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Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/14/2008 9:34 AM   
mydartswinger



Posts: 1265
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From: Gilmer, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I was looking around doing some research on starting a career as a heli pilot (never taken the sticks of a real heli, but have flown a UH-60 full motion simulator), and stumbled across PHPA's (Professional Helicopter Pilot's Association) website. I noticed that they had a heli screensaver, so I downloaded it and installed it on my computer. While watching the images of Eucril's, Jet Rangers, MD/Hughes 500's, KMaxes and the like, one in particular caught my eye. A counter rotating, coaxial helicopter!!! I stopped in my tracks to do a double take, as I've never heard of or seen a full size heli like that. I've seen and flown in CH-47's, seen pics of the KMax, and seen pics/videos of the CH-46, but never one with the blades right on top of each other, such as seen on the current breed of coaxial electric RC helis. It was late when I noticed it, so I didn't look it up until just a bit ago. Difficult to find info on when you don't even know who makes the thing or a model number. After a few minutes of searching, I stumbled on an engineer's forum that was talking about coaxial rotor heads, and low and behold, there was a link to one that was done. I followed the link, and guess what. It was the same type in the picture on the screen saver. Come to find out, it's a Russian made Kamov KA-32A, found here.

Whoa!!! While I was posting this, I went to Google to look for a company page or something of the like, and found a timeline of Kamov helicopter's production, found here. They have made several models, including the V-80/KA-50 "Black Shark" attack helicopters. Just about all of their models have been coaxials, except for the late 1990's (about 1998), when they made a couple of "standard" configuration helis. Cool.

Now if only the RC companies would make a fuselage that looks like that for their coaxials, we could actually have scale counter rotators, ushering in a new era of scale RC helis. People would be stuck with more counter rotating Jet Rangers, Blackhawks, Bell 222's, etc... if they were to do that. They could choose them if they wanted, but they would have the choice of getting a fuse that would actually make it more "true scale" (same fuse design and head configuration as the full size) vs. the current "partial scale" (same fuse design, but with a coaxial head instead of the single main + tail rotor of the full size). I wonder how a larger nitro, gas or turbine version would fly, hmmmm.

Just thought I'd share this find with the RCU heli community for those who are like me and never heard of a full scale coaxial.

Happy flying.

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/16/2008 1:46 AM   
BarracudaHockey



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From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Here's a model of one
http://scalehelicopters.org/ka50.html

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/16/2008 2:00 AM   
mydartswinger



Posts: 1265
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From: Gilmer, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Very cool "Alligator". To bad none of the major scale manufacturers make a .50 or .90 size glow/electric version of it. I guess that system with collective pitch (vs. fixed pitch on the beginner RC coaxials) mandates a larger bird.

Happy flying.

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/17/2008 5:31 PM   
sixinarow


 

Posts: 56
Joined: 12/17/2004
Last Login: 5/8/2012
From: Parker, CO, USA
Status: offline 		That is awesome! I'm still drooling over the pictures from his build. I'm still trying to get the mental picture of how yaw is controlled with his rudder servo. I read the part about it but it's still confusing me.

Anyway, back on topic. Those Kamovs are very cool. I wouldn't mind flying the Ka-115. I haven't heard much of it's progress lately.

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/20/2008 12:06 AM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: offline 		I've seen it fly in person, its pretty darn cool. It's also the first time I've seen a turbine shut down in flight and auto down.

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/20/2008 7:07 AM   
mydartswinger



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Status: offline 		Doesn't speak well for the quality of the aircraft.

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/20/2008 8:16 AM   
Rafael23cc



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mydartswinger

Doesn't speak well for the quality of the aircraft.



Are you referring to the engine shutting down and the heli autoing down?

Engines stop all the time for various reasons. The fact that the heli was able to auto down (and I'm assuming that it landed in one piece) speaks volumes for the design, and the skills of the pilot. The engine shut down although important is out of the control of the designer.

Rafael

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/20/2008 4:49 PM   
mydartswinger



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quote:

Are you referring to the engine shutting down and the heli autoing down?

Engines stop all the time for various reasons.


That is true. I am aware that the turbines in Bell, Boeing, MD/Hughes, Sikorsky, Eurocopter helis and the like shut down as well. I was using it in the context of it being the first time he saw a turbine shut down in flight. If most people were to see that happen the first time they saw a helicopter (even one of the more popular helis), they would not think very highly of that brand or helicopters in general. But then again, to see a helicopter perform an auto and land safely may change some peoples minds on the safety of helicopters (how they are viewed as a flying brick). Even though helis in general have a better glide path than some airplanes.

quote:

The fact that the heli was able to auto down (and I'm assuming that it landed in one piece) speaks volumes for the design, and the skills of the pilot.


Very true. I've seen pictures of a heli that autorotated down in just the right spot. If he had gone any more in any direction he would've been in a river or in trees. I talked to the pilot less than 6 hours after it happened. Very impressive in my book.

quote:

The engine shut down although important is out of the control of the designer.


That depends on how often it happens compares to other turbines. If it happens significantly more than others, then there may be a problem with the design. If it happens on par or less than other designs, then it would be just something that happened on that flight (maybe even an intentional demo of the heli's capabilities).

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/20/2008 8:50 PM   
Rafael23cc



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Status: offline 		mydartswinger:

Are we still talking about the RC helicopter BarracudaHockey mentioned? I know a lot about RC helicopters, very little about full scale helis. Not enough about full scale turbine engines.

Rafael

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RE: Full Scale Coaxial Heli - 12/21/2008 4:01 AM   
mydartswinger



Posts: 1265
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Status: offline 		Full scale. I spaced thinking he was talking about the real deal, not the RC .

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