Caudron C-460 Rafale
10-03-2008, 08:38 AM
#1
Caudron C-460 Rafale
Caudron C-460 Rafale
The Caudron C.450 and C.460 Rafale ("Squall") were French racing aircraft built to participate in the Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe race of 1934. They were low-wing cantilever monoplanes of conventional configuration derived from the Caudron C.362 flown in the previous year's race. In the event, the C.450 took first place, piloted by Maurice Arnoux, and one of the C.460s took third, piloted by Albert Monville.
In August that year, Hélène Boucher set an airspeed record for aircraft in its class with the C.450, of 455 km/h (284 mph) and on Christmas Day, Raymond Delmotte set a new landplane world airspeed record of 506 km/h (314 mph) in a C.460, although the absolute airspeed record was still held by a seaplane.
The C.450 won the Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe again in 1935, this time piloted by Yves Lacombe. It was joined in the race by two C.461s, a highly-modified version of the C.460 with the cockpit sunk entirely within the fuselage. Forward vision for the pilot was provided via two glazed-over scallops in the fuselage sides. One of these aircraft, flown by Maurice Arnoux, placed second in the race. A C.460 piloted by Michel Detroyat also won the Greve Trophy and Thompson Trophy at the 1936 National Air Races in the United States.
The Caudron C.450 and C.460 Rafale ("Squall") were French racing aircraft built to participate in the Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe race of 1934. They were low-wing cantilever monoplanes of conventional configuration derived from the Caudron C.362 flown in the previous year's race. In the event, the C.450 took first place, piloted by Maurice Arnoux, and one of the C.460s took third, piloted by Albert Monville.
In August that year, Hélène Boucher set an airspeed record for aircraft in its class with the C.450, of 455 km/h (284 mph) and on Christmas Day, Raymond Delmotte set a new landplane world airspeed record of 506 km/h (314 mph) in a C.460, although the absolute airspeed record was still held by a seaplane.
The C.450 won the Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe again in 1935, this time piloted by Yves Lacombe. It was joined in the race by two C.461s, a highly-modified version of the C.460 with the cockpit sunk entirely within the fuselage. Forward vision for the pilot was provided via two glazed-over scallops in the fuselage sides. One of these aircraft, flown by Maurice Arnoux, placed second in the race. A C.460 piloted by Michel Detroyat also won the Greve Trophy and Thompson Trophy at the 1936 National Air Races in the United States.
10-05-2008, 07:39 AM
#3
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Well done whats going in the front,, I guess this is a scratch built never the saw the plane let alone a kit, cowl treatment awsome/////It will be quick m,artin
Fuel soak issues I of course do the epoxy thing then give a spray of top coat which is fuel proof all the way back even the servo radio area under the wing area of the fus
never had a issue the spray will also get any little crannies that the epoxy did not get into martin
Fuel soak issues I of course do the epoxy thing then give a spray of top coat which is fuel proof all the way back even the servo radio area under the wing area of the fus
never had a issue the spray will also get any little crannies that the epoxy did not get into martin
10-05-2008, 08:10 AM
#4
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Martin,
It is from JMGlasscraft -[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7123548/tm.htm]JMGlasscraft Penetrator[/link] The link shows the Penetrator - Irvine .15r, Micro Estrelita - Cox .010 and the PeeWee Penetrator - piped VA .049
I bought it a year or so ago, and at the time wasn't really thrilled with the looks as I was on a QM15-Reno Mustang kick then. So I just let it sit. Then recently I was thinking about doing a Folkerts Jupiter for a Fora Junior 2.5 engine and thought about this plane. Funny how the Russian Kids get better engines than the US adults
. Anyway after I dug the Caudron out of remote storage it proved to be a bit smaller than I remembered - This is a good plane for a 1cc diesel or glow. I like the glass fuse for jisim protection, and the engine fits within the cowl. I need to make some provisions for the carb, needle and muffler.
The kit shows two wing span versions one 32" and the other 25". I fashioned my wings to 28" span and built to the smaller horiz stab.
I have a the 1cc mpjett pb as a placeholder with plans of running a bearing version after sorting it all out. I am dreaming about finishing out at 13 ozs also.
It is from JMGlasscraft -[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7123548/tm.htm]JMGlasscraft Penetrator[/link] The link shows the Penetrator - Irvine .15r, Micro Estrelita - Cox .010 and the PeeWee Penetrator - piped VA .049
I bought it a year or so ago, and at the time wasn't really thrilled with the looks as I was on a QM15-Reno Mustang kick then. So I just let it sit. Then recently I was thinking about doing a Folkerts Jupiter for a Fora Junior 2.5 engine and thought about this plane. Funny how the Russian Kids get better engines than the US adults
. Anyway after I dug the Caudron out of remote storage it proved to be a bit smaller than I remembered - This is a good plane for a 1cc diesel or glow. I like the glass fuse for jisim protection, and the engine fits within the cowl. I need to make some provisions for the carb, needle and muffler. The kit shows two wing span versions one 32" and the other 25". I fashioned my wings to 28" span and built to the smaller horiz stab.
I have a the 1cc mpjett pb as a placeholder with plans of running a bearing version after sorting it all out. I am dreaming about finishing out at 13 ozs also.
10-07-2008, 08:56 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OAKEYQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Looks reeeeealy sleek ,also looks like you'll need more prop pitch on this one to hold the revs down once in the air. It'll definately impress the anti diesel crowd and may make a few more beleivers 
10-08-2008, 06:08 PM
#8
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Thanks Stewart.
I think this one will be testing the 5x5 range props
As much fun as the JackRabbit is I'm excited to get this one flying.
I may even have to weld up a little header for it....can't have that black muffler hanging in the slipstream
I think this one will be testing the 5x5 range props
As much fun as the JackRabbit is I'm excited to get this one flying.
