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Graphite VS Carbon Fiber

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Old 10-09-2008, 03:43 PM
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ASSOCIATED_DRIVER
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Default Graphite VS Carbon Fiber

I have an RC10 Graphite - and it sure does look like Carbon Fiber.

But what is the difference. Which one is better. Or is it really the same thing?

I am seing parts on ebay being sold as Carbon Fiber, but unless they were custom made, I know they are Graphite.
Old 10-09-2008, 04:03 PM
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Default RE: Graphite VS Carbon Fiber

Both graphite and carbon fiber are made up of carbon atoms but in different ways. See below from wikipedia, but it's not always reliable so see further below.

The atomic structure of carbon fiber is similar to that of graphite, consisting of sheets of carbon atoms (graphene sheets) arranged in a regular hexagonal pattern. The difference lies in the way these sheets interlock. Graphite is a crystalline material in which the sheets are stacked parallel to one another in regular fashion. The chemical bonds between the sheets are relatively weak Van der Waals forces, giving graphite its soft and brittle characteristics. Depending upon the precursor to make the fiber, carbon fiber may be turbostratic or graphitic, or have a hybrid structure with both graphitic and turbostratic parts present. In turbostratic carbon fiber the sheets of carbon atoms are haphazardly folded, or crumpled, together. Carbon fibers derived from Polyacrylonitrile (PAN) are turbostratic, whereas carbon fibers derived from mesophase pitch are graphitic after heat treatment at temperatures exceeding 2200 C. Turbostratic carbon fibers tend to have high tensile strength, whereas heat-treated mesophase-pitch-derived carbon fibers have high Young's modulus and high thermal conductivity.

A carbon fiber is a long, thin strand of material about 0.0002-0.0004 in (0.005-0.010 mm) in diameter and composed mostly of carbon atoms. The carbon atoms are bonded together in microscopic crystals that are more or less aligned parallel to the long axis of the fiber. The crystal alignment makes the fiber incredibly strong for its size. Several thousand carbon fibers are twisted together to form a yarn, which may be used by itself or woven into a fabric. The yarn or fabric is combined with epoxy and wound or molded into shape to form various composite materials. Carbon fiber-reinforced composite materials are used to make aircraft and spacecraft parts, racing car bodies, golf club shafts, bicycle frames, fishing rods, automobile springs, sailboat masts, and many other components where light weight and high strength are needed.

Graphite is a polymorph of the element carbon. diamond is another polymorph. The two share the same chemistry, carbon, but have very different structures and very different properties.
Diamond is the hardest mineral known to man, Graphite is one of the softest.
Diamond is an excellent electrical insulator, Graphite is a good conductor of electricity.
Diamond is the ultimate abrasive, Graphite is a very good lubricant.
Diamond is usually transparent, Graphite is opaque.
Diamond crystallizes in the Isometric system and graphite crystallizes in the hexagonal system.
Somewhat of a surprise is that at surface temperatures and pressures, Graphite is the stable form of carbon. In fact, all diamonds at or near the surface of the Earth are currently undergoing a transformation into Graphite. This reaction, fortunately, is extremely slow.
Old 10-09-2008, 06:35 PM
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SAVAGEJIM
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Default RE: Graphite VS Carbon Fiber

ORIGINAL: ASSOCIATED_DRIVER

I have an RC10 Graphite - and it sure does look like Carbon Fiber.

But what is the difference. Which one is better. Or is it really the same thing?

I am seing parts on ebay being sold as Carbon Fiber, but unless they were custom made, I know they are Graphite.
What Druss said.

More on why CF is better: the fibers, as Druss said, are strands, these stands are nano tubes of carbon, and yes, they will conduct electricity to (that is why some electronics get interferences form CF, the electricity coursing up and down th nano tubes creates EM fields). Nano tubes are capable of beaing tremendous amounts of tensional forces, so in good arangements (cross-hatch weave in most RC parts), they can be very strong pieces for their size and weight. The only weak points are the resins used to hold the tubes together and where one tube is not electronically bonded to another (i.e. by the carbon chemical bonds).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube

Most nano tubes occur naturally today, but fabrication tecniques will catch up sooner or later. What will be a breakthrough is when nano tubes can be constructed from individual carbon atoms in a crontrolled manner so you can make nano tubes of specific lengths and diameters. Then, using a nano loom to weave them into nano tube fabrics, you can make virtually anything that will bear tensional forces. Wrap those around a wire rebar structure and use resin to hold tha fabric in place, you will have pieces with superior strengths but still very light. Develop a method to connect one nano tube open end to another to make a single nano tube, and you eliminate the weak point at the edges of CF parts

Graphite is mostly made up of "Bucky Balls" or spherical carbon structures. "Bucky" comes from the person credited for the building architectural structural matrix seen in graphite balls. This person is R. Buckminster Fuller (I do not know if he actually went by "Bucky," but the discovers of graphite balls made this name stick).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene

Since Bucky balls do not chemically bond to one another, when you put them all together to make RC structures (graphite parts), they are undoubtely weaker than nano tube RC parts (CF parts). Yes a Bucky ball is a very very hard structure to break apart, but that strength is not seen when one Bucky ball is held to another Bucky ball with only resin. A good comparison (or exageration) is like taking two diamonds and using Elmer's white glue to hold them together in hopes of making one larger diamond. It does not work. Each individual diamond is very hard and very strong, but the two glued together diamonds can be ripped apart by your fingers easily because the glue is very very weak as compared to carbon-carbon chemical bonds.
Old 10-10-2008, 03:33 PM
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ASSOCIATED_DRIVER
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Default RE: Graphite VS Carbon Fiber

Great info!

Thanks

Are there any obvious visual or physical characteristic to identify if the material is Graphite or CF.

One thing I noticed is that graphite fibers tend to be larger, CF have a finer weave and glossy finish.
Old 10-10-2008, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Graphite VS Carbon Fiber


ORIGINAL: ASSOCIATED_DRIVER

Great info!

Thanks

Are there any obvious visual or physical characteristic to identify if the material is Graphite or CF.

One thing I noticed is that graphite fibers tend to be larger, CF have a finer weave and glossy finish.

The easiest wasy to identify CF from graphite is looking at the part itself. Graphite parts look homogoneous and uniform thoroughout teh surface. But CF looks like little checker squares all over the surface. The checker squares are t6he weaver pattern (or attempt at weave pattern) of the nanotuves. Supposedly, the nanotubes are aligned with each otehr and aer woven like a fabric and then resin is put on them to hold them into place.

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