YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line  
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YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 3/17/2002 2:57:54 PM   
Rob127e


 

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Has anyone experienced poor idling and noting bubbles in the fuel delivery line from the regulator outlet line to the carb ?

I know these bubbles should not be there, however need to work out how to stop them. When the engine is idling, you can see the bubbles go to the carb and the engine RPM changes.

Full power appears to be OK, its stable.

The engine is brand new and been sitting in its box at home for the last six (6) months.
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YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 3/17/2002 5:13:41 PM   
rexbirk


 

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How much has the engine been run? What type of fuel and glow plug?

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YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 3/18/2002 4:46:41 PM   
mrbonk



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ladyflyer
I think they put opaque fuel lines on the new YS engines to keep people from worrying about the bubbles [/QUOTE]

Opaque?? Mine is totally solid colour....can't see through it at all! I wish I hadn't read this post now....I'll be wondering if I'm getting bubbles in my fuel now


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For What It's Worth - 3/18/2002 5:02:36 PM   
cloudniner


 

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I am no expert but consider the following.

You might want to check the regulator diaphram.
It would be easy for the crankcase pressure to blow into the fuel area of the regulator. A pin hole leak could cause this problem.

The bottom part of the regulator is pressurized by the crankcase. YS engines do not have a vent like most other 4-strokes. They use this crankcase pressure to pressurize the fuel tank and give the supercharger effect to the intake.

P.S. I replaced the fuel line with some transparent stuff before I started the YS I have.

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Most do bubble... - 3/18/2002 9:56:18 PM   
RLDIII


 

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One of the above posts is right on. Everyone needs to understand that YS engines are DIFFERENT. On other engines, bubbles leading to the carb are definately NOT GOOD. However, most all YS engines WILL do it between the regulator and the carb, especially at or near idle. I think it has something to do with the fact that at idel, the carb is operating on suction, and only above a certain RPM does it transition to pressure. However, if everything is set correctly, IT WON'T CAUSE PROBLEMS.

As mentioned above, I think that was why my YS .63 came with opaque (solid colored) fuel line between the regulator and the carb.

I would double check plug (O.S. type "F" or Y.S. plug) fuel type (do yourself a favor and use at least 20/20 fuel), check valve, and fuel filter. Also, if you are not familiar with setting the mixtures on one, get some help from someone who.

Have fun,

Lee

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RIGHT! - 3/19/2002 8:46:03 AM   
cloudniner


 

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If one reads the YS instruction manual it says:

"The idle mixture is adjusted by screwing in (lean) and out (rich) the regulator screw. How on earth would you fingure this to mean that the carb is suction feed? Give me a break.

Have you ever detached the fuel line just past the check valve on the way to the tank. You will hear a 'Pisssss'. This is the pressure that the engine is feeding the tank. This pressure pushes fuel to the regulator which maintains a pressure controlled by the regulator spring. Which controls the pressure to the carb.

If you have no 'air' bubbles going into the engine from the tank were in the *&^%$*& are they comming from at idle??? Give me a break!!!!!!!!!

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Re: RIGHT! - 3/19/2002 9:27:59 AM   
can773



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by cloudniner
If one reads the YS instruction manual it says:

"The idle mixture is adjusted by screwing in (lean) and out (rich) the regulator screw. How on earth would you fingure this to mean that the carb is suction feed? Give me a break.

Have you ever detached the fuel line just past the check valve on the way to the tank. You will hear a 'Pisssss'. This is the pressure that the engine is feeding the tank. This pressure pushes fuel to the regulator which maintains a pressure controlled by the regulator spring. Which controls the pressure to the carb.

If you have no 'air' bubbles going into the engine from the tank were in the *&^%$*& are they comming from at idle??? Give me a break!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]

Cloudniner

You are incorrect, at around 2500 rpm and below the injection of fuel cease to exist and the motor behaves as most other engines do. This is why the engine can run forever at idle with the pressure line detached, but as soon as you throttle up it leans out and dies. The pressure is still in the tank but it is not required for operation at idle.

The bubbles in the line from the regulator to the carb are quite normal and nothing to get worried about


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YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 3/19/2002 9:38:26 AM   
djlyon



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My YS53 has bubbles in the fuel line between the regulator and the carburetor when running, from idle to half throttle. At full throttle the line seems to be clear. I don't do anything about it because the engine runs great through out the throttle range and produces great power and besides it is a common condition, which the experts have blessed as normal.

On a RC online thread awhile back it was discussed at length and I presented a far fitched (imo) theory that perhaps the bubbles were vaporized alcohol, the vaporization taking place as the fuel exited the pressure regulator. I didn't really believe this. I thought there was an air leak in the system some where. No body on the thread commented on the theory and I lost interest because my engine and others that I knew of ran just fine.

Now to the OS 91FX, a fine running motor that I've been running for a long time. Good idle, good throttle response and makes really good power. However posts on RC online and magazine reviews have complained about air leaks in the remote needle and discussed what to do to fix them. A few weeks ago I noticed that at low and mid range my engine had bubbles between the needle valve and the carburetor. I ignored it because the engine was running well. Last week I even spotted fine bubbles at high throttle. I suspect the bubbles were always there and I just hadn't noticed. I generally don't try to find out what's wrong with a good running engine.

