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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/11/2009 10:27 AM   
steven brown


 

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god mate u have some sweet idea,s on the engine,s and all the gear u have on the beetle since u have the tray off u can eather send that to me or send me a spot on temp off it .i got another few bits off ali the other day just to make sure u had enough for them. send me a pm with bits and bobs u would swap for the trays ..

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/11/2009 10:25 PM   
dc2 man


 

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yeah man trust me this engine is going to be a BEAST.....

so did you get your bits today man?

if not defo tomorrow...

man we need to discuss matters on that actually,its up to you,what would you like from my selection?

shout away man..

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/11/2009 11:07 PM   
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siad i would post this here for you sj as you may not have got the reply to your questions.

hope this helps.

hello sj

well i spoke to mr wolfgang lendrich on the phone on and off and he gave me some great info ages ago on the cad g270 motor,firstly he said that the cad engine was in his opinion the most powerfull engine germany had to offer...it has intensive hand modifications done and porting work,also a lot of the engine work is blueprinted including the porting work (meaning exclusive to the tuning company themselves and unique in there own work and specs) blueprinted meaning also information that cannot be disclosed..they feature four bolt head,elastic gasket sealent applied,additional bearing to clutch side.

man i think it is going to be good,i mean he also said they use these in the world championships where allowed in that class.

as the saying goes you get what you pay for well i hop this applies here in this case lol

i asked wolfgang if he could tell me the hp of this engine and he said 6hp.
im guessing that could be nearing 7with tuned pipe...

it does come with manuals and details of the work that was carried out to it he told me,but as some of it is blueprinted i may never know exactly.. maybe in case the work could be copied,but he guaranteed me it is a unique engine.

so just another two weeks and hopefully i will have vids up of this monster,CANT WAIT......been so long sinse i ran this fg that i miss it real bad lol

here is the link,
cheers sj

http://www.rc-car-online-shop.de/lshop,showdetail,28984,e,1241994889-29004,motor.motor,cad_240_270,,Tshowrubmotor.motor,.htm


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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/12/2009 6:12 AM   
waqr



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Hi dc2man! I can`t wait to see that engine mounted into your Beetle. I think it will be one crazy Bettle with this engine. Do you plan on changing the carburator? I guess you are using the orignal Walbro 603 right now?

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/12/2009 8:34 AM   
dc2 man


 

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hello man

yeah im really excited to see the power,did you see the engine on hobbytheks page?

will be great.
it comes with a tuned carb but i dont know which one lol

must actually find out lol

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/13/2009 11:38 PM   
dc2 man


 

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hey waqr i must find out what carb this new engine comes with by the way.

i am pretty sure it is the newer chokeless model carb with the internal pump fitted......supposed to give a better low down torque.....and higher rpm......and better fuel economy lol

as if we are going to notice the differnce in fuel economy with this engine..

cheers waqr

http://www.rc-car-online-shop.de/lshop,showdetail,6145,e,1242254355-6444,motor.vergaser,y0251,,Tshowrubmotor.vergaser,.htm


or it may also be this model....

http://www.rc-car-online-shop.de/lshop,showdetail,6145,e,1242254395-6532,motor.vergaser,y1066,,Tshowrubmotor.vergaser,.htm

im not sure which type it comes with,i guess i must wait and see.....

< Message edited by dc2 man -- 5/13/2009 11:41 PM >


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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/14/2009 6:14 AM   
waqr



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Hi!

Yeah, I have seen that engine on Hobbytheks homepage. Looks extremely well built. Great that they have added some gasket sealent from the beginning since this really prevents annoying leakage from the cylinder head.

I guess it will either come with a Walbro 603 or Walbro 813 (with the accelerator pump).

When will you get it? What differs this engine from other ported and modded engine? Is the porting different? Is it a 27,2 or a 30,5 cc?

