RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/2/2012 3:57 AM

MercerAUST

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Make sure you are using the manual from the Horizon Hobby web site for the initial needle settings (not the Jap/English version that typically comes with the engine).

I had my FG-20 running for a continuous 80 minutes on the weekend for a total of 60 minutes air time, 15 take/off landing cycles and about 15 minutes idling while making mechanical trim adjustments to the plane at various times. I still didn't quite empty my 500 ml fuel tank in all that time. When tuned, these engines run like clock work and have stunning economy.

To Windgap, make sure your fueling set up is OK. It took a while for me to get mine right so fuel could flow freely to the engine. Mine still isn't perfect and I have to grind away with an electric starter for about 30 seconds before the fuel flows and it fires up on a cold start. Once warmed up, it is fine and restarts on a single finger flip. I suspect the exhaust valve is sticking because there is very little compression on a cold start. I'd hate to try and finger start it in that condition! As it is, I can get it going with the electric starter and it works just fine, so I'll leave it alone for now and resist the urge to fiddle..

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/2/2012 4:31 AM

alan0899

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G'day Windgap,
I just had my FG21 running again, changed tank from 470 ML to 180 ML or 6 OZ, runs perfect, I open throttle to about 1/4, hit with starter & in about 1 second the fuel is up to the carby,
reduce the throttle to a fast idle, turn on the ignition, & hit with my magnum geared starter, & away she goes, no grinding with starter, she just starts first hit & is running sweet.

LOVE this Engine, should have gone petrol years ago, but then again, they were'nt as good as they are now, years ago !!!!!!!

Cheers

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/2/2012 1:14 PM

ForcesR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WindGap

My arm hurts...been flipping this engine and can't get it to run. Been advised to use a starter, but no luck either.

Set HS needle 1-1/4 LS needle to 4-1/2 to 3-1/2.

It will spark once, and subsequent flipping wont spark(come to life). But i checked spark plug(unplugged) and its sparking. If i let it air out itll spark on first flip, but not afterwards.

The best ive gotten is a one sec run. It just wont run.

Any suggetions? Btw ive got a fg-17, but no thread for it yet.

WindGap;

If your engine is installed inverted, and the cowl is removed, you can inject/pour fuel down the air intake of the carburetor. You only have to put ½ to 1cc of fuel down the air intake; you can use a syringe or something similar to inject the fuel down the air intake. Just make sure your throttle is set a minimum of ¼ to ½ open when you add the fuel.

When you are ready to flip the engine over, set the throttle back to a high idle setting. Your engine should fire and run for 10 seconds or less until the fuel you added is exhausted. You can do this procedure several times; if the engine runs only with the fuel you added down the carburetor, then it’s a good indication that you have a defective carburetor that will not draw fuel. This was the procedure I used to confirm I had a faulty carburetor on my FG-20. HH sent me a free replacement carburetor which solved the problem. My FG-20 now starts easily and runs perfectly.

Roger

< Message edited by ForcesR -- 10/2/2012 5:50 PM >

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/2/2012 9:22 PM

WindGap

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quote:

ORIGINAL: alan0899

quote:

ORIGINAL: WindGap

15x6 xoar
I used the manual's sug 1-1/4 HS needle. Perhaps not enough? LS needle as per manual clockwise. Fuel is getting to carb. It does fire, just momentarily. Just won't run.

G'day Windgap,
Is that at idle, or at full throttle. LS is in from the needle being flush with the outside of the throttle arm, I didn't touch my LS, try HS out another couple of turns, it won't hurt, as the HS only comes in
at nearly full throttle.

Cheers.

Victory dance!

That's how my 7 yr old and I celebrate touchdowns!

You hit the nail on the head.

Started to think about what you suggested and what I was seeing. The carb wouldn't prime unless throttle fully open. So, the HS needle needed to be opened up. 5 turns counter clockwise, and it fird up. Getting somewhere. Opened up the LS needle to manual sug setting(3-1/2 unlike the fg-20) and it fired to life. Slowly closed the HS needle to tune out mid range after 15 min of < 4000rpm. Will tune some more later. All in all, it seems to fire up immediately at these new settings.

Thanks for all you help. Will be back for final tuning suggestions.

< Message edited by WindGap -- 10/3/2012 1:19 AM >

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/8/2012 1:28 AM

WindGap

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Ok got it in the air and deadsticked many times as i tuned. Kept opening LS needle and it got better each time until i ran into mechanical problems, called it quits. Engine would quit when increasing throttle on climbs(loading engines). Club member said LS needle too lean.

I think i need to open LS needle and keep flying/tuning till I hit the sweet spot. Any suggestions?

