RE: New 60-90 Extra 260

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/2/2009 5:36 AM

trpastor

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Hey GUys

Where do you all have your CG on this plane? Right where they say in the book?

I have a mark about 1/4" from the balck stripe on the wing that I just put the balance at (which should be pretty close to their suggestion). It was about 1/4" or so ahead of this before.

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/2/2009 6:22 AM

victorzamora

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I just read somewhere that 2-3/8" from the LE on the wingtip is the place to be as far as CG is concerned.....if I could only remember where. Maybe on RCGroups?

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 2:39 PM

RC4X4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: victorzamora

I just read somewhere that 2-3/8'' from the LE on the wingtip is the place to be as far as CG is concerned.....if I could only remember where. Maybe on RCGroups?

I usually put a string across so I can do the cg up against the fuse area. I don't remeber where mine is right now.
I can post that later as I am at work now. I am pretty sure it was on the wing tube. I fly with a neutral cg or a small amout
to the tail.

Cory

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 2:41 PM

RC4X4

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Hey guys.
I'm still working on getting a new 110 amp speed control for mine.
The motor I am using is awesome. The 80amp cannot handle it, gets hot.
Hopen to get it done in the next two weeks and a video.

Cory

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 2:50 PM

dbronst3790

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quote:

ORIGINAL: trpastor

Hey GUys

Where do you all have your CG on this plane? Right where they say in the book?

I have a mark about 1/4" from the balck stripe on the wing that I just put the balance at (which should be pretty close to their suggestion). It was about 1/4" or so ahead of this before.

I'm using the Aeroworks recommended CG of 2 1/4" back from from the leading edge measured at the wing tip. With my OS .75AX two-stroke the plane is just a bit nose heavy. I added a small amount of weight to the tail wheel assembly until I relocate my battery to counter this.

At this CG the plane flies very neutral, just a very, very small amount of elevator is needed to correct pitch when inverted and yaw when in knife edge. Up and down lines are dead straight.

< Message edited by dbronst3790 -- 7/6/2009 3:54 PM >

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 4:01 PM

trpastor

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Do your planes 3D very well? The plane flies well, but it seems rather snappy. Won't hold an upright harrier very well at all. I can hover it, but when it falls, it's falling. I don't think I'd be comfortable hovering it down on the deck.

Certainly not a floater.

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 4:19 PM

dbronst3790

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Sorry, I'm not really a 3D'er. I've read other posts that the plane does 3D very well but also that guy's are having a problem with it being snappy.

From a different site/thread:

Guys, take a look on the AeroWorks website. At the bottom of the 260's page there is a video of Wyatt Hughes flying the Extra. I'd definitely call that stuff hard core 3D. The engine is a Saito 91 running on 15% fuel with the all up weight as seen in the video at 6lbs 10oz. The CG is 1/8" back from the spec in the manual making it 2 3/8" at the tip. Viper, I think you'll have a keeper with the O.S. in it.

I've read about a number of folks saying theirs is snappy and think it might be a bit heavy but if that were the case mine would do it as well. It doesn't and I am beginning to think some people may be having some aileron blow back when pulling tight elevator manuevers. I am running Hitec's rated at 144 oz/in on my surfaces and experience no snappiness. I can come low and slow (2 and 1/2 to 3ft off the deck) snap it into a wall and settle into a hover without any tendency to drop either wing. This is the best 60 size plane I have flown and is VERY close to my 30% AW Extra 260 QB. We affectionately call this little fellow Mini-Me.

< Message edited by dbronst3790 -- 7/6/2009 4:21 PM >

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 4:25 PM

trpastor

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yeah, I saw that post. I wouldn't do it! but he may be better than me. I'll fly a profile low in a hover, but they don't snap like this one does. I think if I tried I could shave about 5oz of mine making it about 6,10. But I am wondering if it would be worth it. it would be a lot of effort, becuase a core part of that would be going from a saito 100, to an 82 (which I'd have to get new).

Then drop the battery to an 800mah or such, and put a mini in for throttle. etc

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 4:42 PM

Aero-Works

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Hello trpastor,

Check the video posted on the AW site by Wyatt Hughes he is having fun with the Extra 260 and flying some nice 3D.
visit link: http://aero-works.net/store/images/upload/video/6090Extra260.wmv

Thanks
Rocco / Aeroworks

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 9:15 PM

trpastor

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Yeah, I saw that. It's an amazing video, but he's obviously very talented. It does seem like, even with his skill, it wants to rock out of harrier on him. It's a good flying plane, but it's a little heavy for all but the best to do 3D with I think.

