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Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 1/25/2009 2:01 PM   
Patxipt


 

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I just bought my issue at the store this morning and while reading the magazine on the shopping mall, I was surprised to find an article regarding a diesel conversion (no, I don't read the index page)!

Mr David Turner starts talking about a friend's Enya 40-4C diesel; I especially like this quote, "So, what's good about the Enya 4-stroke diesel? [...] More importantly, the engine is incredibly quiet, frugal and unbelievable reliable."
How this brings me back memories about a few certain topics here in the "Everything diesel" forum. Wish some of us were this lucky with an out-of-the-box Enya 40-4C diesel.

He also mentions the cost of diesel vs glow fuel and the fuel economy, especially on larger engines. There is also a line regarding using pure pump diesel withjust ether added - seems to confirm some of my tests using old english mix made with pump diese: too much lubrication, diesel fuel has enough, it seems, for our engines.


Anyhow, besides the homemade conversion head for a ST .75, it is the way it was done that caught my attention, as Mr Turner made the contrapiston exactly as I did for my ASP 12A and 28A conversions a couple of years ago (posted here and built with all your help) - a simple M10x0.75 screw and nut serves both as contrapiston and as adjustment screw. Sadly, Mr Turner deosn't mention how he managed to seal the threads - The only way I found was using plumbers teflon tape and that only worked on the small thread size of the M5 screw used on the 12A. Maybe he got lucky, maybe he knows better than me

Sure made my day reading in a model mag something different and smelly

Cheers!

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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 1/27/2009 11:23 PM   
AMB


 

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Well you get an A for effort. In this country (USA) we call this " Hillbilly Engineering"
The compression will leak past the screw at some point, Teflon tape is right up there with Duct tape
fixes anything

Our diesels either the classic paw type using a contra piston in the cylinder or a glow to diesel conversion head containing it ( Davis being the most successful over the years) is the standard. You have a correct squish area the compression of the charge and ignition are against the contra piston not a screw bottom.Also a note on purpose built diesel Look at an MVVS 15 parts breakdown the difference is just a contrapiston in the bore and and an adjustment screw in the head to control its travel as a diesel conversion the MVVS glow engine had the contra in its head as a bolt on conversion also the enya 11,15, and 25 same engine base glow or diesel the carb is sleeved (at least on the 25) for diesel use
the older Irvines pre Mark lls and llls. Q40 is the same engine as the Irvine diesel except for the head
my Q40 is now an irvine diesel with the irvine head also have the Davis head for it
the HEADS WILL NOT FIT THE OLD REGULAR IRVINE 40 SINCE A DIFFERENCE IN BORE AND STROKE
THE Q40 AND 40 DIESEL ALSO USE THE 46 CRANK HENCE THE BORE AND STROKE DIFFERENCE MARTIN

< Message edited by AMB -- 1/28/2009 1:17 AM >


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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 1/28/2009 1:37 AM   
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I'd have found someone local with machine shop skills who could cut a groove just a few turns above the beginning of the thread. The depth of the groove would be the just under the width of the Viton O-ring that will be the right fit for the M10 screw or whatever size you're working with as the compression screw/contrapiston. The width of the groove would be the same as that of the O-ring. Just screwing it in would squeeze the O-ring around its outside diameter enough to get a great seal.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Patxipt
Sadly, Mr Turner deosn't mention how he managed to seal the threads - The only way I found was using plumbers teflon tape and that only worked on the small thread size of the M5 screw used on the 12A. Maybe he got lucky, maybe he knows better than me



< Message edited by lildiesel -- 1/28/2009 1:43 AM >


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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 1/28/2009 2:03 AM   
AMB


 

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Just a guess the O rings life may be shortened by the thin edge of the threads vs a sold contra with its grove
as it is moved in or out martin

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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 1/28/2009 2:56 AM   
lildiesel



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I'd say you're right about shortened O-ring life, but O-rings aren't all that expensive. With a large engine and a starter just how much and how often will it be adjusted?


quote:

ORIGINAL: AMB
Just a guess the O rings life may be shortened by the thin edge of the threads vs a sold contra with its grove
as it is moved in or out martin



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 1/28/2009 3:22 PM   
gkamysz


 

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I don't think an O ring mached into a thread is going to seal. If you are going to go to the trouble of having somebody machine it why not just do it the proper way?

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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 12:09 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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I just found this thread.

I didn't eliminate gas leakage past the M10 x .75 thread...but it wasn't horrendous and didn't seem to pose any detriment to the engine's running. More "hillbilly engineering", I guess. The whole project was an experiment, knocked up with the minimum effort.

 If I wanted to do a better job, I'd simply shave a midgin from the standard cylinder head...you may recall that the engine will run well using its standard head, provided that you energise the glow plug to assist in starting. A small increase in compression, over the as-bought standard, would be useful. That would solve any potential problems with blow-past. But, of course, you are left with a fixed-compression diesel and so a very limited propeller' choice.

Meanwhile, I fancy taking a crack at a four-stroke. That Enya is just beautiful. Here's a bit of video of the Enya in action. I do have some of the ST.75 in action too, if you are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56TlDkyqErU

David Turner



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 12:16 PM   
Patxipt


 

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Please, do post!


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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 12:54 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhOm2TL72t4 

A rough old model, which I cadged from a pal, fitted with the ST .75 diesel...just to prove that it works!

Actually, I've been pondering diesel issues for some time. What do you think about using a diesel engine, running at a steady speed, in conjunction with a Constant Speed Unit?

