Zapping Nicads  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> Zapping Nicads
Page: [1]

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Zapping Nicads - 6/6/2003 12:19:37 AM   
DonH21


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 2/16/2002
From: Crete, NE, USA
Status: offline 		How does one, zap nicad batteries?

Thank. Don
       Post #: 1

Zapping Nicads - 6/9/2003 7:50:38 AM   
Furyflyer2



Posts: 2645
Joined: 6/8/2002
From: middlesex, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		High voltage and allot of nerve.


_____________________________

Paul G,
www.3dxhobbies.com

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 2

ZAPPING NI-CDS - 6/9/2003 11:20:30 AM   
EloyM


 

Posts: 187
Joined: 8/5/2002
From: Santa Ana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		If they are not too far gone, you can revive (Zap) them by applying momentary pulses of 12 volts to individual cells - never to more than one. After each two or three Zaps, check the voltage until you see 1.3 or more. Recharge normally and check the capacitance. If a close to normal value is obtained, install your NiCds in your R/C car, boat, flashlight or Ugly Stik - they should not be trusted as you would cells that have not exhibited the faults you are interested in Zapping them for in the first place. Batteries cost less than airplanes.

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 3

Zapping Nicads - 6/9/2003 7:55:46 PM   
Rodney



Posts: 4625
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: FL
Status: offline 		You can not trust cells that have been zapped because, the original fault is usually a hole in the insulation between plates that the crystals have migrated thru. When you hit them with a high current/high voltage pulse to clear them you are literally melting them so the plates are again seperated. However, the hole in the insulating area is still there and soon new crystal growth will short out the cell again. You can use them in a bench test setup or flashlight but I would not trust them in a vehicle, especially a plane.

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 4

Zapping Nicads - 6/10/2003 2:12:38 AM   
DonH21


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 2/16/2002
From: Crete, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replys!
I was thinking of zapping new cells before building the battery packs.
Would i be better off, not zapping at all? I'm a sport flier.
Thanks. Don

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 5

Zapping Nicads - 6/10/2003 2:19:28 AM   
Gary Retterbush



Posts: 238
Joined: 3/9/2002
From: Eisenschmitt, AE, GERMANY
Status: offline 		DonH21,

Zapping as you are thinking of is for the experts. It requires special equipment and a lot of knowledge about each cell type. It uses current and voltages that can be lethal!

If you need the extra edge that zapped cells give, then I STRONGLY suggest you buy them.

Gary

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 6

Zapping - 6/10/2003 4:50:33 AM   
Saberjock


 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2002
From: Winnipeg, MB,
Status: offline 		There is a lot of misinformation above!

Zapping is an often used process for reducing a cell's internal resistance and therefor allowing it to "dump" faster with less waste as heat. We only do this for high discharge applications, certainly not for running radios, etc.

The cells can be trusted.

It is not done "at home"

It is not done to revive cells.

Tex. Electric flier. (As well as Gasoline)

_____________________________

C.W. (Tex) Gehman
Slime is Crime

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 7

Zapping Nicads - 6/10/2003 5:49:45 AM   
N1EDM-RCU



Posts: 89
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Brockton, MA,
Status: offline 		Here's another one (to use at your own risk). I had a battery sales rep that I was dealing with for my company. He said that it's not uncommon to take new cells and give them a rap on the table (only once) when they are new...

Say that you have a AA cell... just give it a single sharp rap on a solid surface (desktop, etc).

I also read somewhere that it's best to take a new battery pack and charge it at a very slow rate (like the 14-16 hours that you get with a wall-wart charger) the first few times out... I've heard that this helps to equalize the cells better.

I don't know if there is any truth to that last statement, but it sure wouldn't hurt to condition a new pack that way....

Bob

_____________________________

You can never have too much fuel, unless your plane is on fire.

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 8

Re: Zapping - 6/10/2003 12:25:44 PM   
Gary Retterbush



Posts: 238
Joined: 3/9/2002
From: Eisenschmitt, AE, GERMANY
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saberjock
There is a lot of misinformation above!

(snip)

Tex. Electric flier. (As well as Gasoline) [/QUOTE]


Tex, was that meant for my post???

