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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 3:00:48 AM   
aeajr



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There is a lot to be said for having what other members of the club have. On the other hand, someone had to be first and why not you.

A lot depends on how willing you are to go it alone. How willing are you to dig into the manual and learn how to do things yourself.

There is no substitute for understanding the principals of flight and mixing and such. The members of your club are your best advisors. However, figuring out how to do it on your own might be a lot of fun. In addition it gives you the chance to be the leader in this one area, if you like to take that leadership position.

In the end, most 4 channel radios should be able to fly most 4 channel planes. And enough pilot skill can handle coordination of turns and such. What the computer radio does is take the load off the pilot during the flight and shifts it to the planning before the flight.

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Ed Anderson
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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 3:04:41 AM   
Montague



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The BIG reason to find out what the instructors are using is trainer cord compatibilty.

JR and Futaba trainer cords do NOT talk to each other. I have no idea about Airtronics. I've heard that Hitech talks to Futaba most of the time. (maybe some issues with which one is the instrutor and which is the student box, but I'm not sure).


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Kirk Montague Adams
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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 3:12:51 AM   
JohnBuckner



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kirk in the case of Hitec and Futaba buddy boxing they will work fine 'if' only the hitec directional cord is used. Either Tx can be used as master it only matters that the Master end of the cord is plugged into the master tx. I have used quite a few of these various combinations.

John

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"Keep your controllines tight"

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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 3:57:29 AM   
aeajr



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Had not thought of the buddy box since I am self taught. Have never used a buddy box.

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Ed Anderson
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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 7:04:36 AM   
JohnBuckner



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A decision AEAJR that at some point in time you may come to regret a bit as you move up that ladder in aircraft complexity from the simple park flyers you are flying now.

John

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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 7:45:29 AM   
glowplug



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Thanks Montague, that was the point I was getting at

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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 8:50:28 AM   
aeajr



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Interesting insight. Could you elaborate? How is being self taught and having never used a buddy box going to hurt me in the future.

I fly with complete confidence now, make smooth landings and approach each new flight with complete confidence. I can bring the plane down dead stick from 200 feet with no problem. Actually dead stick is my standard way of landing.

So how will I be hurt in the future.

I am not offended, I am totally curious.

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Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
Ed Anderson
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Park Pilot Program Partner

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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 10:31:43 AM   
JohnBuckner



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OK fair enough, You have taught yourself to fly a simple airplane that flys at perhaps fifteen miles per hour, is controlled around two axis plus a throttle and flown very close in.

It is a huge step from there to a conventional trainer that is going to fly at least three times as fast at least three times further away because of that speed with the need for considerably refined orientation skills. This aircraft is going to need to be controlled around all three axis and there will be a change in the various levers that provide that control depending on your radio.

Now I commend you for success with your first steps However when someone brags about 'having been 'self taught' at that level on these forums and in somes cases implying you are better off going it alone, then this is doing a real disservice to us all. There was even one increditable thread recently when a gentleman went for it alone and of course crashed in under thirty seconds then went on to imply everybody should do it on their own!!

I fly at a municipal field of a small town and there are no clubs involved to speak of. Anybody can fly and on an almost daily basis folks show up with either entirely inappropriate airplanes or may have an adaquate trainer but refuse all help which is always offered in a pleasant way. When this happens all we can do is take cover. These folks are usually lost to the sport forever. This is a probable result of the influence you can have when you bragg about being 'self taught'.

So is it impossible to teach yourself? No of course not, Many of us have done just that simply because there was no other way and not only that we had to do it all over agine many times as technology changed entirely the way we flew our airplanes.

Is it a good idea it imply that its better to teach yourself? Absolutly not and it will do an awfull lot of folks a real disservice.

All of the above is just my opinion however I do stand by it.

John

< Message edited by JohnBuckner -- Jun 20 2003 5:49AM >


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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 11:46:50 AM   
max911



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Hi.
Get ARF and go to the field
Once u get into building u won't find the time for flying
I was busy building my 2nd plane, my Royal Corsair is almost done and i still dont have any idea how to fly my trainer Ive never been out with it .
I guess i have to find some1 to make that maiden flight....

Good luck

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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 5:31:32 PM   
aeajr



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnBuckner
OK fair enough, You have taught yourself to fly a simple airplane that flys at perhaps fifteen miles per hour, is controlled around two axis plus a throttle and flown very close in.

