RE: Byron Mustang

RE: Byron Mustang
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RE: Byron Mustang - 5/14/2009 1:11 PM

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Sounds like the same stuff that Carl Bachuber used on his B-36b.

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RE: Byron Mustang - 5/14/2009 2:29 PM

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HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! I JUST ENJOY!!!!................. is to many time
and for a long time I'm waiting for this day .... finally !!!.... VIDEO VIDEO VIDEO VIDEO VIDEO.
think that we can understand?

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RE: Byron Mustang - 9/29/2009 1:14 AM

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Now that Summer is over and Ive spent a weekend home and not chasing girls Ive begun to pick back up where I left off..( I havent done much since April, but im in no rush..)

The wing is wet sanded with 400 wet and ready for panel lines and rivets..I had laid them out once before on the wing to get an idea of how I wanted to do them..Im going to follow a Tamyia 1/48th P51 for the scale details..It seems like there is not to much or too little especially for a model that isnt scale as the Byron is..

The alignment of the Sierra Retracts with the original was pretty close but not close enough, and as the holes were already drilled, I had to drilll them out and fit with dowels and epoxy..I also replaced the threaded screw that Byron had running between the gear base and the wood at the top of the wing, and fitted it with hard wood and epoxied it in there really well..

The hole in the bottom right was a great starting point so I left that as it worked out where I only had to modify 3 of the 4....

I actually did all of this work in my parents house as I live in an apartment..not too condusive to wet sanding..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 9/29/2009 1:23 AM

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I also redid the tailwheel doors as I didnt like the way the turned out before...

I finished the radiator outlet and will add the support post that opens and closes it on the real P51..Im just going to leave this one static in the 1/2 open position..

I ordered the Flite Metal as well, and am just waiting on that at this point, and will get started on the riveting and covering of the control surfaces..

Im really not to sure how to conceal the rudder controls..? I have a bell crank, but Im not sure how to do the linkage into the rudder itself? Im considering just leaving it exposed, but Id rather not..

Im also not to sure how to simulate the rudder spars..? I tried to build up thae areas with filler and sand them lightly, and you can see that they sorta show but not really..I also didnt put them in the right locations either, so either way ill sand them off and redo them, but I may try and use tape instead of filler..not sure? I may try and simulate the linkage for the trim control too..doesnt look right with just the flange..

I hope to stay with some steady work again at this point now that summer is over..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 9/29/2009 3:52 AM

51-D GUY

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Looking Good ! SnakeBT6 ,

here's a pic of mine ,

Q-35 , 27 lbs. Flies Great ! one of these days, i'll get current projects out of the way so i can get my new one out & start

building it .

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RE: Byron Mustang - 9/29/2009 4:41 PM

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Nice..I think Ive seen some pictures of your plane on the board before..

I really like the looks of the Byron in the air..

Looks great..thanks for posting..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/2/2009 2:44 AM

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Just fooling around with some ideas for the pushrod exits..

I guess theres no way around this being an eyesore..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/2/2009 3:17 AM

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I would use skinni-dip. Most realistic metal finish! Very easy to work with. You can spray testors enamel over it. Spray with your airbrush and then buff in the powder. You can get a mirror finish or flat looking aluminum. The best example is the panel I did around the shroud. If you end up using it PM me. I get you over the very short learning curve in 10 minutes.....

http://www.impscale.com/html/skinni_dip.html

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/2/2009 4:44 PM

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Hey Snake, I have to say for a guy who never built an RC aircraft before you are doing a super job. Hell, for that matter, for a guy who built a hundred of these you are doing a great job. I love the Byron 51 and have seen a lot of them in the air but this is my first one.

I wanted to give you a comment on one of the applications I saw in your post. I used to fly with the Cloud Dancers in Florida in the early years when they were sponsored by Byron Originals. One thing we ALWAYS changed in the Byron kits was the elimination of all Nyrod devices. My F-16 had nyrod to the rudder also and we never solved the flutter issue from its usage. I even glued down every inch of the external rod but to no success.

