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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/20/2009 2:41 PM   
800mZero


 

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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/20/2009 6:31 PM   
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Status: online 		I agree. Snake is doing one hell of a job on this 51. I love seeing a post in my e-mail about this thread as well. You have to hand it to him, he has the gift. Just a great great job all the way.

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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/22/2009 4:42 AM   
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Status: online 		Thanks so much for the compliments, sincerly appreciated..I appreciate all the advice and guidance Ive gotten as well..Also all the ideas from just browsing threads of other builds have really been a big help as well..I picked up alot from just looking..

I FM'd the horizontal stabs today..I think they came out pretty good..my original plan was not to rivet them or the rudder and other panels, but maybe I should as Ive come this far..

Ed, I also have a few air bubbles in some spots..no tmany but a few. I didnt know they were there until I went over the FM burnishing a bit after the final install..do you have any recommendations for them?

Also thanks for the templates on the last page..2nd from the left is what ill probably proceed with..thanks

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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/22/2009 12:05 PM   
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In your application process are you working outwards at right angles from the largest contact patch within each panel?

Identifying the largest contact patch is key to permitting the natural attributes of © to comply with the model surface.

When using the soft burnishing pencils provided with the FK packaging of © press down firmly with even pressure on side of the tool as you work outward from the center of the largest contact patch along the line you drew onto the surface. It is important to not overly burnish to prevent stretch before the attribute of stretch is desired.

When initially placing the © onto the surface of a panel permit it to sag or bow down parallel to and over line you drew representing the largest contact patch. Run your index finger along the surface of the to-be-applied © to effect the initial contact point. As is seen in the illustration above, work along that position outward and along the largest contact patch.

If the model is replicating documentation it is typically achieved by "knocking down" the off the roll appearance of ©. This will serve to render a realistic sheen and patina accompanying most natural aluminum finishes on aircraft. "Knocking down" is a term I use to describe sanding the surface in the appropriate direction then finishing the surface appearance with a © finishing pad and other finishing pads of various grade to achieve a match to your documentation.

It is during the "knocking down" process that pin holes are smurged with the balance of the surface of the model. If there are any tiny air bubbles beneath the surface after burnishing they are simply punctured with the point of a pin or fine point of a hobby knife.

Replication of documentation is the ultimate goal. Developing your technique for matching documentation is fast and in most cases best achieved off the airframe. Finishing © to achieve a proper surface texture and "look of the real thing"... : ) off of the airframe with pieces of © taped to a flat 1/4" thick aluminum plate is the typical method. This permits you to place documentation beside you as the surface is worked. In most cases you will achieve the surface texture with a few passes of your sanding block then finishing pad.

Below is Joe Grice's blood sweat and tears during finishing of a wing tank fin for his Top Gun winning F-86. No, it is not necessary to bleed unless of course your documentation calls for that stain ;^).



< Message edited by FliteMetal -- 11/22/2009 1:06 PM >


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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/22/2009 5:08 PM   
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Status: online 		Yes, im working the panels in that fashion..

I just have the occasional air bubble..On a few of the curved panels im using a little windex to set the FM, and it may be part of it..but theres only a few..nothing major.

Im 99% sure the paint scheme will be as below (including simulated cameras,) and Id like to polish the panels, except for the edges where they can stay in their current state or I can make them slightly dull ..just a bit. (at the edges and panel lines..not even a scuff but just un polished..)

The book NA P51 details this plane from every angle, and Im using that as a reference, and kind of thought it would be neat to do a recon version..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/22/2009 6:08 PM   
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An excellent choice!

That is the image of Margaret's front within our web site finishing section. That section is expanding to feature more customer examples. Polishing is fast and best done before you start laminating faux access panels to minimize effects on perimeter of the faux panel shape.

There is a black slurry created when polishing with high pumous metal polishes that should be worked back into © for fastest and most authentic tinting of polished panels. Typically on your size P-51 each panel polish in two or three minutes if they have been "knocked down" as I described. Aluminum's visual appearance will retain its extrusion grain though it has been polished. Its alloy accounts for much of this.

The exhaust surround is stainless, not aluminum. Tinting to replicate bluing which accompanies this panel is probably best left to air brushing to a desired appearance after sanding to work harden and compress the alloy to a finer grain. You will find the wet sanding to be a very creative opportunity. A sample of how this can look appears below. That is a close up taken of the F-100's leading edge slat at its inboard edge with 16 individual © real and faux panels in the photo.

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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/22/2009 10:31 PM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		Thaks Ed,

I really like it as its a restored original (Ill probably use gold/black window tint to simulate the camera covers..)

I wasnt sure if I wanted some of that residue or even the current finish to remain around the access panels as I polished as thats why I put them on..for that very mild dull tiny bit of dirt but not dirty effect, as the polishing build up would create that..

Although its aways out, any particular metal polish you recommend? I was going to do some experimenting with a drill/dremel with polishing pads..

Thanks for all your help so far..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 11/22/2009 11:16 PM   
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There is absolutely no reason to use anything for power to polish this model than elbow grease. To experiment on the surface of any model is to place the entire project in harms way.

I know there is usually a sense that a seller of something is exaggerating attributes or in this case the shortness of the time required to polish Flite-Metal. I am not one of those who mislead folks into thinking something is different than it really is...

Look at our web site. You will see polished, semi-polished, oxidized, clear coated, uncoated, painted and unpainted models covered with exactly the same alloy you are applying. There are $80,000.00 models shown along with $150.00 models...all with the same creative results by their builders.

Any high pumous content metal polish will cut the mustard after the surface of Flite-Metal has been knocked down. The higher the pumous content the better, and the faster it creates the slurry which is work hardened back "into" the alloy surface.

