RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets.   
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets.
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/5/2009 3:31 AM   
SinCityJets


 

Posts: 2249
Score: 105
Joined: 11/13/2005
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Henderson, NV, USA
Status: online 		Great write-up David!

_____________________________

www.evoJetUSA.com

U.S. Importer / Distributor for evoJet Booster Turbines
U.S. Importer / Distributor Lambert Kolibri Nano-Turbines

Hide Signatures

(in reply to David Gladwin)
       Post #: 76

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/5/2009 4:32 AM   
Guillermo Ibanez



Posts: 658
Score: 100
Joined: 11/28/2004
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Barranquilla, COLOMBIA
Status: offline 		David:

Thanks very much for this info.

Sure it helps a lot to understand Gyros.

I will read this article many times to be sure not missing anything on it.

I also am going to get the RCJI Magazine to get the pictures. By the way, which issue is it?

Thanks again

Guillermo


_____________________________

Guillermo Ibanez


Hide Signatures

(in reply to David Gladwin)
       Post #: 77

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/6/2009 3:32 AM   
Guillermo Ibanez



Posts: 658
Score: 100
Joined: 11/28/2004
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Barranquilla, COLOMBIA
Status: offline 		Hey Guys:

Want to know more about Gyros?

Read this:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/gyroscope.htm

You can understand better what David wrote.

Guillermo



_____________________________

Guillermo Ibanez


Hide Signatures

(in reply to Guillermo Ibanez)
       Post #: 78

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/6/2009 10:10 AM   
SpiderJets



Posts: 1355
Score: 105
Joined: 12/26/2001
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Congratulations, David. This was one of the best posts on RCU since many years.

Nicolas.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Guillermo Ibanez)
       Post #: 79

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/6/2009 10:25 AM   
David Gladwin



Posts: 2368
Score: 100
Joined: 2/5/2002
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thank you for your kind comments gentlemen, so very much appreciated. This is one of the articles I did for RCJI where I try hard, very hard, to make my contributions to the magazine topical, informative, technically as accurate as I can make it, and possibly even a little educational.

I very much hope that I will, in the very near future, be able to do a similar article(s) on the forthcoming Weatronic 2.4 receiver which is so much more than a 2.4 gig rehash of an existing product, the preliminary information I have on the new products suggest it is going to be major step forward in radio control. Just waiting for the production hardware.

Thank you again for your kindness.

Regards,

David.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SpiderJets)
       Post #: 80

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/7/2009 1:21 PM   
jescardin


 

Posts: 243
Score: 100
Joined: 9/12/2003
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Talamanca de JaramaMadrid, SPAIN
Status: offline 		What a professional thread this is becoming and a real MANDATORY one for all seriously interested about improving jet flight.

Concerning the questions from some friends I will try not to forget anybody:

Mike I have never tried with double output gyros but as far as you maintain correction direction I do not foresee any trouble using them; as regarding the AVCT or Attitude Lock (as Mr. Gladwin correctly set against helicopter "Heading Lock") option my experience was totally unsuitable but then when we performed the test there were no such gyros for airplanes and we didn’t had the luxury of a gyro which went to normal correction when the pilot actuated the stick so I may not give any suggestions on that matter although I fully confirm what Mr. Gladwing comments about Futaba advices as I translated those instructions to Spanish language and I noticed them quite well.......so if you try it, do it very carefully.

Uwe, yes the gyro corrections must remain the same but with the tilted position you have to perform two checks: roll and yaw and in both ailerons must actuate opposing deviations: left ailerons for both right roll and right yaw.

Ray, regarding the gyro position it proved to be not too critical and in fact in all our tests they were mounted a bit to the rear of the actual C.G. but always centered on the fuselage. Then, some time later and in a series of training jet drones we placed them in the nose due to space restrictions and didn’t notice a great effect but if room is available I always prefer a C.G. mounted gyro.

Jeff, I do not agree with your comment regarding the gyro mount on helicopter. On these models it is actually impossible to locate the gyro on the main rotor axis, of course, but all the helicopters I have seen have the gyro mounted on a special try just at the rear or front of that axis and as near as mechanical devices (main rotor gear, tail rotor transmission or servos on the side panels) allow.

