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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/26/2012 8:24 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		Glad to hear your back at it Anthony.


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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/26/2012 8:31 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Will be good to get the Waco back in flying shape. I have too many planes I want to build and need to get this one out of the way 1st.

Not looking forward to the hundreds of feet or rib tapes and all the stitching. This time around the rib stitching will not be simulated I will be stitching the fabric to the ribs. The wife is no longer working so she is going to help with the finishing .
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/26/2012 8:53 PM   
Cub Flyer Fresno



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Status: offline 		Ah, you lucky dog you!  You are lucky aren't you Anthony?

Speaking of rib stitching, you've reminded me I have to get the stuff for my Cub!  Thanks for posting that and good luck on the stitching.  I'll be real curious to see how that goes!


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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/26/2012 11:15 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I just finished stripping the fabric from the last wing panel and evidently I have a mouse in the basement that decided he likes to chew balsa I will have to reinforce a couple of ribs thanks to the little critter. Mouse traps being depolyed tonight.

All 4 wing panels suffered broken root ribs during the crash and I have new ribs to replace them. I found a couple cap strips that popped loose and other than the mouse damage the wings require very little work.

David,
I think the rib stitching will be an adventure. It will be basically just like covering a full size Waco as I will me making as many stitches and knots as the full scale. One thing about faux stitches is you do not get the pucker(indintation) of the sticth in the fabric like you do on the full scale. Hopefully this turns out like I hope.
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/27/2012 4:21 AM   
Cricklewood


 

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Status: offline 		Anthony,

What size and type of thread will you be using for the rib stitching? I have a 1/4 scale plane that I want to do real rib stitching on but have not yet determined what size thread to use.

Thanks,

Chris
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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/27/2012 1:46 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Hi CHris,
I will have to check into it a bit further. I was thinking of upholstery grade cord. This is probably going to be one of those things where if you use a scale thread(1/4 or 1/3) it would be too small and you just wouldn't be able to see the stitch as you would want. The cord they use on the full scale actyally flattens out pretty good when they stitch the fabric. They usually rub the stict down then apply the tapes over the stitch. There are some really good video's on Youtube showing the stitching process.

The build on this plane take me around 20 months the 1st time around. I am hoping to have the fuse built and ready to re-cover the plane in February.
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/27/2012 5:11 PM   
wphilb


 

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Status: offline 		I would recommend doing some testing on a fake wing panel before doing it on the "real" thing. Several folks I am aware of trying it all said that the holes in the covering opened up too wide after puncture, making real stitching impractical. If you don't have that issue, this thread will really help some folks!

Whit

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/27/2012 6:04 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Whit,
I will be applying an underyling tape over the rib and fabric before the stitching as per the full scale. This tape is to keep the stitch from pulling a large hole in the fabric. As you will see in the video link there is a decent size hole created by the needle. This will be covered and sealed by the top rib tape. Also intresting is they are using a flat cord for sticthing.



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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/28/2012 6:21 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I have been making some progress on the Waco, the fuse box is dry assembled. The design allows the box to be assembled with screws and get everything aligned correctly you then remove all the screws from one side and apply glue/epoxy and reassemble. I will have to place a wood order for the 3/16x3/8 stringers as I will be needing them soon. The fuse is going to go together pretty quick this time around.

Alot of the parts that took quite a bit of time to get fitted the last time around like the nose ring, fiberglass hood and the tail fairing will be used on this fuselage which is going to save alot of work. I am beginning to think I will have a good shot of having the Waco flight ready this spring if I don't get bogged down on the details and finish.
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/28/2012 6:39 PM   
docadams


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Anthony,I am glad you are making progress on the Waco. I just thought I would let you know what I found out was wrong with mine. Dany said I should have 3 degrees positive on the stab. I double checked and found out that I had 3 degrees on one side of the stab and 1 degree on the other. After getting into the problem it appears the left side of the stab moved during construction. The stab was not level making the difference in incidence. I have corrected it and I am looking forward to flying it again to see how it does. Good luck on your build,Curtis

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/28/2012 8:42 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Hi Curtis,
Glad you found the issue. Looking at how my Waco broke during the crash I had made several errors in the area of the fuse that shattered. I removed a cross member at the front cockpit and didn't add any structure in the area to make up for the difference. I also removed too much of the tri-stock around the top cabane wires where they attach to the fuse for clearnce of the blind nuts and bolts. The top cabane wires ripped out of the 1/4 lite-ply and contributed to the failure of the fuse. I believe without these errors I would have been just repairing the fuse and not building a new one. I stronly suggest adding extra bracing around the cabane blind nuts if you can get to them.

On the new fuse I am going to put a cockpit cover over the front cockpit and leave all the crossmembers intact and add some spruce over the top of the tri-stock where it is notched to clear the blind nuts. This should make the front end a bit stronger. You can't really see much of the front cockpit anyhomw and I would rather error on the side of strength this time around.

