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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 8:25 AM   
mauryr


 

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After 6 more months of trouble free operation (quite a few hours of flight on electric and gas planes), last saturday I encountered yet another issue with the link reliability.
This is the setup:
Gas plane with 3 2s batteries - one powers the ignition, one powers the receiver (optima 6) through SPC and an 8A regulator, the third one powers a second 8A regulator. The 2 regulators power up (in parallel with diodes) the servos. The TX is obviously an A9. All servo connectors and SPC are glued into the RX with hot glue so there cant be any loose connection.
I do not know the firmware version of the A6 - it has never been updated and bought in july or august last year, never been in a crashed plane or anything.

The event:
6 or so flights in a row, everything is perfect, no hard landings, very uneventful. (After these flights, batteries were down by about 500 mAh each out of 1500. These batteries are 30A discharge capable, so you could say they were charged well enough).

On the 7th flight I feel a very awkward wing drop during straight flight, but I chalk it up to wind/low airspeed...
Then I do a series of touch and go (5 or 6 I can't remember) then I decide to attempt a different and shorter approach and I touch down on the edge of the runway, one wheel on grass and one on the runway (at proper landing speed, I didn't come in hot). The propeller strikes the runway (reporting minor dents to the extremities) because there isn't enough clearance and the engine obviously quits.

I go pick the plane and bring it back to the pits and only at that point I realize the radio is not working anymore. I take a better look and I see the RX is still on but it's stuck in failsafe...
Wiggling the sticks has no effect whatsoever, and the servos sit in their failsafe position, resetting every now and then as they always do while the RX is on failsafe. I turn the TX off and back on and the link does not get re-established... after showing a friend, I finally reset the receiver by turning it off and on again and only then the link is re-established.

I do not know what caused the rx to go into failsafe, but what I cannot conceive is the RX is ON and simply stuck. At this point I don't even know if the prop strike caused the rx failure or the other way around... what I know for sure is if the engine hadn't quit it would have been fun to catch the plane around the field......

When the RX and the TX are ON, there must be a link, period. I've been loving this radio, so after the crash in october I decided to give it a second chance, but after this it's going on the shelf. Intermittent issues bugs or whatever such as this are just too dangerous to entrust a model to it.







< Message edited by mauryr -- 4/9/2012 12:36 PM >


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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 2:57 PM   
zx32tt


 

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Now that is troubling! What was the rx voltage at the time of the crash?
zx32tt

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 3:23 PM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mauryr

After 6 more months of trouble free operation (quite a few hours of flight on electric and gas planes), last saturday I encountered yet another issue with the link reliability.
This is the setup:
Gas plane with 3 2s batteries - one powers the ignition, one powers the receiver (optima 6) through SPC and an 8A regulator, the third one powers a second 8A regulator. The 2 regulators power up (in parallel with diodes) the servos. The TX is obviously an A9. All servo connectors and SPC are glued into the RX with hot glue so there cant be any loose connection.
I do not know the firmware version of the A6 - it has never been updated and bought in july or august last year, never been in a crashed plane or anything.

The event:
6 or so flights in a row, everything is perfect, no hard landings, very uneventful. (After these flights, batteries were down by about 500 mAh each out of 1500. These batteries are 30A discharge capable, so you could say they were charged well enough).

On the 7th flight I feel a very awkward wing drop during straight flight, but I chalk it up to wind/low airspeed...
Then I do a series of touch and go (5 or 6 I can't remember) then I decide to attempt a different and shorter approach and I touch down on the edge of the runway, one wheel on grass and one on the runway (at proper landing speed, I didn't come in hot). The propeller strikes the runway (reporting minor dents to the extremities) because there isn't enough clearance and the engine obviously quits.

I go pick the plane and bring it back to the pits and only at that point I realize the radio is not working anymore. I take a better look and I see the RX is still on but it's stuck in failsafe...
Wiggling the sticks has no effect whatsoever, and the servos sit in their failsafe position, resetting every now and then as they always do while the RX is on failsafe. I turn the TX off and back on and the link does not get re-established... after showing a friend, I finally reset the receiver by turning it off and on again and only then the link is re-established.