With available off-the-shelf technology, I reckon that this wouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Any thoughts?



< Message edited by bogbeagle -- 5/22/2009 12:56 PM >


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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 1:01 PM   
Patxipt


 

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One like this baby of mine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmJvpNlfIM




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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 1:31 PM   
gkamysz


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

Actually, I've been pondering diesel issues for some time. What do you think about using a diesel engine, running at a steady speed, in conjunction with a Constant Speed Unit?



I caught your pun of "the Stig" from Top Gear.

What are you hoping to achieve with a constant speed unit?



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 3:28 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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Very nice, Patxipt...I'd like to see the airframe you put that in.

Gkamysz, AFAICS, one of the major drawbacks of diesels is the problem of operating over a wide speed range (I mean our model diesels, which have no fuel injection).

If I could run the engine at fairly constant RPM, but vary the load via the medium of controllable pitch, I could get around the need for contra-pistons, but still have a practical power unit for model aircraft.

The engineering should be fairly simple (says he, having never actually tried it!). I just need to get around to making it happen.



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 7:26 PM   
gkamysz


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

Gkamysz, AFAICS, one of the major drawbacks of diesels is the problem of operating over a wide speed range (I mean our model diesels, which have no fuel injection).



It seems that most diesel run very well from idle to full throttle. Maybe I'm not understanding something.



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 8:14 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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I agree that they will run well from idle to full throttle, over a wide rpm range, but only if you tinker with the compression.

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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/22/2009 8:33 PM   
gkamysz


 

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It's an easy idea to test. Take an engine set it up to run full throttle. Then install smaller props while throttling to obtain the same RPM. I don't think this will work better than what we do now. I'm working on a similar application of a diesel engine, but still have a couple weeks before I get to running it. The load speed relationship of a prop on the crank seem to match pretty well the required timing changes that are associated.


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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/24/2009 9:02 AM   
bogbeagle


 

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Have you guys been having trouble with the Enya 40 diesels, then?

The one which I have been flying (in the Ready 2) belongs to my friend. We've both been using it, from new. Since that time, I have accumulated a little over two flying hours with the model. I'm not sure how much time he has spent flying the plane; probably a similar amount. When we first acquired the engine, we had a bit of fun. What we'd do is to flick-start the model (making sure that there was an audience) and leave it plopping along at idle whilst we wandered off and sat down...and waited...and waited.

Several people were completely taken in by the fact that we had started our "glow" engine without the aid of a glow-driver; and they were quite ready to believe that we had, indeed, devised a self-igniting glow plug. They would be even more amazed when, after a very sustained idle, the engine would pick up and be ready for flight. Of course, these guys were unfamiliar with the smell of diesel fuel, and so were ripe for comic exploitation. They'd be salivating at the prospect of buying one of our special glow plugs, at the knock-down price of just £28.

Anyway, during its time with us, that little Enya has never quit; save for when we've run the tank dry. A .70-sized engine would be great, but I don't believe that they have any plans to make one.

The Laser diesels are really difficult to find. I tried to source one  a while back, but the only one that I could find was just too expensive. I contacted the man, Mr Tidey, but he told me that he has no diesels, no spares and no plans to re-introduce these products. Were the Laser diesels any good? I dunno.



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/24/2009 2:40 PM   
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There are a couple videos of the Laser diesels on youtube, though on the bench. My four stroke conversions have also been solid runners. Never quit. My Enya 41-4CD is a bit of a lemon. The piston liner fit are simply too tight or defective. It feels fine with the head off, but as soon as I tighten the head the pinch at TDC becomes a bind. I have run it on the bench and it sounds awful. I'm scared to break it in like that for fear of breaking the conrod. I should just send it back to Enya for service. I purchased mine before they were widely available, or even believed to exist, through a hobby shop in Japan. I had another which I sold and he had run it and was happy.


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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/24/2009 4:12 PM   
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bogbeagle, what size prop do you use on your Enya .41 FS diesel for flying?  Is your engine stock or have you changed the compression?  I have only run mine on the bench in stock condition.  Jack

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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/24/2009 8:32 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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Re Enya prop and compression. I will come back to you with this information asap. As I say, the motor belongs to my pal. So, I don't have it in front of me so that I can take a look at the prop. I'll email him right now.



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/25/2009 12:37 AM   
Jim Thomerson



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Bogbeagle, in regards to changing head shims on a 2-stroke, to quote the late George Aldrich, "Taking a head off and changing shims is not brain surgery. "

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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/26/2009 4:55 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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OK, my pal says that when he received the engine, it was partially disassembled. He fitted a single shim to the cylinder head...shim as supplied by Enya.

I recall that we bored out the dummy glow-plug, so as to reduce the compression a bit further.

Prop is a 12 x 5.

Commercial diesel brew.

Works very well. Only slight niggle is a little hesitation following a prolonged idle. We think that this results from the engine becoming chilled.



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RE: Diesel in February's RC Model World mag - 5/28/2009 7:23 PM   
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Thanks for the info bogbeagle on the Enya .41 FS diesel.  I have run mine right out of the box.  I did not install the valve cover or push rod tubes.  There are two head shims in a plastic bag.  Thicker shim appears to be aluminium and he thinner one may be copper.  Not sure as I did not remove from the plastic bag.  I ran on two cool days early this Spring.  First day with a Zinger 12/7 wood prop and second day with a B Y & O 12/6 wood prop.  Probably a bit over compressed with these props.  Maybe I will try a bad Enya glow plug bored out to reduce compression.  Jack

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