A couple of days ago I put in a new needle "O" ring anyway because I was sure there was a leak. It still had the bubbles and it still ran really good. After the flying session I started to drain the remaining fuel from the tank and noticed I was getting almost solid foam. I had hooked the fuel pump to the line between the carburetor and the needle instead of the needle and the tank. As a result the pump was sucking the fuel out of the tank through the needle valve. Then I noticed that the fuel coming out of the tank had no bubbles. It was solid fuel. Conclusion, big leak in the needle valve requiring fixing, broke or not. Latter that day I put a clamp on the line from the needle valve to the tank and drew a vacuum on the line to the carb. It held the vacuum, NO LEAK. I filled the tank with fuel and then began sucking it out through the needle valve with the pump. Sure enough, foam again, but still the line to the tank was clear fuel with no bubbles. I left the pump run and clamped off the line to the tank. All flow of fuel, bubbles, foam, air or anything else stopped coming out of the needle valve. Again NO LEAK.

Now I'm really beginning to believe that what I and maybe many others have been seeing in the OS remote needles and YS 4 strokes is alcohol vapor bubbles and not air bubbles caused by leaks. I not sure it makes a difference if it's alcohol and not air. Uneven fuel flow is still uneven fuel flow.

Any comments? Any fluid dynamics persons out there that can give some insight? Fluid properties folks? I'm an aerodynamics major but that's just a small segment of fluid dynamics and doesn't help me here a bit.

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Right Track - 3/19/2002 4:34:13 PM   
cloudniner


 

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Djlyon is right on with the 'alcohol vapor bubbles and not air bubbles caused by leaks'. Maybe....

Alcohol has a specific boiling point 'can't remember out of my head what it is'. Alcohol or just about any fluid's boiling point is aftected by the fluids pressure and temperature. If the pressure is lowered then the boiling point is lowered also. In a perfect vaccum water boils at down near 95 degrees F or so.

Is it possible that the bubbles are alcohol vapor bubbles as Djlyon indicated? I think so. We have the alcohol being heated by the temperature of the crank case. Is it under a lower pressure area, not sure but, it is flowing towards the carb. If as others indicated the fuel is being drawn into the carb then it will be under a lower pressure. This may explain why the bubbles disappear when the engine is running at high RPM. The alcohol is then under pressure being forced to the carb. Does anyone know if the bubbles are more visible as the engine heats up?

I hope this sparks other comments.

For what it's worth.......RSN

< Message edited by cloudniner -- Mar 19 2002 3:10PM >

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RE: YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 3/19/2002 9:31:54 PM   
RLDIII


 

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Thank you Chad for explaining the fact that pressure feed PAST the regulator to the carb does NOT kick in until after a cetain RPM on YS engines. The Pressurized fuel system on YS is a DEMAND system and I've always been told that the small variations of suction from the carb is what the regulator uses to determine that demand. This is supposedly why the Cline PCFS system also needs at least SOME carb suction to work correctly on engines fitted with it. I tried to explain it, but you did better.

I like the idea that DJlyon had on alcohol vapor causing the bubbles. It makes as much sense to me as any other I've heard. It is true that as you reduce pressure on a liquid (back to the issue of a pressure drop going past a restriction again), its boiling point goes down. If it is just alcohol vapor, then I guess it shouldn't have the same leaning effect on the mixture since most all the alcohol going into the engine eventually gets vaporized anyway, right? Just look at all the bubbles that form behind a fully submerged boat prop churning the water. Is it air? If so, from where? I have always assumed it to be water vapor, but who knows.

Good debate here!

Lee

< Message edited by blw -- 4/15/2008 2:35:29 PM >


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RE: YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 3/19/2002 9:53:28 PM   
Traxxas_Tech



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It may have been noted above, thought I would just note it here. Your bad idle and air bubbles may be cause by the smallest pinhole leak in a fuel line somewhere. Try replacing the fuel line, and anything else that may be leaking, My YS wont idle withought good tank pressure. My .02 cents...

Good Luck

< Message edited by blw -- 4/15/2008 2:39:36 PM >


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RE: YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 4/14/2008 11:25:47 PM   
rexbirk


 

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RLDIII
Your boat prop reference hits the nail on the head. Cavitation in a boat prop is caused by water boiling in the vacuum created on prop. I was on a boat site and saw this explanation. I have 2 ys 91''s and they run like champs. They are ten years old. The diaphram in the regulator causes most problems. I change mine every year or when the engine performs in an unusual manner. I seem to notice throttle response suffering when the diaphram needs to be replaced.

Rex Birkinbine

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RE: YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 4/14/2008 11:28:38 PM   
rexbirk


 

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As a subnote. I did not bother to read my manuals early on in my YS experience and didnt realize that the YS idle needle behaves like an air bleed. ie; screwing it in richens, screwing it out leans. gave me fits until I read the manual.

Rex Birkinbine

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RE: YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 4/15/2008 4:08:12 PM   
Cyberwolf



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.

< Message edited by Cyberwolf -- 4/16/2008 1:10:47 PM >


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RE: YS91 - Will not idle / bubbles in the fuel line - 4/15/2008 5:13:22 PM   
rexracer