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/8/2012 9:05 AM

corbystarlet11

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Im having the same problem to, i had valves cleared but didnt seem to do much, but after i did i noticed i had to richin up the low speed to get it idling properly again

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/9/2012 3:01 AM

MercerAUST

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I think it is normally best to have the LS needle rich (try a full half turn richer) and then you can tune the HS about 10 clicks leaner to clean up the transition and top end. In my view, the best onground tune method is to point the prop to the sky. If it keeps running without missing a beat, it should not deadstick in the air due to the tuning being out. If it suddenly dies, try a bit richer on the HS. If it runs rough, try a bit leaner on the HS. Only adjust one click at a time if you are close.

Grab a sapre spark plug if you don't have one already. Mucking around with the tuning can get the plug pretty dirty and, when you have it running reliable (but it is still rough), a new plug might help.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/9/2012 4:19 PM

Johnysza

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Hi
can you tell me wich carb can I use valbro and zama types how much rpm you would lose.
thanks
john

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/13/2012 8:19 PM

Biggles2

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Iv been running my fg20 for about 6 months until the con rod became fused to the crank shaft pin and locked the engine up. I ordered a new con rod and noticed that it has been modified , Im told its the same as the new FG21 .It appears that this has been a common problem.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/24/2012 5:40 PM

ForcesR

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I’m beginning to think I have a Friday or Monday assembled engine. Since Horizon Hobby sent me a replacement carburetor for the FG20, it has run very well, smooth, loads of power and sounded great until yesterday.

I started the engine; let it fast idle for 40 to 50 seconds to allow warm up. I then advanced the throttle to check the maximum 8600rpm before I launched the Spitfire. At ½ throttle, the engine abruptly stopped, I went to do a restart and found that the prop/crankshaft would not turn, the engine is completely seized.

The engine only has 2hrs 20 minutes of total run time, it has not been run lean. The low speed needle is set at 4 turns 10 minutes from flush with the throttle arm. The high speed needle is set at approximately 1 turn 25 minutes from closed and the engine had a slight burble at full throttle which indicates slightly rich.

I am just glad the engine seized on the ground and not during the take off and climb out of the Spitfire. I’ll send the FG20 back to HH for warranty work, hopefully they will let me know what actually failed and caused the engine to seize.

Roger

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 10/24/2012 6:27 PM

Biggles2

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My fg20 did the same thing , I bought a new con rod and a drive shaft , the con rod has been re designed , it has fewer oil ways and a slightly different flange . It's seems its modification is an improvement as I've ran mine since without any problems so far. If I have anymore problems with this engine , I will sell it on . I've had a few saito engines (all glow) and really like them , very easy to work on and very reliable, it's a shame that the fg20 has so many faults. Lets hope that these problems are finally resolved .

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/9/2012 11:51 PM

Garthwood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Biggles2

My fg20 did the same thing , I bought a new con rod and a drive shaft , the con rod has been re designed , it has fewer oil ways and a slightly different flange . It's seems its modification is an improvement as I've ran mine since without any problems so far. If I have anymore problems with this engine , I will sell it on . I've had a few saito engines (all glow) and really like them , very easy to work on and very reliable, it's a shame that the fg20 has so many faults. Lets hope that these problems are finally resolved .

This is very discouraging reading all these negative comments on the FG20CC, reason being i have this engine NIB that i purchased in 2011 at the Toledo show. I fired up an email to Horizon to-day to ask them if i can replace the EI with the one the FG21CC has and also change the carb to the one on the FG21. I'm hoping that they'll reply to my email, but i'm sure the response will be a few days. I've 6 Saito glow engines and the only time i had trouble with a new SAITO 125 seizing up on, and it was running rich in this case. It was sent back to Horizon and guess what they reported that they replaced the con rod. I have since put in more than a 1/2 gallon of fuel 20/20 Wildcat to further break in this engine. I followed all the instructions on the manual, not to run it more than 4000rpm for the first 10 mins., which i ran it for more than 30 mins @ 4000rpms. It is running quite nicely now and installed on a TF Hawker Sea Fury (kit).

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/10/2012 12:13 AM

w8ye

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I have five Saito 125's and have never had any problem with them. A couple of them have several gallons of fuel through them.

I also have two FG-20's and one of them has a few gallons through it.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 11/16/2012 5:13 AM >

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/10/2012 1:14 AM

w8ye

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I have worked on a couple newer Saito's with seized connecting rods. In both cases I managed to free up the conrod and also to save the old conrod and return the engines to service..

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/10/2012 1:33 AM 1 votes

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CH Ignitions

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Hello guys,

It is anyone willing to send me a Saito FG21, I want to see what I can do as far as ignition replacement and maybe carb.
If I am not mistaken ...I think that FG20 and 21 use the same part number for carb.

