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Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

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Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

Old 01-17-2009, 11:11 AM
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Default Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

================================================== ==========
NOTE: This post is now replacing a previous post located [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8366351/anchors_8368233/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8368233]here on rc universe[/link].
================================================== ==========

[sm=thumbs_up.gif]And It Begins...
Two things are going to happen by me placing this thread on RC Universe. 1) I will end up with egg on my face, or 2) I will claim victory. Of course, I'm placing all bets on the later and praying the first doesn't even come close. "So what he heck are you doing jr?", your saying. Here it is:

Afflicted by a love of all things that fly, controlled by a small budget, and having a massive desire to create a 'scale' model of a plane I love, I have decided to convert a Guillows SBD-3 Dauntless to a full-functioning radio control aircraft complete with the following:

1) Working horizontal & vertical stabilizers, and ailerons
2) Working landing gear
3) Scale body details (including panel lines and rivets)


...and the biggest challenge of it all...

4) Fully concealed controls (i.e. no control horns showing, or push rods showing outside the body)

"Your nuts buddy!", is what I have heard most of all. However, I'm becoming to love this challenge and would like to share the experiences with my fellow rc'ers out there. Do I plan on succeeding flawlessly? Um, that would be a no. And that's the part of rc that I love the most, the building, the challenges, and the small victories that all claim when we've done something, at first, we thought we couldn't. So there you have it. I hope this thread can serve as some type of inspiration or knowledge base for everyone OR at its worst serve as one heck of a good laugh!

Cheers everyone - more to come soon.
Old 01-17-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

For a flying model you can't claim victory until the flying time surpasses the building time.
Old 01-17-2009, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

CP,

No True'r words could be spoken.

apwashholtz,

Wingloading is critical with 1/2A. What is the wing area/span of the Guillows Dauntless?

No Doubt there will be a wealth of 1/2A knowledge here to take advantage of...

And you've come to the right place to ask questions...

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team
Old 01-17-2009, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

id like to see some pictures as im converting a few simular gullow designs mostly warbirds consisting of a zero spitfire and huirricane all for 1/2a combat good luck and i def will be watching
Old 01-17-2009, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

ORIGINAL: Cross Check

Wingloading is critical with 1/2A. What is the wing area/span of the Guillows Dauntless?
CC

It's probably the 1000 series; the span is a little over 31". I don't know the wing area.
Old 01-17-2009, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

I think I've seen this series referred as 3/4" to the foot. The Dauntless should be a more practical choice to model [this way] than the other War Birds because it is more of a trainer type plane. This could end up being a very cool project [8D]
Old 01-17-2009, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

I've liked the Guillow Dauntless ever since I saw beautiful one hanging in a hobby shop. I didn't even mind the stick and tissue structure, it looked so fantastic painted up like a Midway warrior. I doubt it ever flew.

I think your biggest challenge will be keeping it light enough to be an enjoyable flyer, as Cross Check says. You can certainly modify it to include lots of nice details, but all the little grams have a way of turning into ounces. Then the plane has to go very fast to fly, and that magnifies any imperfections in flying surfaces, makes the controls sensitive, and makes it hit harder. I think you will find the landing gear pretty useless unless you can keep it ultra light. Usually WWII planes of such small size are flown without landing gear, though there are very light units available for VERY light models.

But it sounds like you are going to enjoy this no matter what happens, and you will certainly learn a lot from it. Keep us posted.

Jim
Old 01-17-2009, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

landing gear on a model like these will most certainly be ripped off unless your flying of a nice runway but grass will be a no no hence why mine will not they will have to belly land into the long grass next to our flying patch. though the small support for the undercarrige should still be fitted as it will act as a strengthner for the joint of the wing which will help alittle
Old 01-17-2009, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

Figure that retracts will add at least 2 ozs when all is said and done. The 25 inch span kits would definitely become bricks, but a 31" span model stands a chance if the runway is smooth enough.......like a frozen lake.
Old 01-17-2009, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

Wow! [X(] I didn't realize there would be that much interest in the project. I'll be sure to get some pics posted as the project comes along. One question for the masses:

Wingloading? I knew that this is an issue in the real world of aviation, however, how do you know that the proper wingload is for something along this scale, and well, what exactly is wingload?

I just figured that since Guillows created the kit, there should be no reason as to why it shouldn't fly as long as I'm not compromising the structural integrity of the aircraft. I'm not too concerned with the weight, mind you, as I'm using micro-everything for the control mechanics and using an E-flight 480 brushless outrunner powered by a 1350mAh 11.1v Thunder Power lipo, as my power source. I'll gather up my technical information and post that within the coming days, since I have it all laying out on my work bench.

