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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 12:06 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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Status: offline 		and #4 is doing what people say can't be done by putting a .21 in a 1/10 scale car.

nitrorevo, I haven't a clue on if they both would be the same speed with the same gearing and all but I will say that "IF" you are racing which is what we do around here, my CD3 using the big tires and I coat the tires with automotive belt dressing before a race and the only .12, .15 or .21 that can come close can take the big tire CD3 home with them if they wanted it. I know you aren't stressing this part of it but by the time I am so far out and ahead, most guys just quit racing because a 6-8 car gap and pulling after about 2 seconds will make second place guy think that he has no chance to catch me in a 150' race and they are right. The big .21's and larger motors IMO will out MPH a .12 or .15 "IF" your internals are light enuff to turn more RPM's than what the factory says plus most bigger motors have more downside TQ at 35-38,000 RPM range than a .12 does at peak TQ in the 20,000 RPM ranges.

In that vid nitrorevo, I still have the stock gearing that came with the CD3 whereas I have optional gearing that I can go to for more top speeds and I plan on doing so this spring.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 12:36 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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Status: offline 		nitrorevo, I just saw where you were asking about the WPR engine mounts. I bought a set of those and they didn't fit my engine. The block was too wide at the bottom and the way the WPR bolt hole goes down for the steel insert to bolt down to, it was too crocked so that is when I just got some solid aluminum stock and made my own. I still have some of that stock if you need some but you gotta drill/tap your engine mount holes and the holes to mount the mounts to the chassis.

nitrorevo, go for it man. I would love to have another "nasty" 1/10 scale buddy, not that your aren't already but you know what I mean. I just can't see a .12 running the same speeds as the .21 as long as the .21 has been modded with timing work to get more peak RPM's. My car with a full tank of fuel is 3.5 lbs. and I must say that with this .21 in it, it will throw that car around if I wanted to like you or I tossing paper around. I use AAA batteries instead of AA's. I lightened the chassis by cutting out alot of aluminum. Here's a stock chassis compared to the one I modified.


Doing this made a big difference in weight. Now I can just add the 1:1 tire weights to the car if I need to in a controlled drag race and heave to get up to weight.

Oh and NO it did not hamper the chassis at all and didn't hurt the control of the car. I only cut the chassis out like this after seeing the LD3 optional pro chassis that OFNA makes and it was swiss cheese too so I said go for it and I did.

< Message edited by Brent Davis -- 1/2/2009 12:38 AM >

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 1:46 AM   
maoy


 

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Brent,

After waching your nasty CD3/Kangaroo video a few more time, I couldn't help but think just how fast that thing would end up being in such a small car. So I started comparing the x-dyno graphs of my Ab modded Picco JLR .12 and P9R.21. I wanted to figure out just how much faster the .21 would be, apples to apples, same car, gearing, tires, ect.

I started having a PM discussion with Maoy and he plugged the numbers in his formula and got 75mph in the RS4 at 40k rpm. I tried to play with it, but I blew up the calculator and gave me a headache. I ain't to good with PI.

Long story short I found this simple Excel spread sheet that does the math for you. This is not my work, and I take no credit for it. It belongs to a guy screen named "Thirdgen89gta" fromthe IGT forum. What's really nice is the graph will give you the top as the gearing is changed and based on the rpm of your engine. I used peak rpm, not max as that's when the HP is highest.

I doing this research. What's crazy is, reducing the weight of the car, has nothing to do with top speed at all, only acceleration. It's gearing, rpm and tire diameter for calcualting terminal speed.

Here is the link, you can save it and play with the gearing, tire diameter, etc. Enjoy

http://home.comcast.net/~thirdgen89gta/rc/rc_speed_calculator.xls

Brent, Mike(OverrevO) got 73/74 with his P9R in the DM-1. I know nothing about the car, but am curious to see how the spreadsheet comes out based on Mike test. Ref: The P9R peaks at about 34K. Most 28's are 29K and under and a good .12 about 38K.


Yea, I got that sheet as well from the other forum. It gives a good chart comparing top speed versus rpm.

Hey Brent, what do you mean the WPR mounts won't work with your CD3? Explain again please.