Chad, I do not know the Fuzzy gyro but regarding a single unit gyro it is just like Duke draw and there is no need for specifying "top" nor "bottom" as as far as you keep the rear tilt, the gyro will compensate in the correct direction both roll and yaw. In the other hand, if you tilt the gyro forward -this should be 60º instead 120º- then it will compensate only one deviation correctly while would add to the other, and if you use the inversion switch on the gyro you will jut reverse both but always one would compensate and the other would be incremented. The tilting of the gyro to the rear was just the genial idea behind this set up so we get two compensations with just one gyro.

Craig you are totally correct about different designs having different roll-yaw couplings but it does not affect the tilted gyro operation, believe me. Regarding a fine tune of the tilt angle you may well install the gyro juts VERTICAL but again connecting the ailerons to it and it will work perfectly compensating again both yaw and roll but with such auto stabilization effect that it becomes very, very hard to fly making turns in the air. Reason is that in my previous explanation I told about roll induced yaw but for these two axis the opposite also exists, this is a yaw induced roll so as every yaw produces a roll so, in first case -that already explained- when the roll induces a yaw it is detected by the gyro and compensates with ailerons the generated yaw and the original roll; in second case, the gyro immediately detects the yaw and corrects the imminent roll with opposite aileron and in both situations -which really coexist during all the flight- the gyro will compensate as far as the airplane´s wings and vertical tail are not straight and level.

Finally, I am sorry I do not have at this very moment any aircraft with a gyro mounted nor mounting photos of the original drones so you may have a better idea but I strongly recommend you to try it with a trainer or a low cost model first so you may check the efficiency of the set up. As a resume as I see it:

1.- Normal gyro set ups counteract deviations but if they occur are unable of restoring straight wing flight.

2.- Tilted gyro set up counteracts deviations and also recover straight wing flight after a mayor deviation or a turn.

3.-If you want wheel steering correction during take off and landing you may use an "Y" harness for also connecting the rudder and/or nose wheel servos bearing in mind the transmission set ups so all control systems keep logical to the gyro compensations. If not possible, then you need a separate gyro for rudder/wheel steering control.

Best Regards,

Jesus Cardin

Hide Signatures

(in reply to David Gladwin)
       Post #: 81

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/10/2009 2:38 AM   
Aero65



Posts: 782
Score: 100
Joined: 5/24/2002
Last Login: 3/21/2010
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Everone

Thank you Chad of Sincityjets! My ACT Fuzzy pro gyro is in and on the way!!!

Ill post in a couple of weeks results of my experiments with Gyros, I hope it is smoke free

Thank you Jesus for your detailed explination of the 120 degree gyro function. I'm glad that I got it right on the drawing.

Aloha Duke

_____________________________

Aloha, Duke Chung
Hawaii Jets

Hide Signatures

(in reply to jescardin)
       Post #: 82

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/15/2009 5:03 PM   
Kmarks


 

Posts: 613
Score: 100
Joined: 1/28/2002
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Hello All,

I recieved my ACT Fuzzy SMM and it seems to be a very easy to use gyro with simple set up. In the instructions it refers to a LED sensor and on the main unit it shows a diagram of X-X-X and xx-xx-xx etc for set up purposes.

I however cannot see or find any LED on the unit, the instructions clearly state "The internal LED shows the current status by flashing in different patterns"

Please help find the missing LED.

Kevin

XXXXXX Ok after trying to figure this out, I have found that the paper cover was not cut out to allow the LED to show through. It is located on the top of base unit on the left side in the front.

< Message edited by Kmarks -- 1/16/2009 2:43 PM >

_____________________________

Fly Eagle Jet Representative

Hide Signatures

(in reply to David Gladwin)
       Post #: 83

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/15/2009 5:36 PM   
SpiderJets



Posts: 1355
Score: 105
Joined: 12/26/2001
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Hi Kevin,

You'll love the gyro, remember to keep things as simple as possible, it's there to make your life easier in the first place .
Only use Normal Mode until you're absolutely confident with it, and start from a very low sensitivity setting (mine are usually between 20% and 40% maximum, depending on the plane) and use a proportional TX slider to open the sensitivity very slowly during flight. My ATV on this channel is preset at 40% on both sides which is the maximum I would be allowed to if opened completely (by mistake), and I might put them on 0% on the heading lock side soon.
Let us know how it worked out for you !

