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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/2/2009 3:13 PM   
Magne


 

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From: Moss, NORWAY
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Nice work.

A couple of questions:
Are you pre-curing the first layer of fibreglass before you "glue" in the Nomex, or is it all done in one wet operation?
Have you left the idea of a two piece fuselage now that you are molding the model?

Regards,
Magne

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 12:30 AM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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From: thessaloniki, , GREECE
Status: offline 		Hallo
Guille
Rohacell 31 sounds very good ,but so far I found only 51 in 10mm thick .But is it as drapable as honeycomb ?and can you find it in max2mm to get the same weight ??
Bryan ,thanks for the tips, but I think 35gr inside is not enough ,I think that you could rip it if squeezing the fuse in a small area lets say in handling the plane during transportation .
Hi Magne ,no precuring ,all is done wet in wet .
No I havent left the 2piece idea ,my plan for now is this :fly the plane as soon as possible ,make a second one with two piece fuse ,modify the first in to two piece .
I`m writing you with a smile here but this I cannot show with my writing ,here is the reason ..!

Elias

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< Message edited by ELIAS SOPEOGLOU -- 3/3/2009 12:31 AM >

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 12:33 AM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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< Message edited by ELIAS SOPEOGLOU -- 3/3/2009 12:46 AM >

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 1:33 AM   
tschmidt


 

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Status: offline 		Congratulations Elias!!! Very nice and the weight is fantastic!!!! I always say popping a piece out of the mold is like opening a Christmas present. Sometimes you get what you hoped for and sometimes you don't.. I'd say you got what you hoped for! Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.

I can see the aramide would be a lot less labor intesive than balsa. Even though it's more expensive I can see saving about 5 hours of work preparing balsa fuselage skins.. Again, GREAT JOB!

Todd

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 3:57 AM   
serious power


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Elias,
Gooood result.
You have a point about the drape-ability, rohacell is very stiff and will not do compound curves.
At 1mm section the light glass is fine for handling, but the weight you have achieved is a great result so why bother.
Keep up the good work.

Brian

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 5:10 AM   
flyintexan



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Status: offline 		Wow. Great job Elias.


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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 7:05 AM   
doxilia



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Elias, can't wait to see her with wings and stabs. What's your ETA for flight?

BTW, I might be a little out of tune with the details of your thread but will bulkheads (other than a firewall say) be going into this fuse?

David.

P.S. How were the slopes?

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/3/2009 11:33 AM   
guille2006



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Status: offline 		Hi Elias...
I use Rohacel 31 and we get it in 31 mm thick panels. We found the way to cut them into 2 mm (for wing) and 3 mm (fuselage) thick slices... Mr. Serious Power is rigth when he says "..stiff" BUT nothing that a heat pistol (is that the name? I don't know, sorry about my english) could deal with. I remark here that we use it with preimpreg. carbon fiber tissues and vaccum; no autoclave yet.
Keep posting;
Guille

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/6/2009 9:28 PM   
highfly3D


 

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Status: offline 		Any more updates............... cant wait.. to see

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/7/2009 7:57 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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From: thessaloniki, , GREECE
Status: offline 		Hallo
thanks for the comments gentlemen ,
Todd,you got a point, looking forward for your updates on your plane ..
Doxilia ,no there are no bulkheads planed on this fuselage ,only carbon tubes ,you´ll see soon.
I have been working on the canopy mould this week ,thankfully got it finished ,sorry for not posting detailed info ,but I think it would be boring ,after all it just looks like a copy of other planes canopys.. so here is the mould ,I did not give that much attention on this mould as the fuselage one but does the job ok.

Elias

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/7/2009 8:04 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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Status: offline 		And here is the product , I´m happy about the result specially the weight.

Elias

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/7/2009 8:06 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/7/2009 8:45 PM   
highfly3D


 

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Status: offline 		Hi...

Please posting detailed info on how did u make the canopy i mean the process.. is it complete carbon fiber...

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/8/2009 12:27 AM   
Ryan Smith


 

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The canopy is beautiful; did you mold the lip into it as well? The lack of seam is very nice.

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/12/2009 9:52 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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From: thessaloniki, , GREECE
Status: offline 		Hallo
Sorry for dissapearing but there is tons of work going on here.
Hifly ,the canopy is 90gr carbon outside and 50gr glass inside .
Ryan ,yes the lip is moulded as well ,the mould splits at this point, you can see the lipside mould part on the left of the pic .The lip is intierly of carbon. I´ll post a pic as soon as possible.
I finished the main work on the stabilizer ,nothing you havent seen before ,I just gave more attention on the weight ,I chose the lightest balsa I found and really squezed on the glue ,so here is the result.
Weight is for the half stab.
Elias

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< Message edited by ELIAS SOPEOGLOU -- 3/17/2009 2:26 AM >

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/12/2009 10:07 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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Status: offline 		I also designed a new variable stab position system .This one is a bit smaller and uses two srews instead of four .The biggest change is that the screw sleeves are in the inner side of the fuse so the it´s more apealing on the outside.The stab has now limited movement on the bottom since I think it´s highly unlikely that the stab be needed to be lower than the wing line.
here is the drawing.
Elias

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/13/2009 3:38 AM   
doxilia



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Status: offline 		Very cool Elias!