As far as these big block engines in small scale car goes, I think it is awesome. It is like building a street dragster to burn fuel for fun sometimes. It's fun to see these little cars literally fly. It is the acceleration that is really amazing because it seems like these cars are defying the laws of physics with all this power. I will probably try to get more onroad .21 engines and get them all AB modded. Maybe even drag mod them out. Well, let's see what the future holds.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 2:26 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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Status: offline 		What I mean is that you may have to clearance the WPR mounts a little to get engine block clearance. They are pretty good mounts and all that but I also chose not to use them since they are part aluminum, part steel. They are heavier than an all aluminum mount and weight savings is what I was after as well.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 2:33 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest


quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300


quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest

i dont think an outlaw .21 class would be to much fun at all, since all the weight on the cars on such small cars would make them almost impossible to drive on a cirrcut track correctly AND not to mention the run times are going to be what 3 minuets??? 75CC on a .21 engine ud refuel every to often..... for outlaw circut track a .18 is the best MAX have u ever used a 18TZ it makes some 21 look real sorry

......................Never had a problem in the handling department with my Big Block Fusions and Nitro TC-3 but I believe that was because I ran 1/8 scale tires instead of narrow tires so I always had plenty of grip.


Grip is one this but did you ever take your car to a ACTUAL circut track??? no offence but the 8th scale and 10th scale would prolly run CIRCLES around you a big motor and big tires isnt going to make you faster on the track, chassis balance, low center gravity, and YEARS of RND work is what makes a great racing car this is why people buy SERPENT MUGEN and KOYSHO type cars to the track sure your handling prolly inpoved a good amount but to compare a fusion to a high end race bread car is like comparing apples to oranges, the day you can take either one of you car and make it to the top 5 in any AMAIN either 10th scale or 8th scale.....THEN is when ill be like OK I WAS WRONG like i sayed a .21 size 10th scale class is pretty much worthless, if you really wanna do big things on a GOOD CHASSIS the old serpent IMPACT or 835 (both 235MM Class) is a great choice since the car did come from the facotry big block ready and actually use 15 BIG BLOCK motors.....21's and higher where a dirrect drop in SERPENT AND MUGEN DROPPED THE BALL THAT CLASS SHOULD HAVE NEVER DIED THERE GREED KILL OFF THE 235MM CLASS

My cars handles great, top end speed, and all around good car but there is no way in hell i could take a HPI RACER 2 to a track against serpents mugen and kyoshos and actually expect to win anything, besides ill stick to narrow tires less tires less frition.........the only thing needed is a set up board a little trail and error and my big block cars drive like champs with no issues
....................I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FUSIONS RACING 1/10 !! WHEN I REFER TO AN OUTLAW CLASS ALL THE CARS WOULD BE OUTLAWS RUNNING AGAINST OTHER CARS THAT HAVE BIG BLOCKS IN THEM NOT RACING AGAINST 1/10 SCALE CARS WITH .12's And the track would be big with sweeping turns long straightaways and not super technical and tight.


< Message edited by nitrohead5300 -- 1/2/2009 2:55 AM >

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 2:54 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300
My cars handles great, top end speed, and all around good car but there is no way in hell i could take a HPI RACER 2 to a track against serpents mugen and kyoshos and actually expect to win anything, besides ill stick to narrow tires less tires less frition.........the only thing needed is a set up board a little trail and error and my big block cars drive like champs with no issues
....................WHEN I REFER TO AN OUTLAW CLASS ALL THE CARS WOULD BE OUTLAWS RUNNING AGAINST OTHER CARS THAT HAVE BIG BLOCKS IN THEM NOT RACING AGAINST 1/10 SCALE CARS WITH .12's And the track would be big with sweeping turns long straightaways and not super technical and tight. And I have beatin Serpents on my parking lot track that had long staightaways and sweeping turns but I got beatin when I raced them on technical tracks but not by much.


That's good news there and I never thought about a big track with wider turns and LONG straights. I bet that would be some fun right there but for me, I am into the drag racing more than course racing.

Guys I tell you though I really, really like these cars and like maoy said, it is the challenge of getting all that power to the ground.

BTW, I just got a e-mail from Wolfgang and he will be back to work on Monday and he now has a new adapter for 1/10 scale cars that want to use the real quick-loc deal that the 1/8 scale cars use............now THAT is what I am talking about. I have 2 sets on the way.