//waqr

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/14/2009 8:06 PM   
dc2 man


 

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hey waqr

this unit is on the way to me and i will have it the 26th of this month.

what differs this engine from other ported engines is build quality,attention to detail,intensity on the hand work to this engine is pretty unreal....i have looked lots more about it,also as you can see it pumps out very high torque and hp,it has a blueprinted crankcase and other bits which is unique to this tuners work so we may never know the specs fully......there is a lot of big detail and time spent on this one off unique engine,these engines are tuned from top state of the art CAD MACHINING which only top of the range bmws and mercs can avail of,this means serious stuff for an rc zenoah stroker engine!! the porting will be nothing like anything we are used to,it will be amazing......... cad machining is state of the art......

for the price i would imagine it should (im expecting the best engine here actually with this) unreal,it will cost well over 800euro between shipping and taxes....

the way i look at it is this,i have sold my own engines all except 2,the cy 29cc billet stroker is still for sale and the 23cc solo,and i have now my zenoah 23cc in my carson which im very happy with,but i have sold my o neills race ported engine like yours, so that is something off the price i guess, i believe everybody will always change engines and in long term they will spend a lot of money constantly swapping and changing so i think i am better off sorting out my power plant for once and for all....for life i hope

i will never sell the fg beetle,when this engine goes in i estimate i will be pushing towards 7grand invested in this FG between all the engines i have bought ever,alloy,3 rebuilds.......airbrushed shells............pipes.........parts......etc etc and all the latest elcon stuff.......servos,all the time i bashed it hard and rebuild it again..........im telling you this gives you an idea of how serious i take my hobby!! now that estimation is based on the last almost 5years running and upgrading it,so it was spred out over time THANK GOD lol

i guess the yard outside my house will have to wait till next year lol hahaha



< Message edited by dc2 man -- 5/14/2009 8:36 PM >


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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/14/2009 9:10 PM   
waqr



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Sounds good One stupid question: What does blueprinted means ?



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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/14/2009 9:44 PM   
dc2 man


 

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Engine Blueprinting...IN DETAIL FOR WAQR...

Blueprinting

Blueprinting is the remachining of components to tighter tolerances to achieve better balance.

Ideally, blueprinting is performed on components removed from the production line before normal balancing and finishing. If finished components are blueprinted, there is the risk that the further removal of material will weaken the component. However, lightening components is generally an advantage in itself provided balance and adequate strength are both maintained, and more precise machining will in general strengthen a part by removing stress points, so in many cases performance tuners are able to work with finished components and go the quest for maxmium from this engine in every aspect.


Engine blueprinting is a standard procedure utilized at a machine shop. Blueprinting your engine is completely nessassary to obtain maximum power and to insure the longest possible engine life and reliability. It also adds discipline to the process which decreases any chance of engine failure due to improper clearances.

When people set out to build the ULTIMATE ENGINE they blueprint it which means hand building an engine with perfectly fit components using maximum and minimum recommended clearances. These specifications are determined using this cad engine 35 years of engine building experience.

The Engine Blueprint Process

First, one needs to make sure all parts are one hundred percent clean. This is done by boiling the block, making certain water jackets are perfectly clean.you would also inspect and analyze the block (especially if it's used) bolt holes would be re-tapped, cleaned and oiled, as well as their mating bolts. Any surfaces refinish will have all holes chamfered, and any casting burrs or irregularities will be ground away.

this would be how a car engine would be blueprinted so same technique and painstaking effort would apply to my zenoah cad engine.

on a car or anything with The V type block it will be align bored to maintain perfectly equal deck heights and keeping the crankshaft parallel to the decks. Any variation in these areas will result in irregularities in combustion chamber volume. This is critical in the accurate and precision blueprinting process.

After align boring, cylinders are bored with the main bearing caps still torqued in place. then finish hone the cylinders to their proper size using a 220-280 grit stone and taking care to obtain a good cross hatch pattern. After honing the block it must be boiled again, taking care to remove all honing grit from the bores and also from the lower end of the block.

The crankshaft must have correct angularity of the rod throws as well as be perfectly straight. If your block is used it will be checked for cracks and have the journals ground to perfect angular index. Oil holes get chamfered and bearing surfaces polished. The oil passages are then cleaned thoroughly with a good brush.they would use fully grooved main bearings or groove or cross drill the crankshaft main bearing journals. These procedures are also helpful in insuring longer engine life.

