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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 1:02 AM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: bokis

Building pics for those of you that are interested are here: http://picasaweb.google.se/ivvesrc/ProjektB17#
He is an amazing guy!

Bokis


Very, Very, VERY, nice!! I would love to learn construction from him. The rivits are perfect. I'd love to see how he does it.

SR

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 6:07 AM   
Speedracer2112



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Status: offline 		Well it official. After looking at the photos Bokis posted and then a Wingspan build thread today I bought a 138" Wingspan Models B-17G "Complete Kit". Im totally SIKED!!! The last plane I built was in 1992. I always loved to build but ARFs made life easy for awhile. I'm ready to go! This is going to be GREAT!!!

If they drop the price of this B-17 I might pick it up later as a trainer as I still like the plane.

I hope everyone has fun with this these planes. Post some pics!!

SR



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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 7:15 AM   
Quigleywins


 

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Speedracer2112

Good to see that your making a start on a B17 That sight was fantastic a great report on the stages of construction. Can you please keep as good record of your build and post some where the build. Just remember that the standard has been set in that post above, I need you to be as good or better as I will be looking in on you from time to time. I just love looking at well reported builds,they can be a work of art ,and most interesting Yours Paul

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 8:16 AM   
MANFRED



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Status: offline 		How about this one? http://www.pw-rc.com/product_info.php/cPath/67/products_id/1649?osCsid=7dsru9rjk16ks659c5b9mo6ub4

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 5:57 PM   
norm


 

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Status: offline 		I do agree with you Quigleywins,

I started a Lancaster in sept 2008 should be finished this winter ( our winter here in Montreal) great venture enriching and pleasant. The wingspanmodel is reputed and a fantastic build. Also Mike Craemer is always available for support...he calls back as much as he loves to sell. The Wingspan model 1/9th B17 is my next build as soon as I get through this "Semi scratch" 1/9th Lancaster. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8051097/anchors_8051097/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8051097 Lots more than an ARF since you have to make your own molds, design your own pieces and all the tooling and custom made parts involved +/- 14,000US$ but it end up being a masterpiece. It is a real bargain to buy an ASM for +/- 4500 built up but as they say " you get what you pay for...like losing 5 dollars is worse than spending 20.

Too bad wingspan does not make a lancaster!!!

normand

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 6:26 PM   
Quigleywins


 

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Status: offline 		normandouellette I have read your thread before as I have always been a fan of the Lancaster. When I was about 13 years of age my family went to Cambera In the ACT ,we visited the G for George I can remember just standing there looking at this wonderous aircraft. The nex time that I visited Cambera the room that G for George was in was cloced to the public. That didn't stop me I opened the side door and had a very private look at her again. It is one of the wonders of the world. Have you see any in Canada I know they have ,I think Two like the Australians. yours Paul T PS Its the 22 over here any lanks in the LHS yet.

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 6:38 PM   
norm


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah we have one that fly here; in fact for 2000$ CDN they take you for a flight as a crew member and you get a free calendar and a museum membership for a year!

Normand

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 11:01 PM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: normandouellette

The wingspanmodel is reputed and a fantastic build. Also Mike Craemer is always available for support...he calls back as much as he loves to sell. The Wingspan model 1/9th B17 is my next build.
normand



Hey Norman!! Talk about customer service!!! Mike called me right after I bought the plane to say "Thank You" and stated, "If you need any help or support I would be happy to help, just call". Wild Stuff!!

I had also found a coupon on another site for a sale this summer which made the 138" Complete Kit, which includes everything, less than the ASM model!!! Mike said he forgot about it and forgot to take it off the site as we are heading into building season up north. Re: No more coupons now.

I picked up the gear also. Its all scale, wheels and all, with a discount for picking up the entire kit. I LOVE discounts!! (Wiggle Room)

What the heck. If your going to do it, DO IT RIGHT!!

LOVE IT!!

SR

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/22/2010 11:13 PM   
norm


 

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Status: offline 		SR,

Great project to get into, building your own to your own standards is also fun... different than flying but just as gratifying. Please keep us posted on a build thread, great way to obtain tricks and shortcuts or to find products or material you may need from experienced builders.


Normand

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/28/2010 5:36 AM   
Quigleywins


 

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Status: offline 		Now that I've had the Lancaster for a time now you start thinking about the strength of the type of construction, which was a result of see one go in at the Shepparton Mamoth scale day on the 18 of Setember. This aircraft went in at a slow, speed over long grass, with the gear up one wing at a lower angle than the other. this resulted in the arcraft being a total right off. What I'v been thinking is if it flys with out any rough landings on good runways and all motors keep running ,in particular the out board ones,all will be fine.
I have looked at the construction and I now wondering if I could sheet the in side of the formers to give more strength to the frame . Thinking of how tall buildings are made where the lift well is the major strength of the building. I only wish there were more of these thing were arround so I could get some good advice on this subject. If you are thinking of making the step have a good look at the design and construction of the Fus.
I hope the shots of the inside of the tail will show the lack of strength in this area.

