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Remote firing - 10/5/2008 8:08 AM   
thelocksmith


 

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From: Colona, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Is it possible to hook up a brushed ESC to the ignitors of a rocket motor to fire them remotely? By concept it should work all an esc does is very the voltage by degree change it over to a switch all on or off and it should have ample power to launch a motor. But will this hurt the esc or more important the battery?

I am wanting to convert an old junk jet I have into a rocket powered rc plane, Have it droped by a bigger plane and then fired remotely and fly around for a few seconds and land.
Any help would be great
J.R.

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RE: Remote firing - 11/15/2008 11:03 AM   
FloridaDude



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Status: offline 		yes this would me and friends did the same thing on an rc car and it wont hurt it

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RE: Remote firing - 12/31/2008 7:45 PM   
bschultz


 

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Status: offline 		Yep, It works. Use a 5 amp gp esc to drop and fire a d-11p on my estes astro blaster.

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RE: Remote firing - 1/3/2009 10:47 AM   
soinks


 

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From: Salisbury, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I'd like to do something similar with a plane that's already flying. I want it to fire up when at show center at our flying field for show and most of all speeeeed. I'm using a Lanier shrike with a 46 OS on it. I know I have to mount it some how on the plane but that is not a problem. I really want to go fasssssst with system on it. I guess what I really need to know is what size motor to use and how to mount it. Please help if you have any Ideas. Feel free to email me too

snowz@verizon.net

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RE: Remote firing - 2/27/2009 6:40 PM   
ChopperMike


 

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quote:

guess what I really need to know is what size motor to use and how to mount it.


To have any kind of effect at all other than smoke it'll need a G size motor. One of the guys in our club decided he wanted to do the same thing with a 40size plane and used B and C size motors, which I tried to tell him were way too small. All they did was smoke. You have to look at your AUW and the thrust curve of the motor to figure what's needed. Most full size jets have less than 1:1 thrust to weight but they also have thrust that lasts for more than a few seconds. So for your .46 Shrike something in the 10-15lb thrust might do OK.

As far as mounting make sure it's centered properly or you'll have control problems when it's ignited. You could try a smaller motor at first just in case it is of center. You also have to make sure it can't eject when the ejection charge fires. You may be able to find a plugged engine although most of the larger motors aren't of the plugged variety. You can use an Aerotech RMS (Reloadable Motor System) and just leave out the charge.



Mike

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RE: Remote firing - 12/4/2009 9:05 PM   
yekots


 

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Status: offline 		Soinks did you ever get this put together and launched? I am currently working on a missle system from my aircraft, I have a Gnome rocket with mini engines that we want to try and launch from the wing tip. I want to use my landing gear switch to fire it utilizing the receiver battery pack. How can I pass this voltage through to the rocket and use the switch?

Thanks for the help.

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RE: Remote firing - 12/5/2009 6:27 AM   
vicman



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Status: offline 		Yekots,
I don't know if you fly at an ama field or not but your idea would be a no no according to the safety code. It would be cool though.


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RE: Remote firing - 12/5/2009 12:33 PM   
balsaeater


 

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From: p, ANDORRA
Status: offline 		I too am interested in a in flight rocket booster sytem for speed in hopefully early 2011.
In my case I would be taking a used F5d electric pylon racer.
This class of plane uses ~1.5kg of propeller thrust to get a in flight speed of ~150MPH (240KPH) in level flight and prop a 4. x 4.7 is doing 35,000 rpm .

In a vertical dive engine off the plane gets to maybe ~170MPH and engine on might go slower as the prop could act as a air brake so in long vertical dives my test plane uses a folding prop.