Nicolas.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Kmarks)
       Post #: 84

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/15/2009 6:41 PM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Curious...why is it that a gyro is needed in a plane? Is it necessary or just wanted? I fly Heli's and a gyro for tail control I can understand. In fact I don't know of anyone that can fly a heli without one...but planes are different.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SpiderJets)
       Post #: 85

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/15/2009 9:21 PM   
SinCityJets


 

Posts: 2249
Score: 105
Joined: 11/13/2005
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Henderson, NV, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: smh20502

Curious...why is it that a gyro is needed in a plane? Is it necessary or just wanted? I fly Heli's and a gyro for tail control I can understand. In fact I don't know of anyone that can fly a heli without one...but planes are different.


SMH,

Gyros are not necessarily "needed" on airplanes, but they do a lot to stabilize the plane in any given axis. They really give the plane a scale "locked-in" look. While you can reduce the size of full scale aircraft, you can not reduce the size of the air molecules they fly in. Therefore, RC aircraft tend to bounce around a little more in the air. Gyros help remove this "bouncing."

Chad

_____________________________

www.evoJetUSA.com

U.S. Importer / Distributor for evoJet Booster Turbines
U.S. Importer / Distributor Lambert Kolibri Nano-Turbines

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smh20502)
       Post #: 86

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/15/2009 11:35 PM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		reduce the size of the air molecule...been running into the same problem on micro planes. The plane can be easily shrunk and fly reasonably well but at a higher speed than desired. This of course is because the wing is less efficient at producing lift.

of course if we could shrink a MHD Magnetohydrodynamic power source the lift issue would be non-existent. Simply run the wires down the wings and suck the air to you...guess we're many years before that's reasonable.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SinCityJets)
       Post #: 87

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 6:39 AM   
SpiderJets



Posts: 1355
Score: 105
Joined: 12/26/2001
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Shrinking air molecules and mobilodynamichydro power sources ?
Oops... it's getting complicated again. LOL

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smh20502)
       Post #: 88

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 2:20 PM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		yea, sorry about that....No, excuse...just a geek here. But the prospects are very promising..............for our great grandchildren.


If stable flight is what we're looking for, I believe that there are some boards that use 3 axis gyros, 3 axis accelerometers and gps waypoints in conjunction with each other that are available through UAV parts suppliers. If you go to diydrones.com you can read about a few things that are available.

For the needs here I'm betting the GPS function can be disabled. I'll get some links and post the here if anyone is interested.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SpiderJets)
       Post #: 89

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 3:14 PM   
mick15



Posts: 1099
Score: 105
Joined: 4/2/2002
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: essex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		there you go again, it's only a toy aeroplane. lol

m

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smh20502)
       Post #: 90

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 3:42 PM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I thought this was about having the most "Wow" effect. Isn't it supposed to be that the one with the most toys wins. Ha ha

Mine has the uptannium dual space modulator....lol

Hide Signatures

(in reply to mick15)
       Post #: 91

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 3:57 PM   
Kmarks


 

Posts: 613
Score: 100
Joined: 1/28/2002
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Ok smh20502,

your getting to the point where you are adding very little to this thread, start your own thread and please lets get back to the topic that "I" started.

Thank You.

Kevin Marks

_____________________________

Fly Eagle Jet Representative

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smh20502)
       Post #: 92

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 4:10 PM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		So, Kmarks, it's your contention that a 3 axis gyro with 3 axis accelerometer and GPS if you like, to work with all of your control surfaces is considered very little? Ok...though it might be something interesting here...I'll take your advice

Thanks

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Kmarks)
       Post #: 93

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/16/2009 8:11 PM   
SinCityJets


 

Posts: 2249
Score: 105
Joined: 11/13/2005
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Henderson, NV, USA
Status: online 		Quick update: Anyone waiting on their Fuzzy Pro SMM, they will be in on the 19th. I will in turn send them right out!