I do not know what caused the rx to go into failsafe, but what I cannot conceive is the RX is ON and simply stuck. At this point I don't even know if the prop strike caused the rx failure or the other way around... what I know for sure is if the engine hadn't quit it would have been fun to catch the plane around the field......

When the RX and the TX are ON, there must be a link, period. I've been loving this radio, so after the crash in october I decided to give it a second chance, but after this it's going on the shelf. Intermittent issues bugs or whatever such as this are just too dangerous to entrust a model to it.







How do you know it was not just a problem with that one receiver? Perhaps the transmitter is fine.



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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 3:35 PM   
zx32tt


 

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Have you done any of the updates?

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 3:41 PM   
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Have you kept your TX, RF module and RXs updated to the latest Hitec software?

I have never had any link problems in two years but Hitec has several updates to improve link reliablity and reconnects.

See their website.
Jim D.


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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 3:50 PM   
Michel


 

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Hi
Extremely interesting report , to say the least . This guy seems like he has all his eggs in the basket , that was a fine report . But , as we all know ,...................... those up-dates are important . And ,........... I believe that it,s the first time in some while that we,ve had an unlinked transceiver .

Michel

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 4:59 PM   
JNorton



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Plus nothing man made is 100% perfect. The report is troubling but I'm still going to go ahead and use mine.
John

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 5:25 PM   
mauryr


 

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Tx/module are fully updated and the receiver, being a 6 channel, has never been updated since I bought it (sometime between july and august last year) so I think the firmware is probably rev 1.04, but that's just a guess.
It is certainly an issue with the rx, because rebooting the tx didn't change anything.
Also, I wouldn't talk about "crash" as it was just a pretty lame prop strike - I am not a pro pilot myself, but at the field you see plenty of those all the time and the pilots usually just put the plane back in the air right away, often times without even replacing the prop.
Finally, the voltage was around 7.8~8.0v (80% charged 2s lipo).

I've also flown many times on an optima 9 receiver with the 1.01 (omg!) firmware - 100% reliable to my experience.

The point I am trying to make here is this: if the rx with the older firmware are not reliable, there should have been a recall of some sort. It is very likely my crash on october 2011 (2,4m turbine jet - locked while flying about 550m away from the tx) was caused by this same issue or something related, as I did not update the receivers on that plane either, in fear of "new version" bugs.

Being a professional programmer myself, I know software needs to "mature" before it can be 100% reliable, but one thing is minor bugs such as telemetry related things or something, another is critical flaws which can get your plane crashed and people hurt. Updates which fix blocking issues such as potential lockouts should be mandatory, while on the optima 6 you can't even do it by yourself without voiding the warranty... Also, jumping to the newest software update right away is not a best practice, it's better to stick to a proven version before updating - one would expect the rx comes out of the shop with a fully proven and reliable sw version. Obviously, this is not the case.

Certainly, I can't ask for a reimbursement for the loss of my bigger plane, but I wish at least to help other people avoid the same fate, hopefully hitec could do something to make everybody understand the importance of installing the latest updates to ALL their receivers  (including 6ch) .





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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 5:44 PM   
Propworn


 

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Which mode are you running normal or scan?

Dennis

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 6:10 PM   
mauryr


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Propworn

Which mode are you running normal or scan?

Dennis

Always ran normal only. Latest firmware doesn't even have the option anymore.

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 8:06 PM   
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The cable on the back is the signal feed to the antenna.   The tranny is set up for use with 72 MHz or 35 MHz by use of a module.  So the antenna can be changed from a short 2.4 GHz to a longer 72 Mhz antenna.


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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 8:11 PM   
madflyermal


 

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Hi,

Thanks A.T. I think this will help, I will try some of the fixes this week.

Mal

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 8:27 PM   
Michel


 

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Hi

Do you know that you have just answered a post that was in the year 2009 .

In other news .