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/28/2010 2:56 PM   
bokis


 

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From: vallentuna , SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Mine is coming along nicely.
I´m still waiting for the legs but it looks like I will have this one airborne before the snow gets here if I´m lucky...
Looks good so far and no major issues and it is going to be light!
For those of You that want to see a couple of pictures: http://www.rcflyg.se/forum/showthread.php/26794-ASM-Lancaster/page2?p=234068

//Bokis

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/28/2010 4:19 PM   
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Status: offline 		It doesn't have a keel. There is no length-wise support. For the money involved, it needs more structure. All that's holding it together is the plastic outer skin.

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/28/2010 4:49 PM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: Lifer

It doesn't have a keel. There is no length-wise support. For the money involved, it needs more structure. All that's holding it together is the plastic outer skin.

I really think the foam idea I hve would help. I'm off work tomorrow and will see if I can throw together a sample. I don't see these planes selling well in the USA. They are ALL risk investments without some type of reinforcement to the fusalage.

SR

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/28/2010 5:57 PM   
Quigleywins


 

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Status: offline 		I'm keen to hear more about any support that can be added to the fus as I stated in other threads that this is the main issue with it lasting any time. Maybe a foam sandwich could help. one thing because of the size there is lots of room to work in. Yours Paul t Ps that is a carbon fiber rod in the top .

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 12:08 AM   
bokis


 

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Status: offline 		I´m going to try mine without modifications,it seem to me that if You start adding weight to the tail section you have to add 4 times that into the nose..
I really like how light it is compared to a normal balsa built model and I might be wrong but adding weight will be adding stress to the fuselage..
I dont intend to fly 3D with it and trying to secure it from heavy landnings is going to make it heavier ..

//Bokis

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 2:31 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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Status: offline 		Bokis,
I am with you. I have both the B-17 and the Lancaster comming to me when they hit the country. I plan on doing full cockpits for both . Any way The planes were designed to be light. I had a Wellington that I built from scratch and I was trying to build it really light. It had a 132" wingsapn and wieghed in at about 33lbs ready to fly. The fuses sides all the way back were only 1/8" balsa with balsa bulkheads every 4 " or so. It was not a sheeted box and once I got it together It just looked to light to hold up. I did add a couple diagonal balsa stringers whicjh I may try to do here. They really don't add much weight just anti twist strenght to the fuse. Anyway I flew the Wellington for 2 years both with Gas motor and electric setup. I never had problem one. These things arn't designed to withstand a crash which we usually try to do when building from scratch..Mine is going to be all electric also...

Ty

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 2:37 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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Ty

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 3:05 AM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: bokis

I´m going to try mine without modifications,it seem to me that if You start adding weight to the tail section you have to add 4 times that into the nose..
Bokis



Your quite right sir. Thats the beauty of this fix. It is almost weightless!!

Ok....... I took two flimsy tubes. One represents our good friend Mr. ASM fusalage on the outside. The other is a temporary mould covered in a plastic bag. I used the cheap foam for the experiment. I placed the foam in the space and let it expand. After it cures 24 hours I will weigh the difference. Its almost nothing. Nothing times nothing equals.....Well, nothing. As far as the strength, it has to be at least 20 times stronger and it will remove all of the bending with handleing.

I"ll post back tomorrow for the results.

SR

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 3:36 AM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: fockewulf37
I am with you. I have both the B-17 and the Lancaster comming to me when they hit the country.

But Ty you have a working relationship with the distributors so yes, your getting both. So far it looks like your the only one receiving either. Tomas still has 4 of each in stock. Also, its looking like IF they hit the country again. Another date and another date now passed but I'm sure they will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fockewulf37
These things arn't designed to withstand a crash which we usually try to do when building from scratch.


Thats not only true but also pretty sad. $1950.00 down the drain on the first slight mishaps? Shameful. Is foam the answer?


SR

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 4:39 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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you are right I do alot of work with Tomas but, I do buy the planes that I want for myself. Other I just borrow for a while...

Your fix may work but you do have to be careful. That foam will cause distortion if not allowed enough room to expand. I know from experience. If I were going to use that method I would make a tube with plenty of holes in it . slide it in place and squirt the foam through the holes and allow it to expand inside and even back out the holes. That foam is easy to cut away...If you used a 1/64" ply you could glue it to the inside the formers. so you finished tube is only about a 1/2" thick...

Ty

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 6:18 AM   
smurfjet



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Status: offline 		Hello SpeerRacer,

You speak of what you do not know - with the demise of that Conachen Lancaster.