F I run the numbers in a flight simulator program the result is simple the model plane makes some ~1.00 kg (2.2lbs) of drag at 150MPH
More disturbing is the Ikg (2.2lbs) AUW plane has a lift force on the wings of more than 2kgs. (4.4lbs)

If I enter into the program some suitable power source to get to lets say 250 MPH and we decide AUW is 1.5kg from rocket assist motor we hit real problems fast. The drag force or drag will be some ~5kg( 11lbs) and the wings will generate some ~6kg (13lbs ) of lift or about 4 times more lift than the AUW of the plane .This is due to the non symetrical wings shape.

A symetrical wing will create less lift but often more drag

This means for the standard wing to stay together it needs an extra carbon rod spar inserted to take some 4 times AUW weight of the plane .

Aerlons and elevator would become super sensitive from fast airflow so would need to be reduced in size and have stronger servos.

If the plane hits turbulence or I pull back on controls a tad too quick the lift forces on the wing could exceed ~15kg (33 lbs ) and for sure the wings will fold .To get this speed of 250MPH in level flight would require a rocket motor asssist power of some ~ 6kg (13lbs ) to overcome the 5kg (11lbs) of drag.

If assume I lift vertically from the ground like a rocket then I would need maybe 15Kg (33 lbs )of thrust power to fight the gravity and to keep accelerating and fight the drag. A 15 Kg (33 lbs )rocket motor that fires for say ten seconds seconds is huge and my plane would be like a fly stuck onto a big rocket
This means I would be in the region where the plane could not lift the heavy empty rocket motor after the burn .That also means the plane and rocket would need to separate and land as two separate components .

Even the 6kg (13 lbs )rocket that fires for ten seconds is large very large

Realistically the best is reduce the rocket motor size by 50% and have a shorter burn time of five seconds.
Thinking smarter again using gravity earths free engine if I put the plane into a vertical dive I should get terminal velocity speed of 170MPH.
At that point I fire the engine the rocket motor will more quickly get to 250MPH as I level out and fly past the flight line.

I optimistically figure it will take~ 3 seconds to reach 250MPH.

The fly in the ointment is how to get the plane and stapped on rocket motor to some 1000 feet plus so as to enter te dive in the first place as i cant aford the weight of a 15 glow motr and fuel or electric motor and battery pack

So that now requires my buddy to use my 40 trainer with lots of lifting power to be mother ship and lift the 1.5KG plane on its back up to a suitable height and then separate the two planes .

Anyhow that's the theory and the real glitch is costs they are astronomical of the charts in Europe due to massive rocket power regulations and HAZMAT shipping costs.
Getting more than a tiny D motor is real hard work.

Its probably cheaper and easier for me to bring my plane to the USA and buy the rocket motor there .Then do my flight there and fly home again than try to do the project in Europe
Thats based on if I want to use off the shelf components like what exists in the USA

Alternatively I need to make my own motors and that is where the best hope is to copy this guy who makes his own cheap motors using KNO3 and sugar inside PVC plumbing casing and also he sells plans at his site http://www.inverseengineering.com/.

However this requires the making of some few static motors to work out the bugs and watching his video you do see a bucket load of KATO (explosions ) Therefore this route isn't for the lighthearted who worry about cost if the plane explodes in mid air.
It also isnt suitablle to use at airshow where large crowds are in which case the commersial of the shelf components could be a lot safer.

The reason to mention this ll is that the idea to attach a rocket assist to 40 plane is similar to attacing a rocket to a greyhound bus .
Yes if the rocket is big enough a greyhound bus can go very fast but it would cost hundreds of times more money than attaching a rocket to smaller sports car and the sports car will probably be lot faster .

Same for the planes even if your 40 plane could take the forces not get flutter on the wings and not lose to many parts like controls surfaces or tailplanes etc and you could make a rocket big eneogh to fight the air brake effect of the slow propeller doing a mere 15K your unlikly to exceed 150MPH.
Thats the same speed as terminal dive speed which you can get for free doing a long vertical dive and with a rocket engine you spend a lot of money making a smoke trail,

To get a real fast speeds is more realistic to use a plane that is already fast and beef it up to take the extra new speeds. Its cheaper to go for smallest plane as mass equals cost ratio.