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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 2:57 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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Status: offline 		How much for the new adapters Brent??

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:08 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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Status: offline 		He told me $50 a set so I got 2 sets coming. One set "MAY" go for one of my CD3's but then too I may just keep them for spares.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:14 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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Status: offline 		THanks Brent. Brent my computer crashed big time yesterday lost all my pictures files etc do you have Ziggy's web address for his Fast RC site??

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:31 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

THanks Brent. Brent my computer crashed big time yesterday lost all my pictures files etc do you have Ziggy's web address for his Fast RC site??


Sure, sorry for that computer crash. That is why I save alot of photos on photobucket.com This way you will have that stuff for as long as you want it. I also back it up on a thumb-drive too.

http://www.fast-rc.co.uk/forum/index.php

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:42 AM   
MiamizFinest



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest


quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300


quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest

i dont think an outlaw .21 class would be to much fun at all, since all the weight on the cars on such small cars would make them almost impossible to drive on a cirrcut track correctly AND not to mention the run times are going to be what 3 minuets??? 75CC on a .21 engine ud refuel every to often..... for outlaw circut track a .18 is the best MAX have u ever used a 18TZ it makes some 21 look real sorry

......................Never had a problem in the handling department with my Big Block Fusions and Nitro TC-3 but I believe that was because I ran 1/8 scale tires instead of narrow tires so I always had plenty of grip.


Grip is one this but did you ever take your car to a ACTUAL circut track??? no offence but the 8th scale and 10th scale would prolly run CIRCLES around you a big motor and big tires isnt going to make you faster on the track, chassis balance, low center gravity, and YEARS of RND work is what makes a great racing car this is why people buy SERPENT MUGEN and KOYSHO type cars to the track sure your handling prolly inpoved a good amount but to compare a fusion to a high end race bread car is like comparing apples to oranges, the day you can take either one of you car and make it to the top 5 in any AMAIN either 10th scale or 8th scale.....THEN is when ill be like OK I WAS WRONG like i sayed a .21 size 10th scale class is pretty much worthless, if you really wanna do big things on a GOOD CHASSIS the old serpent IMPACT or 835 (both 235MM Class) is a great choice since the car did come from the facotry big block ready and actually use 15 BIG BLOCK motors.....21's and higher where a dirrect drop in SERPENT AND MUGEN DROPPED THE BALL THAT CLASS SHOULD HAVE NEVER DIED THERE GREED KILL OFF THE 235MM CLASS

My cars handles great, top end speed, and all around good car but there is no way in hell i could take a HPI RACER 2 to a track against serpents mugen and kyoshos and actually expect to win anything, besides ill stick to narrow tires less tires less frition.........the only thing needed is a set up board a little trail and error and my big block cars drive like champs with no issues
....................I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FUSIONS RACING 1/10 !! WHEN I REFER TO AN OUTLAW CLASS ALL THE CARS WOULD BE OUTLAWS RUNNING AGAINST OTHER CARS THAT HAVE BIG BLOCKS IN THEM NOT RACING AGAINST 1/10 SCALE CARS WITH .12's And the track would be big with sweeping turns long straightaways and not super technical and tight.




No need to get all upset man, but i just dont see it happening.......ur basically saying you need a track to suit your car and not the other way around in other words ud need something like a gaint oval like indy car raceing or something either way there is no need to get upset but honestly cant belive your fusion out running any serpent anywhere unless the serpent driver really sucked..........have you ever seen a trully dailed in serpent,mugen,kyosho on a prepped track with a good driver?? its freaking scary

BTW a parking lot track is not a track.....when i sayed TRACK i ment something with a driver stand, smooth as glass surface, prepped with traction compound and some kind of lap counting system

ON YOUR EVERYDAY type track, no a big block 1/10th scale wouldnt really make must sence becuase the power to weight ratio is just way off.........but a 1/10th scale with a 21 running on a HUGE AND I MEAN HUGE oval with only wide turns, and each car geared to about 85 MPH.............the would be sick but there would be to many pit stops unless the cars are fitted with bigger tanks

so you race at anyreal circut tracks??