I may even have to weld up a little header for it....can't have that black muffler hanging in the slipstream
10-23-2008, 07:27 AM
#9
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Its been pretty sleepy in the Diesel forum lately
I've been working on the Cauldron - mostly painting the French national blue, white and red stripes running across the fuselage. Brought a couple other planes on the bench which has slowed individual progress but given tasks while waiting on paint and epoxy to dry.
Found a few more shots on the web to share.
[link=http://www.master194.com/maquettes/patrick/caudron/index.htm]http://www.master194.com/maquettes/patrick/caudron/index.htm[/link]
It seems the earlier (?) #6 was painted a lighter blue than the Thompson Trophy winner #100? Any way I am hoping so as I am using insignia blue for my #100
I've been working on the Cauldron - mostly painting the French national blue, white and red stripes running across the fuselage. Brought a couple other planes on the bench which has slowed individual progress but given tasks while waiting on paint and epoxy to dry.
Found a few more shots on the web to share.
[link=http://www.master194.com/maquettes/patrick/caudron/index.htm]http://www.master194.com/maquettes/patrick/caudron/index.htm[/link]
It seems the earlier (?) #6 was painted a lighter blue than the Thompson Trophy winner #100? Any way I am hoping so as I am using insignia blue for my #100
12-06-2008, 08:40 AM
#12
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Good Morning Stewart!
No[
] I've let to many other projects share the building board.
Blue paint and French national stripes are complete and the magnet secured cowl is finished and should work well. Just need to paint the cockpit windows - all of them.
I did ship off a MPjett pb engine to Macs Products in Sacramento to make some headers for the little engines.
If he laughs to loud when he opens the box and looks at the engine - well I tried
I just don't like the looks of that little black muffler hanging out in the slipstream on this one - would double the wetted frontal area[X(]
Has anyone run a MPjett without the muffler? Curious how rpm compares with the muffler?
No[
] I've let to many other projects share the building board.Blue paint and French national stripes are complete and the magnet secured cowl is finished and should work well. Just need to paint the cockpit windows - all of them.
I did ship off a MPjett pb engine to Macs Products in Sacramento to make some headers for the little engines.
If he laughs to loud when he opens the box and looks at the engine - well I tried
I just don't like the looks of that little black muffler hanging out in the slipstream on this one - would double the wetted frontal area[X(]
Has anyone run a MPjett without the muffler? Curious how rpm compares with the muffler?
12-06-2008, 08:46 AM
#13
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Hey Stewart,
A moment of silence.....
I broke my first Burford 6x4 prop last weekend on the Jack Rabbit.
Jeeze getting tough to take......All this positive news in the world......Remember August? Ahh, simpler times indeed.
A moment of silence.....
I broke my first Burford 6x4 prop last weekend on the Jack Rabbit.
Jeeze getting tough to take......All this positive news in the world......Remember August? Ahh, simpler times indeed.
12-06-2008, 08:24 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OAKEYQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Rob,
Good news is to you the PB props are now cheaper with the sad exchange rate of our dollar.
Re the muffler, if your feild/club allows it run it without - it'll help you keep track of it in the air
With no muffler and a good brew , I imagine a good increase in RPM's maybe possiable.
On a happy note I received my Schlosser .5cc from David lasr week , am jusr sad I didnt find out about these gems befor there supply dried up , would love a 1cc R/C version. I have to say there build quality rivals a PB .33, abosultly excellent!
Stewart
Good news is to you the PB props are now cheaper with the sad exchange rate of our dollar.
Re the muffler, if your feild/club allows it run it without - it'll help you keep track of it in the air
With no muffler and a good brew , I imagine a good increase in RPM's maybe possiable.
On a happy note I received my Schlosser .5cc from David lasr week
, am jusr sad I didnt find out about these gems befor there supply dried up , would love a 1cc R/C version. I have to say there build quality rivals a PB .33, abosultly excellent! Stewart
12-07-2008, 09:19 AM
#15
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
build quality rivals a PB .33
Yes the schlossers are among the highest quality but I think the castings are not finished to the same level as the PB.33 and the details are not finished off nearly as well. The plastic servo arm used as the throttle arm just bugs me - astetically.
I like to compare them as mini Olivers?
Be gentle on the .5 cc con rod as there is not a lot of mass there.....
Our club is pretty cool about noise, A few old gents (?) will complain but the vast majority won't mind as long as it is a cool engine in a cool model that they want to see fly
And not a OS fx .46 without a muffler in a trainer droning along endlesslyy in the patternI painted my windows!
12-07-2008, 10:05 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OAKEYQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
" Yes the schlossers are among the highest quality but I think the castings are not finished to the same level as the PB.33 and the details are not finished off nearly as well. The plastic servo arm used as the throttle arm just bugs me - astetically. "
Well ye the Schlossers are just like any other mass produced engine on the outside, my comments were in reference to there fits , yuknow the working bits. And ye they really are mini olivers.
Stewart
Well ye the Schlossers are just like any other mass produced engine on the outside, my comments were in reference to there fits , yuknow the working bits. And ye they really are mini olivers.
Stewart
12-17-2008, 02:40 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Amadora, PORTUGAL
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Congrats RocketRob, I've been enjoyng this thread very much from its beginning, you have been making a wonderfull work! [8D][8D][8D]
12-18-2008, 08:58 AM
#20
RE: Caudron C-460 Rafale
Mr. Cox, On initial running in on a apc 6.5x2.9 only hitting 16,900 without agressive leaning or compression adjustments. The other one in my Jack Rabbit hits 19k on that prop but has much more time.....
Thanks Patxipt, I'm looking forward to chasing this one around the sky
Thanks Patxipt, I'm looking forward to chasing this one around the sky