Clarification on Nyrod, any plastic outer shell with a plastic inner pushrod.

We always converted to push rods. On the surface nyrod looks like a great answer with its ease of installation but it will fail you. We only used it for throttle control if we used it at all, never on a flight surface. That’s my two cents worth.

I love the dump door build on your machine and the way you created it. You have a genuine eye for detail and shows in your building skills. I can’t wait to see your finished product or for that matter, your next build. If the Byron 51 can’t make you a lifelong RCer then nothing will. It’s a real gem of the warbird world. I am quite sure you will soon learn (if you haven’t already) of the addiction of the hobby for any flight enthusiast.

I have also decided to eliminate the push pull system. Never been a big fan of that idea. I know there are some that use it and love it. The Flite Metal is also my choice and Ed is a great guy to work with. He has some really great ideas about this airplane and a lot of practical experience to back it up. I have really appreciated all of his comments and advice. Very good customer service oriented guy.

Keep up the great work Snake, I am very eager to follow your thread and see your progress.

< Message edited by Condor060 -- 10/2/2009 5:11 PM >

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/2/2009 9:46 PM

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Thanks for the compliments..much appreciated..

My dad flew RC for a few years but never got fully into it, he crashed quite a few trainers even after lessons, and as kid id sit on the tailgate of our station wagon and watch as he auger'd a few in

..He built quite a few airplanes as thats what he liked to do more then flying. I just watched and helped him out but that was back in early 80's and I was to young to work on anything that he was building..as well he built 7 or 8 ships..that took years for each..Ill post a few pictures over the weekend..really awesome stuff. HMS Victory and Wasa were the two major ones..

I have plenty of experience with the plastic kits and know the basics behind the RC stuff, and wanted to build something that was really interesting, instead of anymore plastics..I just wish I had more of a feeling of certaintly about some of the things, but thats why I started the thread..

Ill join a local club one of these days and hopefully have someone eventually fly this for me at least once or twice..

Thanks for the input on the push rods..I can change them for both the rudder and elevator..

My FM order is due to arrive today too, and I look forward to experimenting with it..

Thanks again..

Pat

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/3/2009 12:58 AM

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Nice looking so far. Byron planes are something special, and they would be proud to know you are using the reduction drive. I think your attention to detail from plastic models has transfered nicely to RC stuff.

While you're at it, you should grab yourself a trainer and get in the air. Trust me that when you are done, you will be very excited to see it airborne and unless you find a pilot you really trust, you won't want anyone on the sticks unless it's you!

Think of the hundreds of hours you spent only to see someone else wreck it in mere minutes and seconds....

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/3/2009 4:46 AM

Condor060

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Hey Pat, again this is my two cents worth. Spend a little coin and buy a Nexstar trainer. You can put a 46 on it and it will give you every parameter you need to get ready for the 51. I enjoyed your information about watching your dad when you were a little guy. Never forget those moments. I lost my dad two months ago and I always go back to those early days when we would fly/crash our planes together.

The Byron 51 is no trainer but it is a great flying plane. You have to keep it in its own flight parameters meaning that landing it is no any different than the real McCoy. You need to keep the throttle about half when you shoot an approach. That 4 bladed prop will act as a parachute and drag the aircraft to a stop in mid air if you bring it to idle.

You need to shoot a 30 degree dive to the runway with half throttle and land it on the main gear. Don’t ever try to land a three point landing as it will stall and snap roll into the runway. You need to roll it in just like the real 51 and it takes a little practice. If you want to I can buddy box you on mine and give you some stick time before you attempt to fly yours or we can hook your plane to my transmitter and do the same thing.

This kit is not a first time flyer but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be successful with yours. You need an experienced warbird pilot to show you its flight parameters so you can get a good feel for what it needs. A flight to Charlotte NC is only about $160 and is well worth some stick time before you take your beautiful bird up.