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:45 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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Status: offline 		I wonder why there aren't any races that 1/10 scale cars can use the .18 TZ in? Is there such a class for the .18 TZ in on-road cars?

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:55 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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ORIGINAL: Brent Davis


quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

THanks Brent. Brent my computer crashed big time yesterday lost all my pictures files etc do you have Ziggy's web address for his Fast RC site??


Sure, sorry for that computer crash. That is why I save alot of photos on photobucket.com This way you will have that stuff for as long as you want it. I also back it up on a thumb-drive too.

http://www.fast-rc.co.uk/forum/index.php

...............THanks Brent

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 3:58 AM   
MiamizFinest



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I wonder why there aren't any races that 1/10 scale cars can use the .18 TZ in? Is there such a class for the .18 TZ in on-road cars?



Thats what the OUTLAW class is it exist in most tracks where the new guys can join with out have to drop in the big bucks, basicaly the rules are ANY 1/0th 200MM wide any small block, any pipe any body

i personally like the GRP 220MM class, which is actually ANY 1/10th scale car, but useing the new BIG wide GRP wheels but what realyl turns me on about the class is the fact it can use any lola style body and not just those ugly mazada 6 and dodge stratus bodies BUT i think there only use 12 size motors if they ran 18TZ............id prolly be the first one there

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:02 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest


quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest


quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300


quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest

i dont think an outlaw .21 class would be to much fun at all, since all the weight on the cars on such small cars would make them almost impossible to drive on a cirrcut track correctly AND not to mention the run times are going to be what 3 minuets??? 75CC on a .21 engine ud refuel every to often..... for outlaw circut track a .18 is the best MAX have u ever used a 18TZ it makes some 21 look real sorry

......................Never had a problem in the handling department with my Big Block Fusions and Nitro TC-3 but I believe that was because I ran 1/8 scale tires instead of narrow tires so I always had plenty of grip.


Grip is one this but did you ever take your car to a ACTUAL circut track??? no offence but the 8th scale and 10th scale would prolly run CIRCLES around you a big motor and big tires isnt going to make you faster on the track, chassis balance, low center gravity, and YEARS of RND work is what makes a great racing car this is why people buy SERPENT MUGEN and KOYSHO type cars to the track sure your handling prolly inpoved a good amount but to compare a fusion to a high end race bread car is like comparing apples to oranges, the day you can take either one of you car and make it to the top 5 in any AMAIN either 10th scale or 8th scale.....THEN is when ill be like OK I WAS WRONG like i sayed a .21 size 10th scale class is pretty much worthless, if you really wanna do big things on a GOOD CHASSIS the old serpent IMPACT or 835 (both 235MM Class) is a great choice since the car did come from the facotry big block ready and actually use 15 BIG BLOCK motors.....21's and higher where a dirrect drop in SERPENT AND MUGEN DROPPED THE BALL THAT CLASS SHOULD HAVE NEVER DIED THERE GREED KILL OFF THE 235MM CLASS

My cars handles great, top end speed, and all around good car but there is no way in hell i could take a HPI RACER 2 to a track against serpents mugen and kyoshos and actually expect to win anything, besides ill stick to narrow tires less tires less frition.........the only thing needed is a set up board a little trail and error and my big block cars drive like champs with no issues
....................I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FUSIONS RACING 1/10 !! WHEN I REFER TO AN OUTLAW CLASS ALL THE CARS WOULD BE OUTLAWS RUNNING AGAINST OTHER CARS THAT HAVE BIG BLOCKS IN THEM NOT RACING AGAINST 1/10 SCALE CARS WITH .12's And the track would be big with sweeping turns long straightaways and not super technical and tight.




No need to get all upset man, but i just dont see it happening.......ur basically saying you need a track to suit your car and not the other way around in other words ud need something like a gaint oval like indy car raceing or something either way there is no need to get upset but honestly cant belive your fusion out running any serpent anywhere unless the serpent driver really sucked..........have you ever seen a trully dailed in serpent,mugen,kyosho on a prepped track with a good driver?? its freaking scary

BTW a parking lot track is not a track.....when i sayed TRACK i ment something with a driver stand, smooth as glass surface, prepped with traction compound and some kind of lap counting system

ON YOUR EVERYDAY type track, no a big block 1/10th scale wouldnt really make must sence becuase the power to weight ratio is just way off.........but a 1/10th scale with a 21 running on a HUGE AND I MEAN HUGE oval with only wide turns, and each car geared to about 85 MPH.............the would be sick but there would be to many pit stops unless the cars are fitted with bigger tanks

so you race at anyreal circut tracks??