Thanks
Adrian

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/10/2012 1:58 PM

Garthwood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CH Ignitions

Hello guys,

It is anyone willing to send me a Saito FG21, I want to see what I can do as far as ignition replacement and maybe carb.
If I am not mistaken ...I think that FG20 and 21 use the same part number for carb.

Thanks
Adrian

I will find out if carb/ei are the same for both FG20 and FG21 when i receive a reply to my email from Horizon Hobby.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/10/2012 2:05 PM

Garthwood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

I have worked on a couple newer Saito's with seized connecting rods. In both cases I managed to free up the conrod and also to save the old conrod and return the engines to service..

When it is still under a warranty i don't touch it but return it to Horizon. Here's a description of their report.

"Upon inspection , it was found that the connecting rod was seized to the crankpin on the crankshaft. The rear bearing was found to be turning rough. Parts were replaced and the engine was tested. The engine ran great. It had an idle at 2000rpms and a top-end at 8800rpms, using a 16x6 prop "

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/10/2012 3:54 PM

w8ye

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The ones I worked on were new engines. The rear bearings were not bad.

It is cheaper and faster to fix them youself than it is to mess around with Horizon and the shipping back and forth.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/12/2012 5:39 PM

Arruda

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The lubrication on four strokes model engines is poor. Worse in gas powered engines.
But every four stroke engine has a crankcase vent.
On glow engines we use it to inject after run oil after every flying day.
I keep this practice with my Saito FG-14. This time not to avoid corrosion, but to assure that in the beginning of the day I have a well lubricated engine.
I intend to do the same with my recently acquired FG-21, hopping to avoid the reported problems with the conrod/crackshaft bearing.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/20/2012 6:53 PM

ForcesR

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After 4 weeks I was ready to contact HH to find out why it was taking so long to repair and send back my FG-20. Before I made the phone call I decided to fire up the barbeque on the back sun deck. To my surprise, there on the rear deck was a box from HH with my FG-20 inside. According to my neighbour, the UPS delivery person placed it there 6 days before. The UPS delivery person didn't leave a note or voice mail to indicate that it had been delivered. Thank goodness it didn't rain for the past 6 days.

I got to work and mounted it in the Spitfire and fired it up, let it run below 4000rpm for 20 minutes and then set the high speed needle and adjusted the low speed needle, rechecked the HS RPM's and now it's ready for the maiden flight. According to the invoice, the technician replaced the connecting rod and carburetor. Hopefully my troubles with the FG-20 have ended.

Roger

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/20/2012 9:17 PM

Garthwood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ForcesR

After 4 weeks I was ready to contact HH to find out why it was taking so long to repair and send back my FG-20. Before I made the phone call I decided to fire up the barbeque on the back sun deck. To my surprise, there on the rear deck was a box from HH with my FG-20 inside. According to my neighbour, the UPS delivery person placed it there 6 days before. The UPS delivery person didn't leave a note or voice mail to indicate that it had been delivered. Thank goodness it didn't rain for the past 6 days.

I got to work and mounted it in the Spitfire and fired it up, let it run below 4000rpm for 20 minutes and then set the high speed needle and adjusted the low speed needle, rechecked the HS RPM's and now it's ready for the maiden flight. According to the invoice, the technician replaced the connecting rod and carburetor. Hopefully my troubles with the FG-20 have ended.

Roger

Good luck and let us know how it's performing. Mine it's still Nib (FG20CC) and no fuel went through it yet. Horizon informed me that the carb. on the new FG21 CC is the same as the one on the FG20CC, the only thing that is different on the new FG21CC is the electronic ignition. Is your FG20 has the original electronic ignition ?

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/20/2012 10:39 PM

WindGap

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Engine still dies(in air) when advancing from idle up, after flying for a while. Still too lean on low end?

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/21/2012 1:48 AM

MercerAUST

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I would try to richen the low end, perhaps try half a turn or more. I trhink these engines generally run best richer on the low end. They are less likely to dead stick and you can get a few more clicks leaner on the top end.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/21/2012 2:06 AM

Ernie Misner

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Sure, open the bottom end up a tad and see if it quits dead sticking. You don't want to be overly rich though or it will vibrate and shake a lot more as well as get lousy fuel ecomomy. Does it hesitate and want to die when it is idling and you stab the thtottle quickly? That is the other indication it is too lean on the bottom. If it's too lean on the top end that can cause excessive heat and dead sticks as well which is not good at all. When you get the hang of this, it will be right on the money on the bottom end and just barely rich on the top end.

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RE: Saito FG-20 or 21 - 11/21/2012 5:24 AM

alan0899

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G'day Garthwood,
I think maybe HH has it wrong, If both carbys are the same on the FG20 & FG21, why does Saito supply a new carby for the older FG20.
The carbys are different, & Saito changed a few things inside as well.
I love my FG21.

Cheers

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