RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51
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RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/20/2004 2:13:51 PM

SpudRacer

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/15/2004
From: Bryson City, NC, NC, USA
Status: offline

I have a Saito 200Ti sitting in my basement next to my 1.50 Mustang that I am hoping to install within the next 3-4 weeks. Why would it have less power than the Saito 180?? This doesn't make sense to me. I decided to go with the 200Ti for MORE power, not for the looks or sound. Since it is a cowled engine, and I'm using an on-board glow system, few people will actually see the engine anyway.

Should I opt for the 180? Does anyone feel that the 200Ti has MORE power? I have read that the power increases as the engine breaks in.

Tom

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 501

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/20/2004 10:07:27 PM

Build-n-flyer-RCU

Posts: 1049
Joined: 9/26/2002
From: Evans, GA, USA
Status: offline

Saito states that power of the 200Ti is comparable to the 180. I think that this is probably a little wishful thinking. But I've never owned a 180, nor have a seen a H9 150 P-51 with a 180 in it, so I have nothing to compare against.

My understanding is that multi-cylinders do not have the same power as a single of the same size.

In case you missed it in my earlier post, here is a link to a site that has a video of my 'Stang flying with the 200Ti. Just scroll down the list until you find it. http://www.rcsites.net/psk560/

As you can see, it flies the plane just fine. I just wish it had more reserve power.

Walt

_____________________________

VQ P-61, H9 150 P-51, D-F Decathalon, NEA Twin Air, Duellist, Nobler, GP 60 Extra, Arrow racer, LT-40.. the hanger is full!!

(in reply to SpudRacer)

Post #: 502

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/20/2004 11:38:45 PM

SpudRacer

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/15/2004
From: Bryson City, NC, NC, USA
Status: offline

Walt,

If I had a dollar for every time I have viewed your video, I might be able to afford a REAL P-51D. Seriously, I have watched it many times, and my wife has patiently watched it as well. I love the sound of the twin. I am not looking for a monster motor that will allow the plane to do more than it's original predecessor, but do not want a weak motor that does all it can just to keep the plane in the air.

I "may" be receiving a trainer (suggested above) for Christmas if my wife got my clue. I told her it was a financially smart move. I hope she agreed.

I can't wait to eventually move up to a turbine jet!!! Maybe in a year or two.

Tom

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 503

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 12:01:23 AM

Bill Yonescu

Posts: 310
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL, USA
Status: offline

I have the Saito 200Ti waiting to go in it and have done some break in and various prop tests. I also have the Saito 180 ( for a different plane) but the only prop I tested on both engines is a MA Classic 18x6.

Saito 200Ti - 8400 RPM - 15 lbs 6 oz static thrust (w/o 5" spinner)
Saito 180 - 8800 RPM - 18 lbs static thrust (w/o 5" spinner)

both on 15% Cool Power

I'm going to use the MA Classic 16x10 for my mustang - it got 8700 RPM - 12 lbs 6 oz static thrust (with 5" spinner which reduces some of the thrust). (I think the prop is stalling) If I want more power I might try 30% helli

My 200Ti broke in very easily. A nice surprise. Didn't loose a cylinder ever. This is in contrast to my Saito 170R3 that took quite a while before it idled properly. I didn't use on-board on the 170R3 and don't plan on using it on the Mustang.

My Mustang is still in the Box waiting for me to start putting it together. Soon!

Bill

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 504

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 12:56:21 AM

Build-n-flyer-RCU

Posts: 1049
Joined: 9/26/2002
From: Evans, GA, USA
Status: offline

Bill,

My 200Ti consistently dropped a cylinder without glow for the first gallon or so. Other than that, the RPM numbers that you are getting are right-on with my experience. I actually tried to fly it (maiden) with the 18x6 and it was very scary. No power and no speed. BAD combination on a Mustang.

The 16x10 seems to unload once the plane is flying and that gets the engine into the power band. And the plane flies much more nicely with a little speed behind it.

I switched from Cool Power 4-stroke fuel to 15% Omega and this seemed to help. Lately I've been using 30% heli. I can't tell too much of a difference between the Omega and heli fuel so I may go back to Omega.

I haven't had a tach on the engine for a while but now that the engine is fully broken in I would bet I am getting around 9000 RPM static with the 16x10.

I've been thinking about trying a 17x8 again to see what happens.

Its good to hear from someone else with experience with the 200Ti. I've felt like I've been alone on a desert island for the past 9 months!

Walt

_____________________________

VQ P-61, H9 150 P-51, D-F Decathalon, NEA Twin Air, Duellist, Nobler, GP 60 Extra, Arrow racer, LT-40.. the hanger is full!!

(in reply to Bill Yonescu)

Post #: 505

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 1:15:30 AM

Build-n-flyer-RCU

Posts: 1049
Joined: 9/26/2002
From: Evans, GA, USA
Status: offline

I posted my 200Ti RPMs for various props on the tach reading forum earlier this year: 200Ti Tach Reading Thread

Bill, and others, please add your tach numbers to the thread. And I'll update my numbers now that my engine is broken in. Maybe we can start building up a knowledge base!