_____________________________

www.evoJetUSA.com

U.S. Importer / Distributor for evoJet Booster Turbines
U.S. Importer / Distributor Lambert Kolibri Nano-Turbines

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smh20502)
       Post #: 94

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/25/2009 2:01 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 6178
Score: 103
Joined: 10/12/2005
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Has anyone here tried gyro stabilisation on a two vectord thrust unit? I know its been done, but have not seen any reports I could see this as a real advantage.

Mike

_____________________________

No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SinCityJets)
       Post #: 95

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/25/2009 4:03 PM   
SpiderJets



Posts: 1355
Score: 105
Joined: 12/26/2001
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Of course it has been done before. Take a look at the Mig-29 flights of Sebastiano Silvestri, this is the most obvious result.
There's another thread here on RCU with a YouTube video showing it : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8394649/tm.htm

Nicolas.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 96

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 1/25/2009 4:08 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 6178
Score: 103
Joined: 10/12/2005
Last Login: 3/22/2010
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Of course I know of the SS Mig, I was asking for first hand experience.

Mike

_____________________________

No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SpiderJets)
       Post #: 97

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/1/2009 2:46 AM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Just curious...why couldn't you slave two units at the radio? Am I incorrect to say that the thrust vectoring is just two axis? If that is the case then this would be two control units each having two servos being 4 channels of your radio?

Just a passing thought.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 98

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/1/2009 10:36 AM   
SpiderJets



Posts: 1355
Score: 105
Joined: 12/26/2001
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Installing two gyros for the vectoring nozzle is correct.

In the most simple set-up, you could connect the rudder servo with one axis of the nozzle (using a Y-cable) and the elevator with the other nozzle axis (using another Y-cable).

The sensitivities of both gyros need each one an additional RX channel, but you could also connect both in the same RX channel using a Y-cable and control the gain simultaneously (or : even ONLY use a fix gain by the manual pot meter on the gyros, which I would not recommend as in some situations you would prefer NOT to have any vectoring thrust at all).

So : in most simple case, you would not even need another channel, but it would be highly recommended to have permanent control over the sensitivity (=gain) anyway, so I would say : minimum one channel is needed more.

In most complex form, you need 4 additional channels, two for the vectoring servos, which would be controlled by programmable mixers in your TX, and two for controlling the sensitivity of each gyro separately.

Nicolas.

< Message edited by SpiderJets -- 2/1/2009 10:42 AM >

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smh20502)
       Post #: 99

RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/1/2009 10:03 PM   
smh20502


 

Posts: 180
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2007
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		gonnna try this one last time. Would a device that contains 3 axis gyros, 3 axis, 3 mag sensors be of use in the rc jet world...its used for uav's but could be adopted here. Below is what I was trying to see if would be of use before kmarks chimed in with ....providing very little to this thread.

http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Sensors/DataSheet-6DOF-v4-Rev1.pdf

The 6DOF v4 Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) is the latest Sparkfun IMU offering. The v4 provides 3 axes of acceleration data, 3 axes of gyroscopic data, and 3 axes of magnetic data. Each independent channel is user selectable, as is the sampling frequency. The device can also report in ASCII or binary format, and can work over a wireless Bluetooth link or a wired TTL serial connection. Control is provided through an LPC2138 ARM7 processor with plenty of extra memory for custom code development. All code is written using the free WinARM development platform. With our available source code, you can be doing your own development in minutes!

For a wireless link, the 6DOF will communicate with any Bluetooth device that supports the Serial-Port-Profile (SPP - most do!). However, because of the dense amount of data across the serial link we recommend the BlueDongle USB device below.

Features:

* Input Voltage: 4.2V to 7VDC
* LPC2138 ARM7 Processor
* Freescale MMA7260Q triple-axis accelerometer, settable to 1.5g, 2g, 4g or 6g sensitivity
* 2 Invensense IDG300 500 degree/second dual-axis gyros (total of 4 axis)
* Honeywell HMC1052L and HMC1051Z magnetic sensors
* Roving Networks Bluetooth Module
* Tri-color status LED

Board stack comes fully assembled as shown. All sensors are internally temperature compensated. All readings are available through any terminal program in either ASCII, binary format, or with the improved 6DOF v4 IMU Mixer demo application (source code also available).

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SpiderJets)
       Post #: 100

Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>  
All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets.
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


2.468RCU1