I have no problem letting you fly mine on the trainer box before you attempt yours. Or if you really want to go the extra distance you can drive the 12 hours with your plane and we can get it flying and trimmed out together.

I want to see you make a successful flight and landing and I am more than happy to help in any way I can. Let me know if I can help.

Regards

Fred Culbertson
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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/3/2009 3:13 PM

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Thanks for the advice guys..

Id certainly consider coming down for the weekend when the time comes Fred thanks for the offer..My biggest problem is I live in an apartment in Hoboken NJ, just on the other side of the Hudson from NYC where I work, so space is pretty limited..its pretty much kept me from buying a trainer in addition to the Byron and moving forward flying it..

Itll all happen one day for sure..for now Im really enjoying just working at my own pace and working on all the little projects that make up the whole of the plane..

Heres a few shots of a few of my dads ships..hes really got a talent with them..as well the last plastic I built right before I bought the Byron..I use it as a reference, and has nice blend of not too much or too little detail..its a Tamyia 1/48th..The 1/32nd version of the Hasagawa kit has it just about all if your looking for something thats got more..

Thanks again for all the advice..looking forward to making progress together.

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 12:56 AM

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Based on the nylon pushrods not being up to the task Id like to replace them..just not sure what is preferred..

Ive looked around on Tower, however now Im more confused about what type of pushrods I should get..If any for the rudder..

1. For the rudder I thought about the Dave Brown fibre glass push rods, or a Sullivan cable for a pull/pull system..Not sure..?

2. For the elevator Id use the Dave Brown push rods..

3. For the elevator I saw Sullivan made a 2 ball system for the control horn, but it doesnt look like it'll work with the one that I have with the Byron kit..Not sure how to make the two servos control the one horn?

4. Is there a paricular Clevis that is preferred?

If you guys could provide some advice Id appreciate it..

Thanks..

Here is a current picture showing the two rudder nylon guides and the elevator servo guides coming into the control horn..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 1:41 AM

Condor060

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Heres what I plan to use

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 1:45 AM

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Hey Snake, Man you already have a lot of work into the Nyrod installation. Hate to see that. Here is an idea of what I plan to use and a website you can get some ideas from.

http://www.centralhobbies.com/control_linkage/pushrod.html

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 1:59 AM

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A ball bearing three arm tiller can be mounted within the fuselage. The tiller third arm driven by a carbon fiber
rod with ball links on ends. The two long arms of the tiller are connected by Kevlar thread to "opposite ends"
of a single all-thread rod running through the vertical hinge line of the rudder.

The vertical fin on the P-51 has a "cuffed/sleeved" rudder post within which the rudder is hinged. Its been so
long since I worked on a Byron I don't remember whether his rudder post was recessed as it should be...

The rudder "leading edge" sits "insde" the cuff aka sleeve and swivels back and forth on the vertical hinge line
that is set back on the rudder. I will return in a few minutes and post additional rudder post images. On many
aircraft there is nothing more than a machined yoke which serves like an all thread rod sticking through hinge
line of the rudder at right angles with hyme attachment between threaded tube from rudder pedals and yoke.

Below is a view of the bottom right edge of the rudder with cuff on a P-51C. There is "no" space between the
rudder and the vertical fin rudder post...none seen from outside the airplane.

Below is another view of Kermit Weeks P-51C with an excellent view of the cuff. Note the space for swing of
the rudder at the bottom where it is wider.

On the Grumman F3F Wildcat's rudder it is cutaway for extreme rudder travel required on aircraft carriers. It
affords us a good view of the pull pull cables coming from rudder pedals through swedged hyme joints to a
right angle welded to sit just aft of the "offset" rudder hinge post. Hyme joints reduce friction and the binding
at the attachment point. Brass cups with nylon ball links work well if they are kept in vertical plane and not
placed where the arc of the rudder swing could uncouple the nylon.