Walt

_____________________________

VQ P-61, H9 150 P-51, D-F Decathalon, NEA Twin Air, Duellist, Nobler, GP 60 Extra, Arrow racer, LT-40.. the hanger is full!!

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 506

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 5:29:03 AM

twist

Posts: 17
Joined: 5/21/2004
From: Utica, NY, USA
Status: offline

Im building one of these now and putting a supertigre g-3250 in for power.....just wondering if anyone else has the same combo?
Ballance and power?? thx!!

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 507

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 5:31:27 PM

hdkeney

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/7/2002
From: Lanett, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Build-n-flyer-RCU

In case you missed it in my earlier post, here is a link to a site that has a video of my 'Stang flying with the 200Ti. Just scroll down the list until you find it. http://www.rcsites.net/psk560/

Walt

Beautiful landing Walt - Howard

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 508

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 8:48:37 PM

Bill Yonescu

Posts: 310
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL, USA
Status: offline

Hi Walt,

I posted some tach numbers for the SAito 200 TI

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1939151/anchors_2455294/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#

Bill

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 509

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/21/2004 9:38:29 PM

Build-n-flyer-RCU

Posts: 1049
Joined: 9/26/2002
From: Evans, GA, USA
Status: offline

hdkeney- I'm glad I don't have any video of my earlier landings, before I got the plane trimmed and balanced right.

Bill- I looked at your numbers and they all make sense to me. You must have one heck of a collection of props! I think that the "ground" thrust readings are a bit misleading in this case. The smaller diameter, higher-pitched props "unload" in the air and you can really hear the RPMs go up when the plane is flying. This seems to make a big difference in performance.

Walt

_____________________________

VQ P-61, H9 150 P-51, D-F Decathalon, NEA Twin Air, Duellist, Nobler, GP 60 Extra, Arrow racer, LT-40.. the hanger is full!!

(in reply to Bill Yonescu)

Post #: 510

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/31/2004 1:04:56 AM

SpudRacer

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/15/2004
From: Bryson City, NC, NC, USA
Status: offline

OK, I need some help. I just finished installing the flap servos and testing them with my JR PCM10X radio. I have one side all set up, but when I try to adjust the linkage for the other side, I'm finding that the servo is working backwards. I've ordered a couple y-cables from Tower Hobby to run both flaps on a single channel, and the ailerons on a single channel, but is this going to fix the problem or do I have to wire up my own y-cable so both servos work in the same direction? Advise from the pros here is appreciated.

I'll be starting the landing gear soon, and I hope you're all happy to know that my wife did get me a Hobbico Nexstar trainer, and I'm so glad I listened to you guys. It comes with a computer program and I found I really stink at landings. I can fly a real plane easier than trying to do it from a spot on the ground. I can take off fine, and if I pilot carefully, I have no problem flying either, but landing with the plane flying towards me is so difficult to learn. Any pointers?

Thanks again guys, and my P-51 thanks you too!

Tom

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 511

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/31/2004 2:25:19 AM

Veltro

Posts: 234
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline

A standard Y harness works fine for the ailerons, but I had to slave the second flap servo on a separate channel to get the flaps to work properly.

(in reply to SpudRacer)

Post #: 512

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/31/2004 3:46:46 AM

Build-n-flyer-RCU

Posts: 1049
Joined: 9/26/2002
From: Evans, GA, USA
Status: offline

You will find that you have the same problem with the elevator halves (assuming that you are running them on separate servos). There are a few ways of dealing with this. You can get reverse-acting servos, or you can use a reversing Y-cable, or you can run the servos on separate channels.

The best way is to run the servos on separate channels and slave them together in the radio program. A reversing Y-cable is a simple solution but these can be a bit troublesome to keep adjusted. JR lists lots of reverse acting servos but I have never tried one.

As for landing.. Good news: once you get used to flying the trainer you will probably find that landing it in real life is actually easier than the computer program. Bad news: you will probably find that landing the P-51 is quite a bit harder than the program. Practice, practice!!!

Walt

_____________________________

VQ P-61, H9 150 P-51, D-F Decathalon, NEA Twin Air, Duellist, Nobler, GP 60 Extra, Arrow racer, LT-40.. the hanger is full!!

(in reply to Veltro)

Post #: 513

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/31/2004 4:53:35 PM

SpudRacer

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/15/2004
From: Bryson City, NC, NC, USA
Status: offline

THanks for the tip on a standard y-cable working for the ailerons. As for the elevators, I am planning to use only 1 servo for both elevators. I'll be going with a JR DS8411 for the elevators and for the rudder. That should provide more than enough torque.

I can't seem to find a reversing y-cable from JR. Does such a thing exist? How are they adjusted, by the transmitter programing I assume. As we are dealing with the flaps, I suppose is isn't crucial if they misalign a tad now and then.

You guys are great, I really appreciate the help.

Tom

(in reply to Build-n-flyer-RCU)

Post #: 514

RE: Hangar 9 150 Size P-51 - 12/31/2004 6:08:47 PM