Curtis, What tail wheel did you use on your Waco? The one I had on mine was a bit too soft. I want to get a harder on to install this time around.
Later!!
Anthony

< Message edited by WacoNut -- 12/28/2012 9:15 PM >

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/28/2012 9:17 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Now the pic post is working here is a pic of a Jenny being restored. This shows very well the rib stitching detail. You see the underlying tape showing thru at the top of the rib and the pucker created in the fabric at the stitch.
Later!!
Anthony

Attachments
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Click for fullsize


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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 12:05 AM   
Cub Flyer Fresno



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Status: offline 		Ah, if you can get that look, that will be awesome.   Hey, what scale Jenny is that anyway?  Looks mighty big! 


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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 12:09 AM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		That is a full scale Jenny that Brian Karli is building. I have been following his blog for the past few years. He is doing amazing work. I plan on begging a ride from him one of these days. Do a google search for Curtis Jenny restoration and you will find his blog.
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 12:13 AM   
Cub Flyer Fresno



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Status: offline 		Cool, thanks, will do!

BTW, I was only joking, I kinda figured it was a 100% scale. 

Oh, and another BTW; I'm still waiting to get my ride in a Cub restored by a local pilot.  I got a lot of close up looking at his to help build mine.  Can't wait!


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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 1:59 AM   
docadams


 

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Status: offline 		Anthony,I am using a 2 inch Sullivan Skylight wheel. It is fairly hard and has been holding up just fine. I do support the tail when the plane is in storage to keep from flat spotting the wheel. I am posting a couple of pics.

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 2:00 AM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I did a little more work and have the firewall in the proper position and epoxied to the fuse top. Tomorrow I will glue/epoxy each side of the fuse in place. With any luck I will have the cabane, landing gear and fin installed by the time I have to go back to work on Wed. After that it is pretty much just add the formers, stringer and a little sheeting. I will post some pics tomorrow.
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 2:02 AM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Thanks Curtis I will check them out.

We are getting ready to get 4-5" of snow tonight and I just remembered we are out of cat food so I am off to the store.
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 3:44 AM   
chuck l


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: docadams

Hi Anthony,I am glad you are making progress on the Waco. I just thought I would let you know what I found out was wrong with mine. Dany said I should have 3 degrees positive on the stab. I double checked and found out that I had 3 degrees on one side of the stab and 1 degree on the other. After getting into the problem it appears the left side of the stab moved during construction. The stab was not level making the difference in incidence. I have corrected it and I am looking forward to flying it again to see how it does. Good luck on your build,Curtis

Positive incidence, on the stab, does that mean the trailing edge is higher than the leading edge or is it the other way around?

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 4:16 AM   
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Status: online 		Leading edge is higher than the trailing edge for positve incidence for both the wing and the stab.
Usually referenced to the datum line.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/29/2012 4:38 AM >

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 11:39 AM   
docadams


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Chuck,John is correct. The front of the stab should be higher than the rear. If you are building the AMR Waco this incidence is set by the use of a jig provided with the kit. In my case I apparently failed to do enough double checking before gluing. If you follow the instructions provided with the kit you should be fine. I only mentioned my problem to Anthony because I had mentioned the problem to him before I actually knew what had caused my problem so I just wanted to clear up what actually happened. Regards,Curtis

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 12:02 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Hi Chuck,
All Waco's should have some positive incidence in the stab. Not sure what the Barth kit calls for but I am sure he has some positive incidence built ino tthe design.

Plenty of snow on the ground this morning. Going to get some coffee in me and start back on the Waco.
Later!!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 12:17 PM   
chuck l


 

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Status: online 		Thanks for the replies. As Anthony noted, I'm building the Barth third scale Waco. In the manual, Peter states "The AoA of the horizontal stabilizer should be 2 degrees (trailing edge up)." This actually is a negative incidence. I going to have to follow up on statement based on what you guys are saying.

Chuck

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 12:22 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I would double check that. I know the Pica Waco also calls for positive incidence.

It could be he has the incidence set up on the main wings requiring different for the stab. The top wing on the AMR is -0- in relation to the thrust line.
Later!
Anthony

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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build - 12/29/2012 2:22 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I have the fuse box all glued up and drying. The firewall is also epoxied into place and tri-stock added to the back side. Once the epoxy has cured I will pin the firewall to the fuse sides,top and bottom. This worked out well the 1st time around. The firewall remained intact to the fuse.

I have been putting off removing the fin/rudder from the old fuse and I am going to need it soon so I guess I need to bite the bullet and get it done. The landing gear also needs a little attention before mounting to the new fuse. I will get this work completed while the epoxy is curing. I am using System Three T-88 structural epoxy and it takes a while to kick and about 24hrs for full cure. Very good epoxy and seems to penetrate the wood better than the average hobby epoxy.
Later!!
Anthony

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