If used the connecting rods will be carefully checked for imperfections and Magnafluxed. All rods are reworked so they are EXACTLY the same length from crankshaft centerline to wrist pin centerline. Generally the length of the rods will be controlled by working to the minimum manufacturer's clearance for piston to deck. Any burrs and irregularities will be removed from the rods, and always use new rod bolts and nuts. The rod alignment and side clearance are also critical.

The pistons should be individually and carefully fit to the respective pins. Chamfering any sharp edges on the piston reduces possibility of localized hot spots which cause pre-ignition and/or detonation. Each piston is carefully matched for clearance with each bore. Too little clearance will result in scuffing and too much clearance reduces the effectiveness of the rings.

The compression rings should each be placed in the bore and straightened with the top of a piston to square the ring in the bore. Gaps can then be checked, with .0035 per inch of bore the minimum allowable gap. also sure to check ring side clearance in piston groove. The maximum is .006 but .003-.004 is most desirable.

Now that the main reciprocating components are selected and fit, the engine roatating assemblies be balanced. they would continue balancing with rings, pistons, rods, bearings, crankshaft, flywheel, crankshaft dampner and pulley.(remember this would be a four cylinder four stroke procedure) but you are seeing the meaning and detail involved in the "blueprinting process... Some engines recommend an allowance for oil weight in the crankshaft when balancing. Additional weight is added to the bob weights in these cases to compensate for oil weight. Balancing will provide insurance for engine durability, and will also help obtain maximum horse-power.

The cylinder head is disassembled, cleaned and carefully inspected for cracks. If the surface is in questionable condition they would go ahead and resurface it. All holes and sharp edges should be carefully chamferred and deburred. Bolt and spark plug holes get retapped and cleaned. The valve guides are checked and replaced or repaired as necessary.

would also check valve stems and replace those valves not acceptable. This is also the time we machine the valve guides if necessary for the installation of seals. The valve job should be done according to recommendations for the engine.

All burrs and irregularities should be polished out of the combustion chamber. After this the chambers should be checked for volume in cubic centimeters. The chambers are then enlarged by grinding to the volume of the largest chamber. When all chambers are equalized the desired minimum CC's you can mill the heads carefully until the correct volume is reached.

In order to check the CC volume of the chamber a Plexiglas plate, light oil, and a chemical burette are needed. With the spark plug and valves installed the plate is placed over the combustion chamber and sealed with a light coat of lubricant. Using the burette it is then a simple matter to measure the amount of liquid needed to fill the combustion chamber.

Valve springs are checked for tension and installed height, and replaced or shimmed as needed. If the head has individual rocker arms on studs the stud should be threaded or pinned in its boss.

The next step is to torque main bearing and rod bolts slowly and in progressive steps to the proper tension. they would use protectors on the rod bolts to prevent crankshaft scars, and keep rotating the engine as each step in the installation of the crankshaft and pistons is taken. This will enable spotting the exact location of any misfit or mismatched parts.The use of Plastigage here will serve as a double check on clearances.

then install the timing gears and chain the use of a camshaft degree wheel will insure perfect crankshaft to camshaft timing.

Offset keys or cam gear bushings are available to allow accurate adjustment of possible timing discrepancies.

After installing the heads, one would make sure they are torqued to the proper specifications, the valve train will then be completed and checked. In cases where higher lift camshafts have been installed it is possible to have the valve spring bottom out, or the canoe type rocker be interfered with by its mounting stud. Where this happens the spring must be changed, and the rocker arm relieved to provide the necessary clearance.

The complete engine build they would go through must be performed as painstakingly and accurately as possible. The blueprinted engine is the utmost in performance, horsepower and durability possible.

When your engine was mass produced by the manufacturer, the various parts were made to an ideal size, give or take a bit. Unfortunately with all the parts giving or taking a bit you end up with an engine that is not all that ideal. On the other hand, if you have an engine made up from all ideal parts, you have a real beauty and don't let it out of your sight.

Blueprinting is just a method of adjusting or machining parts to bring them back to the specified tolerance without giving or taking. This is a highly specialised job, and should be done by experts in conjunction with the latest rule book.


over time waqr i have done a lot of research and i hope this helps you.this info is based on a 1/1 scale machine but you can see the detail that goes in to a BLUEPRINTED engine,so this will give you some idea of the work and detail that will be in this cad zenoah 27cc....



dc

< Message edited by dc2 man -- 5/14/2009 10:32 PM >


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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/14/2009 10:19 PM   
steven brown


 

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looks like u have been busy mate
i,ll post u some pics off the truck laetr on in the week i,m just about
all the bits back on it thank god .just a few teething probs

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/15/2009 10:15 AM   
dc2 man


 

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cool stevo

are you having gear trouble...

whats wrong....let u know the story man with it.

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/15/2009 12:11 PM   
sam123


 

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Hey man. I cant wait to see how this new engine of yours performs If it has more power than the TS engines then it must be an incredible machine
When/if you make a video of it running, would it be possible to post it on youtube? For some reason my internet browser has never let me view videos on photobucket from this forum. Something weird with the settings on my computer I guess

Also, just wondering how often you rebuild your engines? and to what extent...

Cheers.

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/15/2009 1:26 PM   
steven brown


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dc2 man

cool stevo

are you having gear trouble...

whats wrong....let u know the story man with it.


u kow the score mate if u change so much in the one go all the bits need to fit and thats just not happening yet

the front lower arms r stopping the stearing working right so i,ll have to playw ith that till it does .l

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/15/2009 6:46 PM   
dc2 man


 

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yeah man i read you

its easy when you sit down and relax and figure it out...

you will figure it all out man,if they are made for that car they should all fit no bothers like a glove....

keep me updated and if you need amy help man dont hessitate to ask...

dc

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/20/2009 11:35 PM   
dc2 man


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sam123

Hey man. I cant wait to see how this new engine of yours performs If it has more power than the TS engines then it must be an incredible machine
When/if you make a video of it running, would it be possible to post it on youtube? For some reason my internet browser has never let me view videos on photobucket from this forum. Something weird with the settings on my computer I guess

Also, just wondering how often you rebuild your engines? and to what extent...

Cheers.


hey sam123
sorry for the late reply,i dont rebuild engines much man a good engine should never need rebuilding ever,well only after something like 150hours of hard run time,a good engine relys on two things,a good airfilter kit,avoid k&ns as they just injest dirt and everything harmfull in to engine,and a good rich mixture say 150to 5 liters is a great mix with good oil.some engines can overcome injesting some very small debris believe it or not but of course they shouldnt ever,when they do most of this exits exhaust port but then you could be unlucky and bang scored....throw it away then,i rebuild mine when i upgrade displacement say like going from 23cc to 26cc like in my onroad or say like the stock 26cc i had in my beetle to the one i had (sold now) to a race ported motor 27.2cc o neill bros with new bottom end bearings (team fast eddys) and seals,new gaskets etc etc....... now as im getting my new engine next TUESDAY!! ))) i wont be rebuilding for a long time to come hopefully.......)

**UPDATE**

so my new engine is coming next tuesday,)))) i will upload pics when it comes (thanks my lovely nicola) and wolfgang for your help(hobbythek) man i am going to have some mental videos now......

steven brown a great lad here on this forum is making me up a complete alloy roll cage and radio tray from polished alloy,and i will be using an fg fomula 1 air filter as they are the safest and believe it or not fits the beetle perfect...a must with an engine of this degree.........

but i also need some parts,i need the following which i wont have for another two weeks.

1/new battery pack
2/ two new rear monster rims
3/all new leads/wiring
4/large new hitek steering servo
5/alloy rear hub as too much play in my own.
6/my alloy cage from steven and radio tray
7/formula 1 air filter

so after i get engine these will be on the way in around two weeks later...

when i get engine i will install it first anyway and polish everything up.
so get ready for REBUILD #4
dc2 man

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/21/2009 12:01 PM   
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Thanks for the reply.

I guess I wont worry about rebuilding it for quite some time then   or at least until the grooves on the piston skirt have scuffed away...thats if the car Im putting it into can even last that long



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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/21/2009 1:13 PM   
dc2 man


 

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well the car you have looks fairly solid in fairness,it looked quick with the old engine it is going to be mental with this zenoah.............

looking forward to seeing it done.

so any word on it?


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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/21/2009 7:44 PM   
waqr



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So only 5 more days until your engine arrives (I have been counting the days ) I guess you are pretty excited, right? When do you think you wil have your Beetle drivable with you new engine? I`m really longing for plenty of videos to see how that engine performs.

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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/21/2009 11:14 PM   
dc2 man


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: waqr

So only 5 more days until your engine arrives (I have been counting the days ) I guess you are pretty excited, right? When do you think you wil have your Beetle drivable with you new engine? I`m really longing for plenty of videos to see how that engine performs.


yes man really cant wait to get it now......i am really waiting to see how it performs myself .
i will clean up the complete car now this weekend and when engine comes i will fit it but it will be another two weeks at least before i will have the required order from hobbythek in order to get everything ok..........

but then i will have an fg for life BULLETPROOF............. i hope lol..

oh there will be some vids in around two weeks!!

stay tuned... )




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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/26/2009 12:54 PM   
dc2 man


 

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well hello all the time has come for my engine to come i love it,it looks really well made.....they even drilled holes through the head bolts to put wire through them to prevent them loosening.....this model is the zenoah 4bolt G270 with extensive hand work/blueprinting work done.

comes with all paperwork from the tuner,and a service book with a storage bag and wooden crate.

i am very happy with it,i also got a f1 airfilter for it as wolfgang would not let me take it without one lol,it was the safest option.

thanks nicola so much for this lovely present i cant wait to get it up and running with this jetpro pipe (aprox two weeks) i must give it a very good run in period also..

and thanks to wolfgang lendrich (hobbythek) for sending the engine on time.

cant wait to go rebuilding this now.......

very hard to get colse up pictures to come out good...

regards dc2














was impossible to get a clear picture of the work they have done to intake side but it looks VERY IMPRESSIVE...like nothing i have seen,deep ridges in to the head.






so stay tuned for #4 rebuild on this fg beetle,when i get my new parts to complete it i will start it...

all the best
dc











< Message edited by dc2 man -- 5/26/2009 1:28 PM >


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RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/26/2009 1:27 PM   
steven brown


 

Posts: 175
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Joined: 4/9/2009
Last Login: 9/18/2009
From: helensburgh scotland, UNITED KINGDOM
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cany wait to see these pics mate

 happy birthday buddy



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(in reply to dc2 man)
       Post #: 147

RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/26/2009 1:30 PM   
dc2 man


 

Posts: 1547
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Last Login: 11/21/2009
From: limerick, IRELAND
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thanks steven man.

i better make the most of this engine because it will be along long time before i will be able to afford another one lol

cheers man

pics just updated..

dc


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ONE OFF custom BOMBPROFF elcon fg beetle.fg competition -evo spec. GT5-R,C5,F1 on the way. R/C ROOM & WORKSHOP IN PROGRESS )

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(in reply to steven brown)
       Post #: 148

RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/26/2009 8:17 PM   
dc2 man


 

Posts: 1547
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From: limerick, IRELAND
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just placed my order there now with hobbythek and i should have all my parts within next two weeks to get this beetle rebuild up and running....

CANT WAIT!!!!!!

dc


_____________________________

ONE OFF custom BOMBPROFF elcon fg beetle.fg competition -evo spec. GT5-R,C5,F1 on the way. R/C ROOM & WORKSHOP IN PROGRESS )

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(in reply to dc2 man)
       Post #: 149

RE: FG BEETLE PRO REBUILD THREAD(my style) - 5/27/2009 12:05 AM   
steven brown


 

Posts: 175
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Joined: 4/9/2009
Last Login: 9/18/2009
From: helensburgh scotland, UNITED KINGDOM
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lol i,ll be doing the smae as u dan . i,ve been out with the hummer and by god did it take off lol

it was screeming until if had a few probs .the wee drive cog came off so i nipped home got a allan key and sorted that so off i went again

then the bloody front right hub arm snapped on me . now i need to start looking for a new set .i,m eather going to get ali or plastic still tyring to work out whats what and what one,s will fit my truck .aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



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