Rocco, does the edge come in lighter than this plane (AUW)?? If so it seems like it might float a litlte more and stay more stable in a harrier. Do you think so? I'm thinking I may get that one as well, or possibly instead of

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 9:48 PM

Aero-Works

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The Edge and Extra overall weight is about the same and the wing area on both planes is very similar. However, the Edge wing has a straight leading edge that gives the plane very stable flight characteristics. I was flying the 100cc Edge 540 this weekend and forgot how stable the Edge’s really are. It is very stable in the harrier!

Thank You
Rocco / Aeroworks

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/6/2009 10:16 PM

trpastor

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Maybe I'll have to give an edge a try sometime then. Thanks for the info. If I do that route I'll probably try to build light and see if I can get it several ounces lighter

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/10/2009 11:51 PM

ro347

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Has anyone seen a thread for the 60-90 yak?

Roland

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/13/2009 2:17 AM

RCHUGHES

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Guys, I have read this thread and Flown the Plane trying to get it to snap like y'all say it is doing and its not... I have tried several times to get it to snap, low and slow I have yanked on it..Mid throttle hard up and it just goes up, I have done a FULL speed wall (NOT Recommended, I was just testing) and I still couldn't get the thing to Snap out... not even a little bit. I am not trying to say its not doing it for you, all I am saying is check every possible thing, Lateral Balance, Engine Thrust, Blow back, trim, etc. This thing its on Rails for us!!
I'll shoot some video when the Family gets back from vacation

This plane flys Very Well for its size, but I see a lot of people bashing it for things that aern't really far, its a .60 size airplane with a pretty thin Wing, comparing it to a profile is unfar, most profiles have a fat wing which does tend to make it floaty, too many different varibles,

Wyatt Hughes

< Message edited by RCHUGHES -- 7/13/2009 2:31 AM >

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/13/2009 4:22 PM

victorzamora

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First off, let me say that your video is INREDIBLE! Great flying! Now, onto the nitty-gritty. Did you change the engine thrust angle? I have no idea how to change it, or check it, or anything of that sort. I'm VERY sure that I'm not experiencing blowback (130+ oz-in on ailerons and rudder and 67oz-in per elevator half). Every servo on my plane is MG, too...if that makes a difference. My CG is set at about 2-1/2" on the wingtip, will be moved up to 2-3/8" back soon. The problem is, most of my elevator-snappiness has gone away...but the plane is too nose-heavy to hover. I might need to increase the elevator throws (reduced them to appx 20* on high rates to reduce snapping) but it does not seem to want to stay up there. One thing this plane HAS always done well are rolling harriers. I can get mine to roll for a straight minute before I start falling behind

. However, its KE performance has suffered a little bit since moving the weight forward.

I realize this plane isn't going to fly like a 16oz foamy....but I was expecting it to fly better than mine currently is. Had I have not owned this plane, or had it flown to my expectations, I'd be on the waiting list for the 50cc Edge right now. I'm going to wait for a couple of its reviews to come in first, now. I'm willing to do as much work as is necessary to get this thing flying right, and would love to be able to say that I messed something up by setting it up wrong.

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/13/2009 8:55 PM

RCHUGHES

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The engine is a Saito 91 running on 15% fuel with the all up weight as seen in the video at 6lbs 10oz. The CG is 1/8" back from the spec in the manual making it 2 3/8" at the tip.

As for the thrust angle.. as far as I know it is right on que with the Aero-works Manual, I will say I didn't build the plane, it was my uncles and we just kinda share it lol, I do most the Flying and he does most of the Video,

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/13/2009 9:18 PM

trpastor

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did you guys do some lightening?

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/13/2009 11:05 PM

trpastor

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Hey Guys

So, I had a semi crash with this plane after it rocked out of hover and I was a little too close to the ground. I"ve learned a lot about planes for 3d in the last couple weeks since I've been flying/wrecked/rebuilding this plane.

1) I've heard it before but 60-90 size planes just aren't going to fly like the big boys (50cc and up)
2) if you go light you will have a more fragile plane. I had the fliton extra in this size and it was light, but I HATED that plane, UNTIL I got everything to stop falling apart. Then sadly I brougth it into the ground on a day I was sick and it reverse in the sun on me. But till then everything had to be reinforced or redone.

The aeroworks is a beautiful plane build and style wise. And it can take a decent amount of abuse due to it's build quality. But it will inevitably be a little heavier.

3) This plane CAN 3d, but it's just not going to float like a profile in it's size, or a big plane. So it's best for a intermediate pilot wanting a GREAT LOOKING scale plane, but don't expect it to fly like the simulator 40% planes. Nothing will, but the closest things will either be profiles (I love how they fly and I have one in this size but their a little ugly if you ask me) or the fliton extra, but it was a pain to build and had many issues along the way.

The aeroworks was a PLEASURE to build, the most beautiful plane (engineered) I've seen in it's size, and flies VERY well, but since it's not a profile, and since it isn't an eggshell, it is going to do somethings well (rolling harriers, knife edge, beginning precision, sport) but it's not going to be the easiest to all out 3D with (hover, upright harrier). Plus the extra 260 was not the best design for this type of flying anyway.