It is a huge step from there to a conventional trainer that is going to fly at least three times as fast at least three times further away because of that speed with the need for considerably refined orientation skills. This aircraft is going to need to be controlled around all three axis and there will be a change in the various levers that provide that control depending on your radio.

Now I commend you for success with your first steps However when someone brags about 'having been 'self taught' at that level on these forums and in somes cases implying you are better off going it alone, then this is doing a real disservice to us all. There was even one increditable thread recently when a gentleman went for it alone and of course crashed in under thirty seconds then went on to imply everybody should do it on their own!!

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your clarification.

I am not bragging I am self taught. That was simply a statement of fact so that my skill, or lack there of, is not based on the guiding hand of an instructor. By no means do I suggest that this is the best route. It just happened to my my path.

Crash? Oh boy did I crash. Unsafe? Well if I were flying in a small busy field, learning on my own might have been a very bad idea as it would have represented a safety issue for those around. But that is not my situation at all.

Our field is an 1800 by 900 open grass field. Most of my "training time" was spent on the field alone. Here is a shot of the field:
http://www.lisf.org/Pictures/29070035.jpg

Today my Aerobird spends most of its time at about 200-300 feet up and it is not unusual for me to have the plane 1,500+ feet out. The transmitter range is about 2,500 feet, so I am still within safe distance for the transmitter.

I did set up a low speed pylon course a few weeks ago to see how I could handle it. It was fun and quite challenging. I would not consider myself a pylon racer, but as long as the wind stayed under 7 MPH, I could stay on the course OK.

My flights are smooth and even and I spend most of my time at about half throttle as it gives me solid 12 minute flights. Today I fly in 10-15 MPH winds without a problem.

My loops are still a little uneven and I am working on tail slides and chantell turns.

This particular 3 channel plane is extreamly easy to fly. We have 2 pilots in our club who have had little to no success flying either through trianing or on their own. They are both successfully flying this plane. It is just a real easy to fly 3 channel electric that can stand up to a lot of punnishment. One guy has been trying for 8 years and has never had a successful flight of more than a minute. Today, with a little guidance from myself and others, he is doing loops.

I will point out that we have no runway, so most of our launches are hand toss. Landings are slides into the grass and with a field that big, you can land pretty much anywhere so we have not had to master runway skills. Some probably never will unless we go out of our way to do so, which I plan to do.

I think buddy boxes are great and applaud those who take the time to train others. I hope to do that myself some day and if I do, a buddy box will be a great aid.

My next plane is the Electrajet which is a delta wing type elevon plane. Again I will work on that on my own. I have hand launched and landed other electric planes without trouble.

After the Electrajet, I go to a pure glider.

So, while being self taught is not for everyone, and certainly can not be accomplished at just any field, it can be done.

If I were to come to your field, which sounds like a small crowded runway based place, I would want to go on a buddy box for my first few flights, so that I did not represent a safety issue to others.

With the right plane, and some patience and common sense, you can be successful on your own. But I would definately recommend instruction to anyone who has it available.

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Ed Anderson
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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 6:13:10 PM   
Crashem


 

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JohnBuckner,

That was one of the best replies to the "self" taught school of thought that keep cropping up. Your post should be included in a sticky note at the top of this forum.

Getting people to understand the the differences between a park/slow flyer and a "traditional" glow powered plane can be difficult at times.

AJEAR,

Landing "on the runway" is one of the most important skills that one needs to develop. It sounds like you are already well on your way to learning "bad" habits by simply landing anywhere on the field. If you don't have a "runway" at your field try putting out some cones and practice spot landing the plane. Being able to consistantly land your plane on a spot of your own choosing is extrememly important.

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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 6:59:02 PM   
aeajr



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crashem
JohnBuckner,

That was one of the best replies to the "self" taught school of thought that keep cropping up. Your post should be included in a sticky note at the top of this forum.

Getting people to understand the the differences between a park/slow flier and a "traditional" glow powered plane can be difficult at times.

AJEAR,

Landing "on the runway" is one of the most important skills that one needs to develop. It sounds like you are already well on your way to learning "bad" habits by simply landing anywhere on the field. If you don't have a "runway" at your field try putting out some cones and practice spot landing the plane. Being able to consistently land your plane on a spot of your own choosing is extremely important.
[/QUOTE]

I would agree that landing on the runway is a very important skill, if you have a runway to land on. You will get no argument from me. No question about it. But it is only one of many important skills.

