RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets.   
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets.
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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/2/2009 10:44 AM   
SpiderJets



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Status: offline 		Let's try to continue this thread in a realistic way as hobby modelers, and with a lot of common sense.

I have been installing 3 axis gyros in a jet, and it did not bring me any significant additional benefit (except for the ailerons, which I continue to use in jets).
99% of all modelers do not even succeed in properly fine tuning their programmable mixers to full extent ; we're not even talking about all this additional stuff.
In flights of 6-10 minutes only there's not enough time to determine properly what should be changed and how, and fine-tune all that stuff nicely combined.
Bottom line is that this complexity will be fun for the technical side of it, for the first two flights perhaps, and in the long run we'd be more than happy to do without !

In UAV's where the main goal is to fly straight ahead most of the time without much input, I see a benefit indeed. With our jets, in 10 seconds you're out of sight.

With a thrust vectoring control, that's a story apart, as you can switch this off as you only use it for highly aerobatic maneuvers.

I have also been flying an Align T-Rex 450SE heli with the Robbe Helicommand (also 3 axis) plus another Futaba GY401. Made 4 gyros to set up, plus the camera stabilizer controls.

I'm trying to bring you my own hands-on experience here. Call me an idiot.

Nicolas.



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< Message edited by SpiderJets -- 2/2/2009 10:50 AM >

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/2/2009 2:07 PM   
smh20502


 

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Status: offline 		So, do I refer to you as Idiot or SpiderJets? LOL

very good explanation. Yes, this is very complex for what I call the simple minded...me being one of them, however once programed initially, the initialization should be all that's necessary to get all points set.

Me, I want it to keep from crashing into the ground. Anyone who will be using this will most likely have to know/learn C or C++. With that one could program in a fail safe, using a combination of GPS and Mag sensorses, to avoid crashing into mother earth. But, yes this would be for the true geek.

Point taken...So, there are guys flying jets that still have problems with mixes? Wow! I figured that once someone has graduated to the jet level they would have no problem with mixes, programs, setup etc.

Since the link that I sent is for a development board, one could tie in a receiver and have a fail safe of fly home...again for the geek

I'd still like to hear others opinions...But I believe the consensus is probably exactly what you said.


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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/2/2009 2:29 PM   
rolsen12


 

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Status: offline 		I used a gyro about ten years ago.
I turned it on , then turned it off and I could not see any differance.
I took it out and gave the thing away.
I could not see any Use for it.
Oh well you win some and you lose some.

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/2/2009 3:19 PM   
SpiderJets



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rolsen12

I used a gyro about ten years ago.
I turned it on , then turned it off and I could not see any differance.
I took it out and gave the thing away.
I could not see any Use for it.
Oh well you win some and you lose some.


There is also a gain channel, maybe you forgot to open that one ?

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/2/2009 8:35 PM   
Aero65



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From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Status: offline 		Been working with some Gyros the last few weeks, and I have gotten some good results.

1. SM MB339 test bed: Fuzzy pro on pitch (Thank you Chad at Sincity Jets!!), 1 Futaba GY401 on yaw.
Pitch did not do much, Plane is dead stable on pitch anyway, we did it for experimentation in AFT cg configurations, and AVCS testing.

a. Yaw was great, bang the yaw stick and it damped in 1 oscillation. Without 2 or 3 oscillations required to dampen.
b. Yaw and AVCS was not tried.
c. Pitch did not make much of a difference, as again this plane in the normal config is pretty stable.
d. Pitch AVCS was kind of weird and created a pitch rate that continued to increase the pitch and it did not seem to hold a pitch attitude. More experimentation needs to be done.

2. Avonds F-104: Futaba GYA352 on Yaw and Roll.

a. Nice combo, really smoothed out the Dutch roll during flight. Only one flight on Sunday.(Also testing new K70-X turbine)

I have looked into the 3 axis autopilots and while they have some very nice features, they are also mostly designed for stable aircraft and might have issues controlling a neutrally stable aircraft that tend to be much slower than we fly. It would be nice if someone developed a assistance unit that could maintain angle of attack and airspeed. I read on Detail 4 Scales website that they are working on something like that.

I know that some people will say that you shouldn't need that kind of stuff if your good enough to fly turbines, and while true you should not need that stuff it might help save some people from busted expensive airplanes from the occasional dumb thumb. After all it's all a personal choice, so if you think is cool get it. If you want to beat your chest and say your a man and you don’t need them, go ahead. It's a hobby have fun, for me I like the gadgets and the techie stuff.


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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 5/5/2009 7:14 PM   
tralalala


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Gladwin
...The device was called heading lock but heading could only be held in the hover as in forward flight the heading of a helicopter is controlled by lateral cyclic, as the ailerons of a fixed wing aircraft, and if heading hold remained active on the tail rotor the machine would be very difficult to turn as the gyro would attempt to hold the nose in a constant direction. Clearly, if used on a fixed wing aircraft a heading lock gyro cannot be used on rudder as rudder inputs would then oppose normal turning and result in large yaw angles as a result of rudder deflection ...


David,

HH remains enabled in FF of a heli. You get away with this by 'flying' the tail, i.e. coordinating tail rotor to follow the body through a turn. It's natural and is exactly like stepping on the ball. I've never tried HH on the rudder of a plank, but I surmise it might also work if you 'flew' the tail?

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 5/5/2009 8:06 PM   
SpiderJets



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Status: offline 		There were some people looking for Futaba GYA 350-351-352.
I've been yesterday at Radar RC in HongKong, and they still have stock !

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 5/6/2009 11:00 AM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		I guess you are right but, having flown real helicopters many years ago it seems a strange, very strange, way to fly a rotary ! Personally with model helis I always switched it off in forward flight, it seemed the logical way to do it, worked for me but I am not a 3d heli pilot. (heli 3d to shows incredible pilot skill and equipment capability but is as boring as watching a swarm of bees !)

You MIGHT be able to "get away" with fitting a HH gyro to the rudder of a fixed wing aeroplane but it would seem to me to be somewhat counterproductive and I have yet to discover any fullsize fixed wing jet with a hold facility on yaw, it is fitted to roll and pitch only.

All that said, I am absolutely convinced of the usefullness of a gyro used as a roll damper on jets as well as the more usual yaw damper, patricularly in rough air. I doubt I will ever fly anothe jet without one fitted and as soon as the new Weatronics 2.4 arrives with 3 axis gyros I will do more tests on FULL autostabilasation.

Must go, just heard my first grandson has arrived after 9 months in the holding pattern !!

Regards, David Gladwin.

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 5/6/2009 8:09 PM   
tralalala


 

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Status: offline 		I agree on the point that rate demand on the rudder of a fixed wing is unnecessary, a basic YD will do wonders. Especially for those folks that like to do onboard video, it will prevent the viewer from getting seasick!

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RE: What are the ABC's for Gyros in Jets. - 2/7/2010 12:49 PM   
Kometfreak


 

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Status: offline 		Anybody test any of the Futaba Clone gyros?

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