And as of today, I have successfully developed the internal aileron and elevator linkages on paper, mind you. Can't wait to begin! Photo's coming soon.....
Old 01-17-2009, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control


ORIGINAL:
<snip>.....
Wingloading? I knew that this is an issue in the real world of aviation, however, how do you know that the proper wingload is for something along this scale, and well, what exactly is wingload

<snip>.....
I'm not too concerned with the weight, mind you, as I'm using micro-everything for the control mechanics and using an E-flight 480 brushless outrunner powered by a 1350mAh 11.1v Thunder Power lipo, as my power source.
In modeling, we calculate wingloading in oz/sq.ft. Determine your planes weight in ounces; calculate your wing area in square feet; divide weight/area. Actually, wingloading is more of an issue in modeling than in full scale and an overweight plane can be a real booger to fly and not much fun. For a 1/2A sized plane, shoot for 10 to 14 oz/sq ft., but the lighter, the better. The range is pretty broad, but probably 10 to 12 is best.

Most of our planes are actually over-engineered and over built; very few fail in flight. You cannot build a crash proof plane - the lighter they are, the more they are inclined to bounce rather than bust. The moral of the story is build to fly, not to crash.

Most Guillows planes are built like tanks with ironwood and many folks building for flight will replace the Guillows wood with lighter balsa.

Here are a couple of YouTube videos of a Dauntless. The flying weight of this plane is 16.9 oz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naAmKj07a3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLMZFa6hYCI

andrew
Old 01-17-2009, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

here we go again
Old 01-18-2009, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

[sm=thumbs_up.gif]And the build begins...

This weekend was time to set and gather all things required to begin the build. Since I live in an apartment it was necessary to commandeer my "dining room" and turn it into a successful workshop. It was late saturday night after all was said and done setting up shop, when I decided to wait no longer. So at 11pm, I began. Nothing big to report, simply the beginnings of a project. However, I have one observation to point out:

[ul][*] Over the previous weeks I had come across many negative comments about the quality of Guillows models. And while they are not the precision laser cut kits of today, they come across as a builders dream for me. I've built a few kits in my short tenure in rc airplanes and I'm finding Guillows to be a great challenge for a project such as this. I was especially impressed by the documentation that Guillow provides! Heck, these plans could make a great 1/4 scale project. Hmm....
[/ul]

Either way, here are a few mundane pics to give you an idea of where and what's going on.

Till next post, Cheers!
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:16 AM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

I think the handiest tool to have for a Guillows RC build is a razor saw.
Even Guillows has a sense of humor about their reputation, but it sounds like they've made improvements. I'm glad you're up to the "challenge"....I mean, it's not like we're talking about learning how to ride a unicycle or speak Chinese?
I think the biggest challenge is to get the parts glued together without breaking any of them after the fact with rough handling. Then the biggest challenge is to refrain from going completely ape and turning the workbench upside down and setting the shop on fire after discovering a major building error!! [>:]
Old 01-19-2009, 02:15 AM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

looking good keep it up, im still adapting my build on paper before i dare start building
Old 01-19-2009, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

Question:

Would the following servo "slow down module" work on a [link=http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HS-5085MG]Hitech Mighty-Mini (HS-5085MG)[/link] servo? It mentions 'proportional' but I can't seem to find any clear explanation of what that is nor does Hitech say if this servo is or is not proportional. Here's the link from Hobby Lobby (5th one down on the list):

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hookup.htm

UPDATE: Found the following online which explains a lot (sheesh, being a newbie in electronics can be frustrating)...

In a proportional servo (which constitute the vast majority of servos), the farther the transmitter control is moved, the faster the servo's drive motor begins to spin. A feedback potentiometer operated via the gears turns the motor off when the servo reaches its desired position. Operating the transmitter controls from that point once again turns on the motor and the process begins again.

Old 01-19-2009, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

I don't know the answer to your question (it should - says "any servo"), but I do think it's a heavy servo for such a small plane. I don't know what you need for your retracts, but the usual servo sizes in projects this size weigh a few grams, not 3/4 oz. I can't say it enough - this is a REALLY small plane for all the things you want to do with it. Every gram counts. Also, if you're on a small budget, you'd be blowing an awful lot of it on this servo. Jim
Old 01-20-2009, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

[sm=thumbs_up.gif] Cut, Cut, Cut, and Cut Some More

Good thing I had an evening to sit and cut out some ribs...and more ribs. Ahh, Combatpig, you are right. In order to produce such a product you have to love it's shortcomings. Of course, what I find more enjoyable is how 'dated' the kits are. Which goes in part to my comment on the challenge of building it. That being said, here are some pics of the progress.