< Message edited by FliteMetal -- 10/6/2009 2:38 AM >

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 2:33 AM

SnakeBT6

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Thanks Fred, I wish I knew about that from the jump, but what good would it be if I didnt have to do stuff twice..lol

Im not really too hardware savy, and Im certainly not up on whats preferred..

With the time and effort im putting in, Id rather replace what I have there and leave no doubt in my mind that I did everythng up to modern standards..Besides it looks like nice quality stuff..

Thanks for posting as well Ed..I was kind of wondering how far "in" to set the rudder..When I got the kit it didnt come with any plans, but setting up the rudder foam/post install it seemed pretty logical that the rudder would set in about a 1/4"..

Theres a great book I have called Production Line to Front Line, that Ive used for reference..Plus its pretty interesting reading..

(Got the order today BTW Thanks..)

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 2:46 AM

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Pat:

Did I send you the multiple view line art I sent to Fred? This will come in handy when you get to the
point where you are ready to apply your Flite-Metal. These docs will help with hinge line placement.
Are you going to make working boost tabs? Its easy to see rudder and elevator boost tabs above.
They are yellow...here's how they are attached.

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 3:01 AM

SnakeBT6

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Ed,

I made panel lines per the layout of the plastic kit I modeled above..I used a wider tape at the trim tab for more effect..I was going to follow these for panel line layout when I installed the Flite Metal..I would make rivets after the Flite Metal was installed as well..

The Byron kit already has panel lines moulded into the fusalage already..I was just using my Tamyia 1/48 kit for reference of panel lines and rivets..(see post below)

I dont know if my skills are up to cutting and making actual trim tabs..Starting to cut those would make me pretty nervous..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 3:11 AM

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This is the reference for the panel lines and rivets that im using..

I know its not accurate, but neither is the Byron kit and I thought this offered a nice balance..

I was going to add more riveting around the cowl and windscreen, where the Byron kit really lacks them..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 3:20 AM

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Pat:

Those are "boost" tabs to reduce the resistance to the air flowing over aileron, elevator, & rudder. Trim
tabs are static or manually set to a static position to offset aerodynamic error and changes in airframe
behavior at different speeds.

Boost tabs automatically adjust angle proportionally to the amount of control surface deflection. The tabs
are hinged to trailing edge of ailerons, elevators, & rudder and driven from hinge mounts by pull-pull rods.

OV-10 Bronco's boost tab shows more mechanical detail than the P-51. Below my daughter Jami pushes
up on the right aileron and the boost tab moves in the opposite direction. OV-10's are "horsed around" a lot
and require a great deal of boost compensation to offset huge forces on the cockpit control stick.

You can clearly see the top boost tab attachment point because it is externally attached. On the P-51 it
exits "out of" the elevator and aileron where it passes all the way to the hinge line & attaches to hinge bar.
The boost tabs are typically piano hinged to endure tremendous forces impacting them.

< Message edited by FliteMetal -- 10/6/2009 4:00 AM >

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 4:19 AM

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Thanks for clarifying that Ed..I always thought they were trim tabs..Never realized thats what they were for..

If I were to do this, they would just be on a piano hinge and free floating?

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 12:03 PM

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Pat:

If you make them faux boost tabs...do not leave them moving at all or you will have flutter. With everything
else that's new, its probably wise to simply make them faux by perimeter detail of the tabs and simply make
relief cuts along perimeter not cut them free.

I am mentioning this after reading you wanted to make your P-51 as authentic as possible. They have fabric
rudders. Both the A-36 and P-51C I showed images of above have fabric elevators.

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RE: Byron Mustang - 10/6/2009 1:08 PM

at-6 texan

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Hi snake BT6. an question I might say what is the name of the ship model? is the Vasa? .. three years ago 'when I went to Stockholm for the first time I went to the museum that held the real ship to' interior ... do not know how impressive to see a ship that appears out of the move the "pirates" and fascinating rickshaw in seeing from the third floor practically see the docks and yards when he was shipwrecked .. like a real ghost ship!.

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