"QUOTE"
Well, your going to see a lot of this. Your lucky. You have experience with twins. Most of the people who will buy these planes will have none. This will be the result. I found a YouTube of a Lancaster spiraling in to its death. You could here the remaining engines screaming at full power. He had crashed before he took off! The plane told him when it turned 90 degrees left that the left engines were going at a different speed than the right. He took off anyway? Go dead stick, drop the nose, glide to an off field landing. Minor damage vs total loss.
"END QUOTE"

Jeff Quesenberry built that Conachen Lanc and it was piloted by Opie Logue. Between the two of those guys they probably have more multi engine time than you and I have single time put together. They have built and flown twins and 4 engines that were over 200 inch wingspans so they did not just go buy an arf and try to launch it one a nice Sunday. They have both flown almost any kind of multi engine plane you can think of from Lancasters, B-17's, B-24's, Mossy's, P-38's, P-61's etc. all in the 10 foot wingspan plus.......

The plane in question was a maiden flight and more than likely the first flight for that airframe. I do not believe Mr. Conachen ever built and flew the plane before he started selling them. Ty had one way back (did you ever fly her Ty)? and there's another friend of ours down in Oklahoma that is flying one on electric power. The engines (4 zenoah G-26's) were broken in, tuned, and tuned some more. On that day they sounded perfect while we were running them up. The left turn on Takeoff was a combination of Opie not getting on the rudder right away and the fact that the Lancaster's rudder's are really quite small. Once she started going left it was going left......yes he could have aborted T/O but up there we fly at a huge sod farm so no obsticles as you can see. It was making full power on all engines when she lifted off. The rest is history. Too bad because it was a beautiful bird and Jeff put a lot of time into her.

Just wanted to clear up that this was not due to their lack of experience flying Multi's.

Dave

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 7:06 AM   
F4u5



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ORIGINAL: Speedracer2112


Well, your going to see a lot of this. Your lucky. You have experience with twins. Most of the people who will buy these planes will have none. This will be the result. I found a YouTube of a Lancaster spiraling in to its death. You could here the remaining engines screaming at full power. He had crashed before he took off! The plane told him when it turned 90 degrees left that the left engines were going at a different speed than the right. He took off anyway? Go dead stick, drop the nose, glide to an off field landing. Minor damage vs total loss.

SR


Whatever doomoss . You don't know a damn thing about the pilot's experience or the plane itself.

Jeff


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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 9:22 AM   
Quigleywins


 

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Status: offline 		Speedracer2112
I'm right onto what your trying to do. Question if you have a confined space with no where for the foam to go and too much is applied how much damage can it do with the presure build up on the plastic. you could put it on the plastic area and then work on it to enable you to sheet the inside of the formers . Can you tell me the weight of a quibic foot of the expander foam so the maths can be applied to give the added weight. The front is not as big a problem as the bomb bay can be worked on to give more strength. As to the one that I saw go in, it was extra slow.There are no spare parts for this one ,I would think, I could be incorrect. The TF Mitchel is great in that area. When are they being released in the US the time given weeks ago has come and pased. What is the next time given. yours Paul T

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 1:14 PM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: F4u5


Whatever doomoss . You don't know a damn thing about the pilot's experience or the plane itself.

Jeff


Look at the video. It says it all. Not me. So what your saying is all very experienced pilots drive a bird into the ground at full throttle just to make sure there is nothing left? It was the planes fault because it has small rudders? Its normal to see a plane vear 90 degrees before take off? Please gentlemen, I know better. I have crashed a few times. I've never got upset at another person for stating what they thought happened. Everyone does things differently. Im not looking for a fight or to make an enemy here. Sorry about your plane.


quote:

ORIGINAL: F4u5
jeffquesenberry 7 months ago

I was the builder, and the number 4 engine amputated my right index finger on an engine run/sync...OUCH! I believe, the left wing #1 and #2 engines lost power, as heard by a distinct change in engine sound and the "skid out" to the left. Sucks, but that's what makes the hobby fun and challenging. If it were like riding a bike....HOW BORING!!!!! I love the challenge!!

Jeff



These are your quotes on YouTube. Not mine.

SR

< Message edited by Speedracer2112 -- 9/30/2010 1:46 PM >

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RE: ASM Lancaster? - 9/30/2010 1:54 PM   
Speedracer2112



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ORIGINAL: Quigleywins

Speedracer2112
I'm right onto what your trying to do. Question if you have a confined space with no where for the foam to go and too much is applied how much damage can it do with the presure build up on the plastic. you could put it on the plastic area and then work on it to enable you to sheet the inside of the formers . Can you tell me the weight of a quibic foot of the expander foam so the maths can be applied to give the added weight. The front is not as big a problem as the bomb bay can be worked on to give more strength. As to the one that I saw go in, it was extra slow.There are no spare parts for this one ,I would think, I could be incorrect. The TF Mitchel is great in that area. When are they being released in the US the time given weeks ago has come and pased. What is the next time given. yours Paul T

One cubic foot is .8 pounds if it allowed to expand correctly. I wouldnt box it in. It will not expand or dry if you do.

SR

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