Cheers Everyone!
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

Lookin' good! Have you sanded the parts sheets on the underside before trying to break out the parts? A few swipes with 150 grit will make the parts easier to pry out of the sheets.
The nothches in the bulkheads add un-needed strife to the build, too. The plane will come out looking cleaner if the bulkheads [fuselage formers] are trimmed down even with the bottom of the notches. In other words, wipe out the notches and just lay the stringers on top of the formers. I use spruce instead of balsa stringers in some key areas. The concern is whether the plane will survive the beating it gets trying to get an engine started, of course with electric power you don't have that to worry about and should be able to build as light as you want.
Old 01-21-2009, 01:16 AM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

[sm=thumbs_up.gif]SBD Dauntless Electronics Set-Up

As I mentioned before, here is a listing (and images) of the electronics that I'm planning on placing in the SBD Dauntless Guillows conversion to radio control:

1) E-flight 480 Brushless Outrunner motor
2) 30 amp Electronic Speed Control (off brand)
3) (3) JR DS285 Micro Servos for elevator / rudder / ailerons
4) Thunder Power 3-cell 1320mAh 11.1V Lithium Polymer battery
5) Spektrum AR6100 Microlight Receiver
6) HiTech 82 Metal Gear Micro Servo for landing gear
7) Servo Slow Down Module [not pictured] for landing gear delay


All but #7 were already in my arsenal of rc equipment from previous Plug-n-Play purchases or from when I just felt the need to own them (Ha!). So we're still budge conscious to date, or as much as possible. Heck, I even got a deal on the Guillows kit from my local hobby store because they know me so well, as I'm in there almost every other day (not necessarily buying stuff). Either way, pics are attached so feel free to take a look. I've also done some preliminary testing for aileron installation in the wing of the Dauntless - and all is looking promising for a smooth internal installation.

Oh, Andrew (the other one) Thanks for the links to the Corsair project. The one thing that I was hoping was that with all the requests on his video post that he'd put up some more detailed information or shots on the project. But alas, it was not to be. plus the vid of him flying was less then expected since most of the time all u were watching was sky w/ a dot in it..... but hey, it flew! Sweet......

Cheers Everyone!
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

[sm=thumbs_up.gif] Chop, Cut, Sand

Minus final shaping on the leading and trailing edge we're done with the initial wing build. During the skeletal assembly of the Dauntless wing, I decided to 'fill out' the wing tips as I wasn't completely pleased with how Guillows had the final construction set up. Not that it was bad, but I am sheeting the entire body with 1/16th balsa and the thin wing tips were prone to easy transportation damage. So - I beefed them up with solid balsa. Turned out really nice!

I didn't final the leading or trailing edge(s) yet since I'm sheeting the entire wing. Also, there is that 1/16th inch margin of error on the surface of the wing as I'm cutting the balsa to lay even within the edges. This way when I do final sanding there won't be a small 'hump' right after each edge going into the wing. You can see the detail in the last pic where all the sheeting, edge, etc. are coming to meet - nice and smooth! (I hope someone gets what I just tried to explain )

So now it's on to the body and the beginning of the internal installation of the ailerons and landing gear. Again, my initial test of the mechanics for both worked out great, so I'm excited to show the installation.

Cheers everyone! Till next post.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

superb work. really coming together now isnt it, is the kit ment to have sheeted wings or was that your choice as im thinking of doing the same
Old 01-23-2009, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

sir crashallot -

The kit doesn't call for sheeting, that's my own choice. However, there are 2 reasons for my sheeting:

1) Creates greater wing strength while not adding a significant amount of weight to the structure.
2) I'm shooting for 'scale' appearances. That being the case, I don't want any ribs/stringers/etc. showing when I apply the sheeting and I also want a smooth surface to work my details into (i.e. panel lines, rivets, etc.)

Oh, and about #1 - Since I'm also installing retracts, the added strength of the sheeting helps compensate for the added weight of the retracts. Henseforth the "greater wing strength" comment.

(Note: normally I don't respond within 15 min. of anyones post but, works slow right now...)


Old 01-23-2009, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

not bad browsing rcu while you work wish i could do that need to find some work first
Old 01-23-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: Guillows SBD Daunltess => Coverstion to Radio Control

Looking great aside from your despicably tidy workbench..
I think ill follow your lead on the solid tips for my Hellcat too, looks much better.

Im looking forward to seeing your control setup. [8D]

Ash

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