What's your take on the direction of wood grain on sheeting flying surfaces?

Some say that it should follow the LE, while others follow the TE or sheet perpendicular to the root line (as in your stab). I suppose that the sweep of the surface has some impact on the best approach but I'm interested in what others think.

David.

< Message edited by doxilia -- 3/13/2009 3:39 AM >

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/13/2009 11:39 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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Yes I put grain prependiculal to the root or better say parallel to spar or wing tube ,makes sence ! This is how you take advantage of the grains the most for lengthwise strength. I guess if you put them parallel to LE and TE you get more torsion strength.Put if you glass the wing you really have no need for this .But if you film ...
Here are a couple of pics for the stab system ,it´s already in the fuse now and looks good and functional ,because of the design change I could use only ply 3mm .
Please do not try this before we get at least the first report and see how it handles in real life! Dont want anybody cursing on me for a design failure !

cheers
Elias

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< Message edited by ELIAS SOPEOGLOU -- 3/13/2009 11:40 PM >

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/14/2009 12:05 AM   
doxilia



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Status: offline 		Elias,

nicely done.

Speaking of film... it looks like you have some covered stabs or wings in the background!

David.

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/14/2009 4:30 AM   
Jeff Boyd 2



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Status: offline 		Nice stab adjuster, Elias . .

Did you install it into the fuse using countersunk heads so the bolts can be flush with the fuse? Then you can position the stab infinitely without notching the stab for clearance ?

Cheers, JB

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/15/2009 12:58 PM   
pappy69



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Did you thote avoiding all this work for the wing adjusters by using something like this:

http://www.centralhobbies.com/control_linkage/wingadj.html

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/16/2009 12:57 AM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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From: thessaloniki, , GREECE
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David ,no film all surfaces are glassed and painted.
Jeff you got it 99% correct ,but instead of counter sink I use std hex screws for you can torque them much harder than countersink when setting ,I just make them flush with the fuse.
pappy ,these are std adjusters for incidence setting not for stab hight position setting .The latest are not available in the market as far as I know.
The latest drawing is stabilizer side view ,you can clearly note it moves the whole stabiliser up or down by the main tube.

Elias

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/16/2009 2:52 PM   
Magne


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Elias.

A couple more composite specific questions:

1. Is the 1.5mm Nomex sufficient to give you the required stiffness in the fuselage, or do you think 2mm would be better?
2. Is the weave pattern of the outer skin (100 g/m2 glass) becoming visible on the outside of the fuselage?
3. Is the hexagonal pattern of the Nomex showing through on the outside?

Regards,
Magne

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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/16/2009 11:30 PM   
Elias Sopeoglou


 

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From: thessaloniki, , GREECE
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Magne ,ofcourse 2mm is better than 1,5mm but think ,it´s already 50% more than 1mm balsa used by most manufacturers!
I think it´s enough for my liking.
Weave pattern does not show even on heavyer glasses ,this has to do with the thickness of the paint you use and if the fuse gets warm sometimes ,sorry I´m not sure I understood this question correct.
Honeycomb pattern shows a bit after the heat curing ,but nothing to much ,after all I think its more atractive ths way..
what are you building Magne ? is it top secret??

reguards
Elias




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RE: NEUTRINO - NEW F3A PROJECT FROM GREECE - 3/17/2009 2:49 AM   
Magne


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, Elias.
No, I am not working on any "top sectet" projects. ;-)
I made this model a few years ago ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1157858/anchors_3879310/mpage_11/key_/anchor/tm.htm#3879310 post No. 274)
That particular model is glass/1.5mm balsa/glass.
So I am just learnign about what works and what doesn't. Tried a lay-up with 2x50 g/m2 outer-2mm Nomex-1x50g/m2 inner also on a different model.
Using one layer of 100 g/m2 is easier, hence the question.
(R&G recommend pre-curing the outer layer before adding the Nomex for very thin laminates, therefore my earlier question about pre-curing. They say this is required to avoid the nomex showing through.)

How do you make the nomex go around the sharp inside canopy flange corner, do you make a large fillet with epoxy/micro balloons? (I just stopped the core short of the corner, and added a glass tape to increase the thickness locally.)

Regards,
Magne

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