I,m finally getting the voice module , I got news of it , this morning More gadgets , ohhhh boy

mauryr
,..... Thanks a lot for that honest report . And I,m +1 on the point that Hitec could have said , or mentioned , something on the 6 channel receiver , and mostly , the dangers of , " NOT " updating the Optima 6 .

Michel

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 11:05 PM   
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Mike, I got the HTS-Voice module last week and have it working with my A9. I installed a Hitec Blue TM system into 3D Hobby Edge 41 just for a try out to see how it goes. I have current, voltage, rpm and GPS sensors set up on the A9 and the voice thingie. Works good so far on the ground. I have not been able to fly it yet since God has decided that it will blow 130 mph here in NY since late Feb.

The voice thing runs on three AAA batteries and connects to the 2.4 GHz RF module on the back of the A9. This is good as there in no need to bind it each time you fly which you have to do with the NAVI link module that is used to display A/C data on your laptop.

Don't forget to update the HTS-Voice software with the HP-22 and then set it up for the units and alarm levels that you want to use.  You cannot set up the alarms or what is reported at the HTS-Voice unit, only by using the HP-22. 

So far it seems to work fine and I will report back the flight performace as soon as the wind gets down some. 

AMPDRAW Hobby has a great price on the complete Blue TM system with all the sensors including GPS for $170.

If you just want to hear the A/C RX voltage levels, you do not need the TM system as the voice system will report the same voltage levels as displayed on the A9  Rx display.  But you need to update the Voice software to get this function.  It can be downloaded via the HP-22 from Hitec.

Jim D


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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/9/2012 11:32 PM   
Michel


 

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Hi Jim

Well the weather sucks here also , actually the season hasn,t started as of yet , we,er still at around 8 degrees C . And there,s always the winds like you mentioned . Another couple of weeks should do it .

I will most likely get the voice module , late in the week . I have taken the time to study the manual , and downloading . I won,t be useing the electric version , just the glow . Thanks for the heads up on that downloading stuff , jolly good of you .

Michel

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/10/2012 3:31 AM   
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My voice module came in today USPS while I was at work, so I'll go to the Post Office tomorrow aka: THE ZOO, and see which cage my module is in. I'd rather take a beating than go the the frickin' post office. Oh well that's what I get for working....


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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/10/2012 11:36 AM   
Michel


 

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Hi
Sounds like a confession .

Michel

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/10/2012 11:39 AM   
A.T.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mauryr    Always ran normal only. Latest firmware doesn't even have the option anymore.

Always sorry to hear of any incident and after reading the posts, suggest recheck rx power supply and ignition system.
"Gas plane with 3 2s batteries
 - one powers the ignition,
- one powers the receiver (optima 6) through SPC and an 8A regulator,
- the third one powers a second 8A regulator.
The 2 regulators power up (in parallel with diodes) the servos. The TX is obviously an A9. All servo
connectors and SPC are glued into the RX with hot glue so there cant be any loose connection."

Recovery time from ignition interference has been well covered in all major forums and Aurora FAQ page:
"After Market Accessories - Ignition Systems, Leads, Modules & Switches - Cautions."
Optima V2.02 firmware upgrade was issued to provide a faster reboot time, with all 6ch Optima, especially those used with ignition engines, able to be sent in for a free upgrade since Oct'11..
Optima 6, 7 & 9 Ch Transceiver Update V2.02 07Oct11
(•Improved reboot and recovery methods after severe RF interference.) - Requires Module V3.01 and Aurora V1.07+
Always hard to locate actual cause of any lockout/brownout, as given number of previous trouble free flights,
any one small thing like the resister spark plug cap could now be failing or the voltage regulators not holding
stated voltage under load could be now surfacing.

Without  the schematic of your setup, have difficulty visualising the flow of 2 Lipol to SPC & servos
via 2 regulators & diodes.
Power appears sufficient at 8A but what type and how many servo & total peak current draw?  this as
the regulators may  not hold the stated Volts under high current draw with rapid fluctuations which perhaps
could have led to something like a locked out loop with the slower reboot time of firmware prior to V2.02.
  Two previous user posts which may be of interest.
. One Very Close Call  (Others have also reported similar senario)
. Brown Out -  RX Voltage Sag

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

 



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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/10/2012 12:36 PM   
mauryr


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: A.T.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mauryr    Always ran normal only. Latest firmware doesn't even have the option anymore.

Always sorry to hear of any incident and after reading the posts, suggest recheck rx power supply and ignition system.
"Gas plane with 3 2s batteries
 - one powers the ignition,
- one powers the receiver (optima 6) through SPC and an 8A regulator,
- the third one powers a second 8A regulator.
The 2 regulators power up (in parallel with diodes) the servos. The TX is obviously an A9. All servo
connectors and SPC are glued into the RX with hot glue so there cant be any loose connection."

Recovery time from ignition interference has been well covered in all major forums and Aurora FAQ page:
"After Market Accessories - Ignition Systems, Leads, Modules & Switches - Cautions."
Optima V2.02 firmware upgrade was issued to provide a faster reboot time, with all 6ch Optima, especially those used with ignition engines, able to be sent in for a free upgrade since Oct'11..
Optima 6, 7 & 9 Ch Transceiver Update V2.02 07Oct11
(•Improved reboot and recovery methods after severe RF interference.) - Requires Module V3.01 and Aurora V1.07+
Always hard to locate actual cause of any lockout/brownout, as given number of previous trouble free flights,
any one small thing like the resister spark plug cap could now be failing or the voltage regulators not holding
stated voltage under load could be now surfacing.

Without  the schematic of your setup, have difficulty visualising the flow of 2 Lipol to SPC & servos
via 2 regulators & diodes.
Power appears sufficient at 8A but what type and how many servo & total peak current draw?  this as
the regulators may  not hold the stated Volts under high current draw with rapid fluctuations which perhaps
could have led to something like a locked out loop with the slower reboot time of firmware prior to V2.02.
  Two previous user posts which may be of interest.
. One Very Close Call  (Others have also reported similar senario)
. Brown Out -  RX Voltage Sag

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

 




Hi A.T. - thankfully, this time there was no accident whatsoever, since everything happened on the ground.
The connections are as follows:
-each one of the 2 receiver packs (1550 mAh 2s 25C) is connected to one of the regulators.
-the exits of the regulators join through 4 6A diodes (2 per channel in parallel and termically coupled) and go to the servos side of the receiver through 2 Y connections to 2 separated servos, as to keep the current for these 2 servos out of the receiver rails.
-the 5 servos on the moving surfaces don't absorb more than 1A each at full load, so one single regulator is more than enough to power the whole plane (they are 8A constant, 15 peak)
-the receiver is powered through SPC by just one of the receiver packs, through a separated lead running from the battery connector, in parallel with one of the 2 receiver input leads.
-the ignition system is completely separated from the rx, I am currently not even running a kill switch.(dedicated battery runs a 20 cm lead to a dedicated regulator (40 cm away from the rx) which runs another lead to the ignition, on the engine box)

Voltage sagging causing a brown-out in this setup is virtually impossible, since the 2s lipo can't possibly sag low enough for the receiver to notice (receiver is being powered directly, at 7.2+ V).
I don't know what caused the failure to happen, but I am just arguing at the fact that the receiver was, in fact, powered on and simply not bound.

Afterwards, at home, I tried to cause the failure to happen again by simulating the shortest power losses I could and, occasionally, I managed to see very slow bootup times (up to 10 seconds) in which not all servos were responding properly (during the bootup it looks like channels were being inited one by one over a variable time span ranging from a few tenth of a seconds to up to 10s). I did NOT manage to lock it into failsafe though, even though I wasted a good 30 minutes trying.

Please notice I've been flying this same plane with these same connections and this same receiver for almost one year, pretty often, and without any issue whatsoever, and this is what scares me the most, because everything seems perfect, but there's a time bomb ready to blow up somewhere. I did change the batteries 3 months ago (40 or 50 flights ago) so they're fresh but well proven already.







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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/10/2012 7:31 PM   
MikeMayberry



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The problem you experienced is similar to what was reported by others that lead to the development and release of the V2.02 firmware for the RX's which has essentially eliminated these issues. I understand not wanting to update the radio firmware until all the bugs have been worked out as some do, but Module and RX updates are typically essential and should always be done. I would suggest that you only use an RX with V2.02 in a gas powered models... you can send the Optima 6's into your Hitec agent for the update and update the O7's & 9's with the HPP-22 interface yourself.

I'm not a big fan of using the SPC port to power the RX in gas and glow powered models as you lose the ability to monitor what you servo battery/regulator is doing. As long as you have sufficient power for the servos you should be able to power the RX with the same battery. The telemetry is essential to tell you if you have the proper battery/regulator even by moving all control surfaces quickly for a few seconds. Anything more than a 0.5 drop is concerning.

Mike.

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/11/2012 12:20 AM   
Michel


 

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Hi

Hey Mike ,.......................................... Youre alive ,.......................................... I was worried about you .

Thanks for the info Mike

Michel

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/13/2012 2:26 PM   
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Mike, I made my first few flights with the HTS-Voice thingie today on a 3D HOBBIES EDGE 41. Works fine so far for current, volts, rpm, speed and altitude.  One oddball thing to note is that when sitting on the ground the TM reads 0Ft altitude on the A9 display but the voice says something like 1096 feet. Once up and away it reads what seems to be a good altitude.  I suspect this is a minor software detail in the Voice thing.

I did learn today that trying to reach the AMA altitude limit of 400 feet just to get a feel for it is not that easy to get comfortable with as the plane looks pretty small at 300 feet!  75 to 150 is a normal altitude for me it seems.

Now the trick with the Voice thingie is to remember to fly the plane and not just listen to the voice!

The current reading seems pretty accurate. Moto-Calc predicted 32.9 amps with the engine/esc/battery/motor/prop combo I have on the ground and the TM HTS voice thing was reading 33 amps at full throttle on the ground.

When I get a chance I am going to move the TM stuff to my Habu to get a feel for the current, speed and altitude range. I made a little 3" adapter cable with Deans conectors on both ends and the current probe loop around one wire so I could move the current sensor to different planes without having to undsolder the connector on the ESC to slip the current loop over the wire on each plane.

Have fun,
Jim D


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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/13/2012 2:38 PM   
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Jim,

Can you post a pic of your adapter? I was thinking of making one myself.

Andy

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RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/13/2012 3:48 PM   
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From: PATCHOGUE, NY, USA
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Here is a picture of the little current probe battery/esc adapter. On the lower left you see the little black current loop around one wire. The multicolor wires to the upper right are the current probe leads to the Hitec Sensor Blue TM station. The Deans connector to the lower right plugs into the battery. The ESC plugs into the Deans connector that you see at the top. The other red connector is connected across the ESC leads to measure voltage if you want to send that to the sensor station. You don't really need that since the normal Hitec RX voltage telemetry will downlink the RX battery voltage to the HTS-VOICE.  You would use the little connector and the HTS Blue voltage connector to send battery voltage to the sensor station if you wanted to say see your battery voltage from a LIPO directly and also monitor the normal RX from the ESC BEC.

Have fun!
Jim D


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(in reply to AJsToyz)
       Post #: 4324

RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System - 4/14/2012 12:37 PM   
Michel


 

Posts: 1139
Score: 123
Joined: 10/10/2005
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Saint- JEROME, QC, CANADA
Status: offline
Good Morning

Hey Jim ,........... thanks for the evaluation on the voice moduel . I got mine in yesterday . I will be sure to go over youre post when I get the firmwear is installed . I lent out my HP-22 , which I don,t use often . I only need it when I lend it out . Looks and sounds like a fun gadget

Michel

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(in reply to JIMF14D)
       Post #: 4325

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