For what it is, I don't think there's a better plane in it's class. Don't by it to LEARN 3D on. But if you want a great looking plane that flies really well, is built really well, goes together easy and has a company that stands behind thier product, go for it. Rocco from Aeroworks went through the effort of going over all this information with me and was willing to work with me on replacing my fuselage, even though it was purely pilots error (not really error, but getting too brazen for my skills and trying to make the plane something it wasn't)

If you want a floater, buy a 50cc plane, or a profile.

I hope this ends up helping someone in their progress in RC. It's information I was given in bits and pieces, but have finally realized to be true. Sometimes you just have to learn for yourself though I guess.

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/13/2009 11:29 PM

RCHUGHES

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quote:

ORIGINAL: trpastor

did you guys do some lightening?

No ours is how it is out of the box, the Only thing we made a mod on was the Rudder pull-pull, instead of using the Pull-Pull we mounted the rudder servo in the back, I don't believe you get any advantage with it back there, other than changing CG without adding weight, we just don't like pull pull, I have had 2 break on me in the air and have heard numberous incedents (NOTE: this is NOT an Aero-works issue, I do this with all my Planes)

BTW: Trpastor... do you fly with a Bob Schepple ???...... if so tell em' Wyatt said Hi!

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/14/2009 3:26 AM

trpastor

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No, I don't think so. Is he in STL? I may though and just don't know his last name.

Tim

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/14/2009 6:09 AM

trpastor

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Hey guys - New report!

I don't have it all together yet, so I don't know how it flies, but I did put everything in, so I would know what wieght I'm looking at.

My plane came in originally at 6-15 to 7lbs.

To lighten it I did the following

Prop - from apc to wooden prop (1.5oz)
Lipo/regulator from 6v nicad pack (2oz)
NO wheelpants (2oz total)
Dubro Tailwheel (.5oz)
Cut holes under fuel tank, in top and bottom of firewall (3/4oz?)
Micro Servo for throttle (1oz)
Replace Axel/4wheel collars with bolt nut (.5oz)

These are all approximate.

My NEW weight is..................................................6lbs 5oz!

That should take my wing loading from 23.3oz/sqin to 21oz!!!

I'm not sure yet what effect this will have on the plane, but I'm excited to see.

I don't have it all 100% ready, so that could go up slightly (foam under battery and zip ties, but I think it will stay pretty close. Just wanted to let you guys know. I'll keep you updated
Tim

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/15/2009 12:00 AM

trpastor

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Hey Guys

I've got it all totally together except for final placement of the battery. I know I had said that the 6/5 would probably go up when I was done. Well, I had a little bit of fuel in the tank last night. Completely drained it, put in all screws and remeasured.

6lbs 4oz!!!!!!!!!!!

My fliton was 6lbs even, and was a pain in the ass to build, did not look nearly as good, and was likely more fragile. I did cut some lightening holes in the firewall and under fuel tank, so we'll see how that holds up. My expectation is that it's a non issue unless I have a hard enough crash that something was going to give.

I'm going to see if I can get some video up for you guys now that's it's lighter see how it flies

Would you guys be interested in seeing it??

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/15/2009 1:29 AM

victorzamora

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Absolutely. Congrats on getting it to 6-4!!! I might start hacking away at stuff below my fuel tank and top/bottom of the firewall like you described. The wheelpants might have to go, too....especially if you say that it flies significantly better.

One thing I'm going to check is stab alignment. I've got a laser level and I'm going to make sure that my horizontal is PERFECTLY lined up with my wings.

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/15/2009 4:39 AM

trpastor

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Ok, I'll see what I can do on getting some video. and I'll of course let you know my feelings on it.

I think I'm going to get pants, but the ones for the fliton were only 1/4 oz each I think. I'm sure I can find some super thin ones like that. The AW ones were pretty robust. More than you probably need.

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RE: New 60-90 Extra 260 - 7/16/2009 8:48 PM

trpastor

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Hey Guys

WHOLE NEW PLANE!!!! I HIGHLY recommend trying to lighten up your plane. Mine originally was right about 6 -15. It is now between 6-4 6-5. It floats. It hovers, it harriers, WAAAAAAYYYYY Better than before.

This plane now flies as good as I remember teh Fliton Extra 330s flying, ONLY it looks WAY better in my opinion, Is better built, is stronger, and has a company that backs up their product.

I will get some video when I can. It may be 2 weeks, but I will get some to show you guys.

AEROWORKS .... You should have a spot in the manual ... How to lighten your plane. Give some suggestions/ideas at your own risk for those who want to try lightening it. It is very worth the effort.

Online it says between 6-6.5lbs. I did get to 6.25, but I used pretty extreme measures on a copule things, but you certainly can get between there.

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