a friend here who does that all the time. I keep telling him that if I wanted to have to carry the model back I would get out my free flight models! This is R/C after all, you're supposed to bring the model back to you!

Right Troy?

Practicing I never shut off the engine unless I have to. Saves time being able to taxi back, and I want to get my model off the runway as soon as I can.

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TonyF
Team JR

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Just Habit - 5/24/2003 1:11:10 PM   
Troy Newman


 

Posts: 2429
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Its not a crankshaft thing...Its not really a prop thing...even though in years past it might have been with me......

Its just habit......For me at least....I usually don't have a very good steerable tail wheel so it almost useless trying to drive back.....

But Yes as Tony says this is really RC as in you can have control on the ground....I don't place much priority on being able to taxi my model.....my opinion is who cares if you can taxi this isn't like its an RC car.....My fun is when its in the air......


Now in competition flights your caller or helper goes and picks up the model...Taxi time is wasted time in the event...So you don't taxi and there is no reason to keep it running after it touches down......



Troy

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Grass fields and retracts - 5/24/2003 2:39:10 PM   
mups53


 

Posts: 1102
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
Status: offline 		For years we flew planes with retracts on grass fields. They don't mix well. For the most part the retracts were very weak and fragile so it wasn't a good idea to be taxiing with them. At our field we never taxi for takeoff either. Someone always places the plane out on the field for takeoff. This helps to make sure the engine is cleared out and warmed up properly. With fixed gear things are due for a change. I'm really glad that this thread was started because now that you bring it up it does seem silly. The only thing missing now will be the loss of exercise from not having to run after everyones plane. Mike

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 4:56:22 PM   
phuffstatler



Posts: 729
Joined: 8/19/2002
From: Robinson, TX, USA
Status: offline 		When I was flying Pattern here in Texas, we shut the engine off on landing for two reasons. Number one, once you kill the engine, you're committed to landing, and the plane stays down. They do not remove points for the engine running or not. The landing itself is what was judged.

Second is, when you're flying competition, our group always carried out planes onto the runway for each other, and we always had someone to pick the plane up after landing, so taxi around was never a consideration. There were always too many people around for taxi, and the contest went much faster and smoother when you had someone to carry on and off. When 40 pilots were there to fly 5 or 6 rounds in two days, you had to move things along.

That's why I would kill the engine on landing. But only during competition. During practice, I would fly like anyone else.

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/24/2003 9:11:25 PM   
GC Flyer-RCU


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 7/12/2002
From: Ione, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Here's my .02 ---
I've been flying pattern about year now and just moved up to a larger plane ( Vortex ) with a YS120FZ.
A few things re: the previous posts-
- I don't think it's a crank shaft issue with YS's. They are pretty solid.
- I know at least on my plane, it is very clean, ie little drag. Combine that with a 15x11 prop, and even at idle you have significant pull. I kill mine when I am about six feet high and have just called "LANDING Beginning Now ". If I don't, yes I can fly it down to landing, but it will roll out off the opposite end of the runway.
- My aircraft does not steer well on the ground either, as someone previously mentioned.
- re: banging the prop - Well, they are $12-$16 a whack..... Haven't banged one in some time, thankfully. Usually happens in the pits with me as I lift up the tail.....


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Chris Larson
Gold Country Flyers

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Why do pattern guys do this? - 5/25/2003 2:47:06 AM   
flywilly


 

Posts: 908
Joined: 2/3/2002
From: glen allen, VA,
Status: offline 		I've done it for more than 25 years. Idle wasn't always that reliable back then. Now I hate 'driving my plane around - inverted engines suck up lots of crap into the carb and the prop. Also prevents stupid accidents (not that pattern fliers ever have them...). I can get my plane on and off the field faster. Tony, you may 'drive' your planes very efficiently, but have you ever been circling the runway waiting to land while somebody drives around trying to get lined up to take-off?
The last club I belonged to had a paved runway, but it was pretty narrow. A lot of guys would try to turn around and run out room. They'd either have to run out or they'd 'fall' off the edge of the runway usually killing the engine.
Of course I always kill the engine when making vertical 'landings' :-)
-Will B.

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