Best to figure costs as 500 gram plane will cost 4 times the cost than a 250 gram plane. A 1000 gram plane will cost 16 times more than 250 gram plane making a 1.5KG 40 plane project real crazy money

However if doing a mother ship project a plane it must not be too small as you need to be able to see it .
If its a simple fire up rocket engine on a small plane a S 400 pylon racer like a Voodoo with minimum electric motor combo and three second fire rocket might also work.

Also lauching a s400 pylon racer plane with no electric motor as glider works very well using a large rubber bungee.
Done well the planes can get to 200 feet plus from one launch .Once up and gliding then the rocket motor can be fired up

For those with slope soaring its even more easy to get airborne with no power source and then once up high fire up the rocket motor

The use of the ESC for remote firing if it works could make these projects possible but costs dictate if your not rich keep the plane very small and much cheaper

I would look on the net for even smaller planes plans that do electric pylon racing such as micro racers which still get speeds of 120MPH
Those planes AUW are 250 grams and require even smaller rockets motors to get interesting speeds and still stay affordable or the hobby guys

Rocket kit gliders that go up and then glide down are often AUW 100 grams ~3.5 onz but dont go so fast maybe 60MPH but are good for learning the black art of rocket motors


Balsaeater

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RE: Remote firing - 12/6/2009 6:05 AM   
yekots


 

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Status: offline 		Vicman I fly at a private airfield so it's not an issue. It will be cool when I get it all together. I answered my own question earlier in this thread. I found exactly what I was looking for at

http://www.hansenhobbies.com/products/onboardacc/ners/

I think these will work perfect for what I am trying to do.

Oh, and Balsaeater, it sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this project. You may want to consider some type of a delta wing aircraft, this would handle the types of speeds you are talking about much better than a straight wing.

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RE: Remote firing - 12/6/2009 6:46 AM   
vicman



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From: Valdese, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Hansen makes a great memory chip for the 9C. I've been using mine for a few years now.

Take a vid of those two Gnomes leaving


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RE: Remote firing - 12/6/2009 8:22 PM   
yekots


 

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Status: offline 		We'll do vicman.

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RE: Remote firing - 12/11/2009 10:12 PM   
Wizzard033



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Status: offline 		@ vicman - Hansen makes a great memory chip for the 9C. I've been using mine for a few years now.

Do you know if its possible to program things such as "throttle" delays using channels other than 3 or using the extensive programming required to do so on other channels with the CAMpEDIT and the 9C? Witch card do you use and what is there to gain from it?

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RE: Remote firing - 12/12/2009 2:02 AM   
vicman



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Status: offline 		I got the card directly from Hansen Hobbies.
As far as what it remembers it takes everything the radio is capable of. I got the one that holds 132 models but have only used about 18


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RE: Remote firing - 1/3/2010 3:05 AM   
Ethesis


 

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Status: offline 		Hi.
I had an idea to convert some slope gliders into rocket powered aircraft. i finished the fusalage and know where to buy wings. The plane kinda looks like the German Komet in WWII. The body's made out of foam and the wings, once i get them, are the mini XR by combatwings. D or E class motors will be used for flights, but i think ill throw the thing off a cliff and try with a B or C class motor to be sure it flies straight. i had some ideas about having the plane towed by a overpowered-plane and dropped for speed, but i'll try that after the plane's finished. Right now, cash is low so this project is going to be static until i get wings.

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RE: Remote firing - 1/3/2010 4:37 AM   
vicman



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Status: offline 		One thing to keep in mind is that the CG will change after the motor burns out.


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RE: Remote firing - 1/5/2010 3:17 AM   
Ethesis


 

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Status: offline 		i thought it would be better (and easier) to just balance the plane out first without the motor then just have the motor ejected with a chute to bring it down. I don't think the motor will cause to much trouble, it only lasts about 5 seconds.

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