Actually the cone idea is similar to what I have been doing. I appreciate your confirmation of my approach.

A large number of the pilots in our club are glider pilots who compete based on time in the air and how close they can land the plane to a specific target. So, while there is no runway to lane on, there is definitely a precision landing element to what we do on this field. We are simply not restricted by space the way most fields are.

As for glo planes, not interested. Pretty presumptuous of you to think that I would ever be looking to fly a glo based plane. Why bother? Electrics are clean, quiet, reliable, virtually maintenance free and do not suffer deterioration based on fuel leakage. The idea that all pilots must fly glo is long past. I can fly electrics that can break 100 MPH, perform full 3D routines, execute all the patterns in the book, or run pylons all day long. Why go to glo? My flight control electronics don't have to be padded and I can mount them anywhere they best fit and balance the plane.

The flying principals are exactly the same. And while weight and power are different, they simply give the glo pilot the ability to power through the air and wind that the pilot of a lighter plane can not do. I have had at least two glo pilots tell me that my plane could not be flown in more than 5 MPH winds. Of course what they ment was that they would not have the skill to do it. However I do.

Flying a 16 ounce, lightly powered plane in 15 MPH winds is more challenging and requires a much finer precision than a bigger, more powerful plane would require. If you look at power to weight ratios, I think you will see that parkflyers are probably closer to full scale planes than your average glo plane. But that is irrelevant as this is a hobby, not a recreation of flying full scale planes.

There is a lot of learning around glo that is simply not needed when flying electrics. We focus on flying rather than fuel and tuning engines. We fly on the wing, not on the prop.

Electrics are where the hobby is going and, from what I have seen, they are easier to fly. Perhaps that is why electrics are the fastest growing segment of RC flying. We don't have to spend hours tuning the engine and dealing with engine stalls in the air. This allows us to focus our attention on flying rather than engine care.

Glo will always be there, but it will be a diminishing part of the sport. Over time the noise and smell will push the glo planes further into the boonies. The electrics will continue to grow and the ease with which they can be flown will become the standard.

It is funny, the glider pilots have the same attitude. If you aren't stick building gliders then you are not really flying. How ridiculous.

Enjoy your glo planes. Instruct your students and be proud of what you do. You should be.

But stop looking down your nose at people who have taken a different path and who can be successful doing it. We are not a threat to you. And, should I wish to fly at a field that has a runway and tight airspace, I will definitely seek an instructor. In fact there is one near by that I plan to seek certification on just to say I did it. I will help me develop and fine tune another set of skills.

Of course I will want an instructor, for safety reasons. At least until I have demonstrated that I have the ability to take-off and land on the runway safely and consistantly. I will work on the rest till then.

This thread started out about flying and had turned into a turf war about training methods. I don't understand why. There are many paths to success. Alot depends on the student.

Thanks for the tips on skills and training. I will try to put them to good use.

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Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
Ed Anderson
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Another Newbie! - 6/20/2003 8:01:56 PM   
Crashem


 

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AEAJR,

You are 100% correct I should have been more precise and included High performance electrics in addition to glow power. However my comparison was between parkflyers/slow flyers and more traditional planes. Learning to fly these may not provide the skills to transition to higher performance planes (glow or electric) and getting people to understand that is what I was referring to. You seem to be a case in point. Have you tried a plane that can fly 3 times as fast or as far as your Aerobird?
I'm not looking down my nose at your nor am I threatened by your accomplishments. I simply am of the opinion that while one can learn on there own in most cases its unnecessary and can even be counter productive.

I've done a lot of reading on ezone in regards to parkflyers and own some myself. While I do not consider myself to be an authority my experience since I fly both types is that being able to fly a Aerobird Tiger Moth or other small plane even in a 15 MPH wind Does NOT necessarily mean one has acquired the skills necessary to fly a higher performance plane in no wind.

As far as your statement about the future of electrics.... Well your guess is as good as mine.


[QUOTE]I can fly electrics that can break 100 MPH, perform full 3D routines, execute all the patterns in the book, or run pylons all day long. Why go to glo? My flight control electronics don't have to be padded and I can mount them anywhere they best fit and balance the plane. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]We fly on the wing, not on the prop. [/QUOTE]

If you're flying 3D then you are flying on the prop not the wing


Simple definition of 3D. Maneuvers performed with wing in a stalled condition.

(in reply to Swager)
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