.................In the past I raced the midwest circut. I owned a 1/8 scale BMT 891 and a Serpent Vector I have modified motors and worked in a hobby shop so I know something about rc cars . I am also not stupid when I race against a Serpent I am going to stack the deck in my favor the track is going to have extra long straightaways so I can take advantage of my 3rd gear for topend speed.

< Message edited by nitrohead5300 -- 1/2/2009 4:06 AM >

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:09 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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Status: offline 		I think there are some modified 15 's that would be killer in the 220mm class.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:12 AM   
MiamizFinest



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Status: offline 		Then you should know the point im trying to get across, there is no need to bicker back and forth if you really belive in what your saying that start up a class at you local track and see how it goes!!! 2 years ago everyone thought the inferno gt class would never take off and look at it now!!!

anyways back on topic MOAY i gotta get some videos of my racer 2 running and yes is still use it all the time actually about once a week!!!

Brent have the guys at WolfPack talking about makeing any big block motor mounts for any other chassis??? i know i can pretty much drop any 21 in any 10th scale with a little time and dremeling but it wouldnt be a as clean isntall as something made by them......u know drop in and go!

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:22 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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Status: offline 		Miami we have been running outlaw for years at our local track The class I want to see develope is the 220mm class. I saw a video on the net where a guy was running his 220mm car with a really hot .12 against a 1/8 scale serpent and it was a seesaw race the lead would exchange back and forth between the 2 of them. I have a V-1RRR with an .18 TZ in it and I am crazy about it because it is fast but it really handles with the kamikaze extra wide tires on it.

< Message edited by nitrohead5300 -- 1/2/2009 4:30 AM >

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:31 AM   
MiamizFinest



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Miami we have been running outlaw for years at our local track


Outlaw what??? almost every onroad track has an outlaw class but with some kind of rules so what is your point?? my local track has an OUTLAW class to but not for .21 in 10th scale cars


In your tracks outlaw class you can use ANY MOTOR?

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:35 AM   
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Status: offline 		Outlaw 1/10 with .18 - .32 race what you bring.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:42 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MiamizFinest
Brent have the guys at WolfPack talking about makeing any big block motor mounts for any other chassis??? i know i can pretty much drop any 21 in any 10th scale with a little time and dremeling but it wouldnt be a as clean isntall as something made by them......u know drop in and go!


I'd love to see other guys cars in video too. That inspires me more to get even busier with my stuff.

I don't think they are interested in making any specific big block mounts other than the ones that they already make. I have one set and they are o.k., you just gotta make some clearancing on the block or mounts to get that perfect fit but then too what else is a solid bolt on with aftermarket RC stuff too.

I have a brand new .18 TZ that is RBmod ported and will break it in and get some vids of it as well to see how well it works in my big tire CD3 and one of the small tire CD3's. I've never owned a .18 TZ.....only seen them since a couple of friends had them but they still didn't have the nuts of a .21 in the mid to top end charge but I just want one of the cars to have a small block in it for a change.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:50 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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From: indpls, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Brent have you heard anything about the Orion CRF-.21 ??

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:52 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

Outlaw 1/10 with .18 - .32 race what you bring.



Now that is what I am talking about.

What is the biggest difference with a .32 engine since I haven't seen one inside? I know it has a bigger piston over a .21 and the crank is heavy. Right now my .28 Picco P3 has not made it to the CD3 just yet but I gotta install it and see how well it is going to run in the CD3 but with this motor modded by clockworks racing engines, it rips it's azz off and has ran 1.7's in my Pro-Mod car with limited traction and on the wheelie bars.

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 4:53 AM   
Brent Davis


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

Brent have you heard anything about the Orion CRF-.21 ??


Not at all. Is it supposed to be the new kid on the block sorta speak?

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RE: Nasty 1/10 scale on-road cars using .21 or larger e... - 1/2/2009 5:05 AM   
nitrohead5300


 

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Status: offline 		Yes high tech

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