Gary

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 9

Zapping Nicads - 6/10/2003 8:18:19 PM   
Rodney



Posts: 4625
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: FL
Status: offline 		Zapping, by the old definition, is burning out the short between the plates caused by the crystalization internal to the battery. There is a more recent definition which the logic of escapes me where supposedly the battery can be made to be more efficient. Of course the venders are not aware of this or they would be doing to improve the sales of their batterys. Beware of a lot of the snake oil associated with nicads here. If in doubt, don't believe any of us, check with the manufacturers or with the known experts such as Red or Dave Thatcher.

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 10

Zapping Nicads - 6/10/2003 8:34:24 PM   
EloyM


 

Posts: 187
Joined: 8/5/2002
From: Santa Ana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Rodney above is correct re the old definition of "Zapping". Originally, the practice of cooking cells to apparently improve their performance, though nothing was ever said about what it did to their life, was called "pushing". All of this mainly in the R/C car hobby. It now seems there has been a crossover or confusion of terminology, at least in this case.
As a point of possible interest, none of these procedures, "zapping" or "pushing" are mentioned in any of the engineering information distributed by Sanyo, Panasonic or any of the NiCd makers. Nor is their any mention of the "broil" (my term!) rates used in R/C, they seldom go above 1C. We should consider Sanyo, etc., to be the experts on these subjects.

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 11

Zapping Nicads - 6/10/2003 8:40:31 PM   
Gary Retterbush



Posts: 238
Joined: 3/9/2002
From: Eisenschmitt, AE, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Zapping is a proven technology that is in wide use all over the globe. It requires special equipment and knowledge of each cell type. Some cells do not respond well or at all. It reduces the internal resistance of the cells which means they can and do deliver more current. Almost all cells in contest use are zapped or pushed (European word for zapped). More and more every day users are finding the benefits of using them. BTW, the cells generally last as long or longer than non zapped cells if used in a like manner.

Zapping costs research, time and money and that is one reason the companies do not do it. They also do not recommend the way we R/Cers use batteries (high current in and out) and that is where the zapping really pays off. In their eyes we shouldn't even be doing what we are, let alone drawing 100 amps plus!

If you haven't used real zapped cells, you are missing something IMHO.

YMMV

Gary

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 12

"Above posts" - 6/12/2003 2:24:54 AM   
Saberjock


 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2002
From: Winnipeg, MB,
Status: offline 		Gary: misinformation from you? Heck no! My comments strictly related to the three areas I submitted.

I'm also of the opinion that if you think your tx/rx batteries need reviving that a couple of cyclings won't cure they should be treated to a trip to Valhalla. Tex.

_____________________________

C.W. (Tex) Gehman
Slime is Crime

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 13

Zapping Nicads - 6/12/2003 2:39:41 AM   
rc-cam



Posts: 51
Joined: 6/6/2002
From: Anytown, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]requires special equipment and knowledge of each cell type. Some cells do not respond well or at all.[/quote]One of the reasons for the high cost of modern Zapped cells is due to the mortality rate. Several hundred amps are often used! Very dangerous stuff, so let the professions do this for you.

Zapped cells have lower short circuit impedance and so they can deliver more raw current. It is popular with the modelers that need the extra performance edge. They are probably not a useful investment for the average park or schoolyard e-flyer.

The old terminology called zapping was indeed a task that involved lower currents to burn off the metalization whiskers that formed in old tired NiCD's. Doing this to an R/C pack is a risky effort since the pack will just go south in short order. Best left to temporarily restore the kids' toy cells (Furbies and such). Better yet, just dispose of those packs in an environmentally safe way.

< Message edited by rc-cam -- Jun 12 2003 4:21PM >

_____________________________

Best Regards,
Mr. RC-CAM

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 14

I dono - 6/13/2003 7:33:34 PM   
aashu



Posts: 293
Joined: 3/9/2002
From: Edison, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I am not sure what zapping does .. but here is what I did

I had an old (probably 5 yrs old) Cordless phone using the same battery pack I guess 3.6V nicd and it just won't charge not even blink .. so one day i decided to COOK it and gave it a kick of 12 V from my car battery ... that was like an year back .. it has been working just fine since then !!

(in reply to DonH21)
       Post #: 15

Page:   [1]
All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> Zapping Nicads
Page: [1]





Jump to: