RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (Full Version)

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gregman50 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/17/2009 3:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chickensticks

Hey guys i got one comin, but i am going to try something of the wall. I am going to put a ys 170 on it. Ok let me have it! Do you think i am crazy? Ys says that the 170 will hover 18 pounds and i think i should be able to hit that mark. I also have a plan to balance it without adding weight. by extending the motor and moving the battery foward. aeroworks told me it should work and they are anxious to hear. I have a great planes ultimate with a ys 170 and it is insane! It hovers at 1/4 throttle and it flies like a foamy. it weighs 14.5 lbs

I would like to see one with a Saito 300 twin if it would fit in the cowl! Talk about insane.



chickensticks -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/17/2009 3:15 PM)

i have one on stand by incase the ys dont work out



jtsails -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/17/2009 3:19 PM)

Gregman,
I briefly considered using a Saito 300 on mine as I had both the ZDZ 60 and the Saito sitting on the shelf. The Saito doesn't make quite as much power and I've always used a smaller prop (although it turns faster) on it. Plus it burns more fuel and that fuel has gotten very expensive, not to mention that I always use an onboard glow starter and it doesn't make smoke as well as a gasser. I think the gasser is a much better fit, I didn't measure but I'm pretty sure that the Saito would not fit inside the cowl.
The weather has prevented much flying lately, but I absolutely love my Ultimate, it's the best flying 50cc size plane that I've ever flown, bar none. It tracks extremely well, hovers and torque rolls are simple, and roll rate is insane.
JT



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/19/2009 12:54 AM)

Yes ,
Maidened today. 1 flight about 4-5 minutes. I need work on tuning the engine. It is extremely rich. I had it running last night what I thought was pretty good. So I put on the cowl for todays Maiden. Our field is known for its Paparazzi. So it couldn't be naked
Anyway I didn't have a lot of power getting off the ground, but it did a nice long realistic roll and lift off. Got it up there and leveled it off. A couple clicks of aileron and quite a few clicks of down. My CG is bang on what the manual says and it took what seemed like a fair amount of down.
Got it flying hands off, Then i just flew it around for a minute or 2 to get the engine to unload a bit. Once the engine wasn't sputtering I pulled it verticle......It climbed and it climbed and it climbed. It got really really tiny.
I can't wait to see how it pulls with the engine tuned properly and broken in. Because it went up without effort running like a dog.
Flew it back down and pulled it verticle again. Away she went, but this time I held a touch of left aileron. It did rolls so axial and straight on the upline I thought it was on a string.
Once i was up there again I coudn't resist throwing it into a tumble and into an inverted flat spin All I could hear behind me from a fellow was "ARE YOU NUTS ?!?!"
Oh yeah, It does them nice and didn't need a lot of control throw.
At that point I had had enough for my first flight with a big plane and gasser. Not to mention 17 guys standing behind me watching
The approach was uneventful, a bit of power and a nice easy sink rate. Cleared the end of the runway at about 10 feet and chopped the power. It started to sink and touched down nicely.....THEN.....It acted as if someone stood on the brakes and the tail went up and it stood right up on the tip of its spinner. Strayed like that for a second and then the tail came back down. It stopped and stayed on its nose and the main wheels.
We were all wondering what had happened. When I walked out to it I noticed one of the axles had snapped and the wheel had twisted sideways inside the wheel pant. Explains the braking effect.
The best I can figure is I over tightened the nut on the axle during assembly and either stripped it or damaged it in some way. Bummer.
Packed everything up and headed off to a hobby shop to buy a new axle. Its all repaired now and ready to go again. A shame really, It was a beautiful day and I could only get in 1 short flight. Oh well....
This time I don't care about the cowl. I have removed it for the next few flights so I can access the needles and try to get her tuned up a bit.



jonesjj3 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/19/2009 1:18 AM)

BIG Congrats on your maiden Bdegan, sorry to hear of the brake effect you had but sounds like you have it worked out.
Sounds like a real nice ship, I am wondering if a 3W 75 @ 5.25 lbs may work in this or if it may be to heavy.
with this eng a 2 blade prop may be to big but I want to maybe do a 3blade and that would be real sharp I think.





Grelker -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/19/2009 5:48 AM)

Bdegen, thanks for the comprehensive report, can't wait to hear about flight #2. I went back in the posts to see what engine you had, but didn't see it. can you refresh our memories?



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/19/2009 6:55 AM)

MT-57

I still have to get it tuned and broken in



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/29/2009 11:58 PM)

Got in 6 flights today :D
It gets better and better. The motor is running better all the time. I have burned just a little more than a gallon now. The midrange is burbly still, want to wait a bit more before I start to tune that out. The high end is getting better the transition is good even though its really rich.

Now enough about the engine. On to the flight reports :checkmark:

It flies really nice. Rolls are crisp, they start and stop instantly. And on higher rates are a blur.
We had a nice steady 20k wind from the south today so I tried some harriers and elevators.
Literally no wing rock in a harrier or an elevator. Slow it down into the wind and full up. It literally sank straight down without rocking. A couple clicks above idle and I could steer it back and forth in the wind withjust the rudder, no aileron correction. I tried a couple of waterfalls. It flips the tail over the top with ease but wants to roll left as it comes over. I need another day to get used to this plane and keeping the wings level to fall back into an inverted elevator.
Knife edge is nice. With about 3/4 throttle it knife edges with very little rudder input needed. It has a hint of tucking to the gear when it is in a left rudder knife edge. I think a 5% rudder-elevator mix should just about take care of it. You barely have to hold any aileron. This thing will do knifedge circles all day.
I tried some low speed knifedges. Even at lower speeds, not alot of rudder is required. But it does take some work on the elevator and ailerons to hold it as it want to roll out at lower speeds.
Landings are a breeze. Like any other Bipe it has a fairly high sink rate. Fly it all the way in with a bit of power and it will grease in every time.
The only downside if you fly off grass is the rear swept landing gear. If your field is rough it is sensitive to nosing over as the tail wheel bracket is quite springy and bounces. Take offs and landings are not an issue. Its the taxiing where it gets tippy. A straight gear like the Pitts has might be better for grass fields. I have to taxi nice and easy with between high rate and full 3D throw on the elevator.
I can't wait until I get a few more gallons through it and get the motor running nice and crisp.

Almost forgot...Hovers. Oh my god......
Pull it into a hover and it locks in instantly. Very little rudder and elevator corrections to hold a nice steady hover. I even did my first 2 rotation torque roll today. Actually it was my first torque roll period. I would always fall out before the first rotation completed with my other planes.

For those wondering about the weight. at 19.5 lbs it was hovering in the burbly midrange and would pull out strong and steady with unlimited verticle. Not rocket pull out like we see on some videos. But I am happy so far. And it will only get better as I burn more fuel and switch to a higher ratio fuel mix later on.



jonesjj3 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (4/30/2009 2:24 AM)

Great Flight Report, sounds like this is going to be on nice ship on that MT 57 Thanks for getting back to us. I will be hopfully picking mine up from Chief at the Joe Nall in a few weeks.

Still like that color?



ggroyal1 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (5/3/2009 1:33 AM)

Hey Bdegan,
Congradulations and thanks for the excellent report. I changed my axles to titanium made by MPI. One week away from maiden flight.

Thanks,

George G. Royal



ggroyal1 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (5/7/2009 1:29 AM)

I am almost finished, just need to tweak a couple of things and wait for the weather to clear. Here is a pic of the ignition set up. The green led is the GEM2000 battery monitor (7.4v LiIon), the red led on the left is the SmartFly optic ign. cutoff switch, and the led on the right shows the status of the ICU(Evolution 58).



spock5643 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (5/15/2009 7:27 PM)

ggroyal1,

What number do you have? I have #29 as written on the outside of the box. I have the plane finished an maiden and like bdgen I can say this is going to be a sweet flyer. I am doing a complete review of this from box to air and it will be up here by Tuesday of next week. Stay tuned as I will start a totally new thread as I do not want to highjack this one.

-Rick



chickensticks -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (5/15/2009 11:10 PM)

Hey fellow ultimate brothers! I have my ultimate done! It has the ys 170 on it! Ok! It weighs................16Lbs1oz! I CANT WAIT![:D]



GiMsAcE -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (5/18/2009 10:05 AM)

Hi Sticks,

We will be eagerlly waiting as how the test flight went..!!,please let us know..!!.

Awesome..!!16 pounds looks like a manageable weight for the YS170DZ too fly it.

I`am a YS lover too i fly pattern and i`am looking for my first gas IMAC-3D plane and i think the 100cc Ultimate will be great..!!.

Regards.



spock5643 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (5/18/2009 4:49 PM)

This thing is a kite at 18.8 so at 16 pounds might have to add air brakes to get it to land [:D]



Ferocious Frankie -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (6/16/2009 2:53 AM)

Hey guys,

It looks everyone is enjoying their ultimates. I'm between this one and the Extra 300. Anything to add about the plane? It sounds like the only problem everyone has had with it is the elevator tube being a little long. Anyone know if AW has corrected this?

Thanks!



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (6/16/2009 3:40 AM)

Hey Frankie,
I have not heard anything being mentioned about the tail tubes being corrected or if it was just an annomolie.  BUT......
The plane is awesome. I have logged over 30 flights on mine now and well into my 3rd gallon. I am now starting to tune out the midrange burble. This plane flies so predictably its not even funny. Snaps are a thing of beauty. They are fast and stop instantly. I am almost down to Snapasaurus territory because it is so predictable. It is also the easiest plane I have every landed because the sink rate is so constant and consistent. Even if it gets hit with a head on gust of wind it doesn't balloon up. I fly it in with power until 12 inches off the ground. chop the throttle and it slows down and flairs for perfect 3 pointers everytime.

That being said, I am sure the 300 flies just as nice. It all comes down to wether you want 1 wing or 2. Assembly at the field takes a couple of extra minutes. But I don't mind. I'm a sucker for Ultimates.

I hope to have some video taken on the 28th. Our club is doing its first of what we hope to be an anual airshow. Local papers are coming out, some media. We are working on the mayor right now.
I plan to have my smoke system running for the airshow as well. If I can fly it half descently infront of an audience and get video. I will post it.



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/14/2009 7:24 AM)

Well i thought this thread needed to be woken up [:D]
It has been so quiet I gues everyone is out flying their Ultimates with No issues.
I pulled the slimline wrap around pitts muffler off today and put the stock muffler on.
I gained 340 rpm. This evening I was taching 6850 with a Xoar 23x8. Dead calm air, 27 degrees C and 80% humidity. Fuel/oil is at 40:1.
The low end is still a bit rich, which I am slowly working out. I had a minor set back when my crank case cracked. But I got a whole new bottom end under warranty [;)]
I also pulled out my choke servo and smoke system. Between the muffler weight difference and the smoke system, I shed a total of 1 lb 4.6 ozs of weight
The Ultimate does not fly like the same plane at all . Not that it flew bad, it didn't. But it flew noticably lighter.
Hovering was very easy at half to just under half stick. Pull out was strong and actually acelerated going up
I am much happier.
The plane is just a dream to fly.



Grelker -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/14/2009 7:00 PM)

I finished mine about 2 months ago and have just finished 2 gals of breakin fuel. I'm now on 80:1 amsoil. All the reports about a great flyer are true! I had to add a little right thrust to mine with a mezjlic 22x8 prop to correct serious left pull on uplines. When I added a grade 8 washer, about 1/16 inch thick, then i needed additional downthrust as well, added one washer. This has corrected the upline. Still using the pitts muffler although i had some issues with keeping the stabilizing bracket attached to the muffler (check out this link: Troy Built. I started out with a 4-40 bolt and that would last less than 1 flight, even with loctite red. I ended up with 2, 6-32 bolts, and that seems to work well. The cowl seems to lack much clearance on the top between it and the engine mounting bolt ears. I added a little foam tape to cushion it, anyone else have this problem?

bdegan - thanks for the wakeup call... btw, my AUW is 18#-6oz. I have all the vertical i need, it'll go up until i can't see it anymore



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/14/2009 7:53 PM)

I was at 19 lbs 6 ozs with everything in it. So now I am just a hair over 18 lbs.
I am at about 5 and a half gallons and still trying to get the low end leaned a bit more. The burbly midrange is right where I need to be to hover. So I have to play with the throttle a lot. It either revs just above that point and starts to climb or burbles and starts a tail slide.
But it sure looks good hanging there [:D]



ggroyal1 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/14/2009 8:43 PM)

Do you have any videos or know where some are located. I have looked on youtube. It looks like this is the weekend for my Ultimate with the Evolution 58 engine and a Xoar 24x8 prop. I have not weighted it, but the engine added an extra pound. The CG came out perfect, did not have to move anything. This is the longest I have had a plane before it flys, but we have had a lot of 15 to 20mph winds or much needed rain. If everything goes good this weekend, I will post a video. I am glad to see the good results you guys are having , thanks for the posts.




Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/14/2009 9:22 PM)

HI George,
A fellow club member had some video. But the day he took it was rainy and very grey. His camera had a hard time to focus.
So the video was pretty much worthless.
I had my receiver batteries located in the same place you have yours. But once I pulled my choke servo and the smoke system, I moved them as far forward inside the fuselage as they would go. My CG is at the furthest back of the range. I had to add a couple of clicks of down elevator for level flight from what I had before. It still flew very stable. It didn't have any bad tail heavy tendancies at all. But it didn't need as much stick input for a rolling circle or knifeedge as before. There is slightly more coupling in knifeedge than I had before, but it was easily controlled manually without any mix programming.

As for wind.....Don't worry about it. This plane handles the wind without effort. Landings are still quite easy. It doesn't have the ballooning tendancy some other planes have in a strong head wind.
This plane also handles cross winds pretty good to. Just crab it in until just over the runway and push the tail over at the last second before touch down.

The only place to be careful if you are flying off grass on a windy day is when you taxi back with the wind at your tail. If you have too much up elevator it will nose over. On those taxi's i don't use any up elevator.

I had originally said i had to use a lot of up elevator for taxi. I figured out that applying to much up elevator on nicer days causes the tail to be really bouncy. The prop wash pushes the tail down pretty hard and any bump causes it to spring up pretty hard. Now I use just a hint of up elevator. From the flight line you can hardly notice I have any up elevator at all.

The last thing I can say is it likes to land with a bit of speed. Don't get to slow or you it will flop down on the runway on you.

Have a good maiden [8D] I hope to get back out again tomorrow.



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/17/2009 5:40 PM)

Here a couple of photos from Saturday afternoon. The other plane is my buddies Aeroworks 85cc Yak with a ZDZsuper80.

Also for George, a video from Saturday [;)]
Quality is [:'(] My camera man that day is a professional "still" photographer......But videos??.....Not so much [:@][:D]

http://www.vimeo.com/6142167



ggroyal1 -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/17/2009 6:42 PM)

Hi Brad,

That was great, that is is the first video I have seen besides the AW one. Did not get to maiden the ultimate this past weekend, the weather turned nasty Saturday.

Thanks,

George



Bdegan -> RE: AW Ultimate 20-300 (8/17/2009 7:05 PM)

The past few days have been really hot and humid here.
Yesterday, so much that my engine wouldn't run very well in the low end.



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