There are no short cuts to replicating a 1:1...only resources for compressing the task into a less time consuming journey. RC scale modeling, unlike plastic modeling, requires more time across a much larger surface to achieve an excellent looking result. The work you have completed thus far, the construction of the P-51, not the Flite-Metal covering process... was achieved in virutally 1/3rd the typical completion time required of the typical modeler.

This is not a hobby to rush through because we rush past too many opportunities for excellence....


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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/5/2009 7:57 PM   
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Status: online 		Havent done too much lately as Ive been busy with work..

I alittle soon but just wanted to check out the results..I tried some Nuvite "S" which is much more mild then pumice..results are great..

Ill have to burnish out the scratch but other wise the Nuvite really works well if this is where I decide to go with the finish..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/6/2009 3:58 PM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		Did some more FM last night..

Almost done with all the major curves..etc..(thank god..)

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/6/2009 5:50 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnakeBT6 Did some more FM last night.. Almost done with all the major curves..etc..(thank god..)


Way to go there Snake! Now, that wasn't painful was it... : )

You have progressed across these areas well. Your patience and attention to detail is showing. Obviously the rest of the airframe is a slam dunk by comparison. Save the belly scoop for last! I can see you have developed a feel for behavior of Flite-Metal's attributes. These are called forth to achieve proper compliance with the model surface. It truly is "how" and not "how much".

Compared to the time required to apply your initial panels...you should be enjoying two to three times the area covered in the same time. Time to apply across the majority of the fuselage is less than forty seconds per panel. Any finishing process that is done at the same time as application is obviously going to take more time.

Looking good! ! ! !


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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/7/2009 12:43 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		Thank you Ed, Im getting the hang of it for sure..

Finished up the front part of the vertical stab..I used a silver sharpie at the panel transitions, and it seems to help make them look nice and "clean." Wiped off the excess with mineral spirits..



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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/7/2009 1:33 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnakeBT6 Thank you Ed, Im getting the hang of it for sure.. Finished up the front part of the vertical stab..I used a silver sharpie at the panel transitions, and it seems to help make them look nice and ''clean.'' Wiped off the excess with mineral spirits..


Silver Sharpie? Are you using 3M Fine Line polypropylene tape for the perimeter of your panels? You cover the panel with Flite-Metal, trim the perimeter with a #14 Exacto blade, lift the excess aluminum and perimeter tape. Last, you use the soft burnishing pencil to press down the edges of the panel.

Why was it necessary to apply paint to the Flite-Metal panel...? I don't understand...



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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/7/2009 2:43 AM   
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Status: online 		Yes to the tape and xacto blades and burnishing after cutting..

It wasnt necessary where I made my own panel lines, but the preformed Byron ones are pretty wide, and it just seemed to help with the occasional uneveness of the cuts I made within those lines...for the most part there wasnt a need for it, but on the whole it made the panel lines look more full and clean..Just one of those subtle things that makes it look better..to me anyways..


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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/7/2009 2:49 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		I wanted to ask, is there anyone that knows of a machine shop or a specialist that would balance my reduction drive?

Mine has an extra lip on the back of the pully and an additional bracket installed as well which is all well and good for strength..That area with the rubber hose and two clamps that connect the output shaft to the rest of the drive just looks like its going to be the source of some major vibration..

Id like to try and have it balanced if at all possible..( I plan on uprgrading to a 42..that is currently a 35.. )

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/8/2009 3:53 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		I told myself I was done cutting holes, but I think as Ive come this far, I might as well cut out the oil cooler opening too..

Im just going to open three sides of it and push the rectangle "up" at the front and the angle piece "down" at the back for a mild opening..thats where I was going to mount the air tank so I dont want to get too crazy with it..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/9/2009 3:38 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		I worked late so I didnt get much done..

Made the opening and Ill fit out the side walls and epoxy into position..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/9/2009 3:55 AM   
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I have a Byron P51 that has flown. It flies real well on the Q42 and looks great in the air with the big 4 blade prop out front. Problem I have is to reduce the exhaust noise. I have the same header you have on the 35 in your picture a few posts back. I am interested in seeing the Keleo exhaust you mentioned. I need to put a better muffler on mine adn wna tot do it inside the cowl, so lets see what you have.

By the way one way to help reduce vibration from the gear reduction drive is to machine and push a ring into the back side of the prop hub to true it up. I've seen a lot of Byrons fly and they all shake pretty good. Make sure you locktite or glue in EVERYTHING. Almost lost mine on the third flight when the servo try came loose.

Thanks,

Todd

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/9/2009 3:52 PM   
hemi


 

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Status: offline 		I had a Byron Mustang back in the 80's, it was a single wing version like yours with a 35. I didn't get many flights on it before I crashed it. My fault, in retrospect I wasn't skilled enough yet to handle it. What I remember most was the sound the prop made on a fly by. That was so cool. The other thing I remember was the high level of vibration at idle. It smoothed out as soon as you opened the throttle. There was an extensive write up in an old magazine called Scale RC Modeler. Norm Goyer was the editor. I wish I stilled had that article, it might help even today. I think there was a least four if not six points of contention were vibrations originated in the drive and while I don't think they every eliminated it they did reduce it. Thinking back on it I wonder if anyone has ever ran the drive electrically to isolate the inherent vibration in single cylinder engines. I bought a basket case Mustang a few years ago and have slowly been restoring it. This thread has got me interested in this project again. The Detroit Miss was my first and the siver with black stripes is the basket case. Looks can be deceiving it was on the brink of being just junk when I bought it. I had to clean out about 10lbs of expandable foam out of the fuse and I replaced every bulkhead in the plane. Under the paint was tons of stress cracks and bad glass work. Even the landing gear. While it looked OK on the outside it was not original on the inside. Fortunately I had all of the important parts from the Miss, in fact I grafted some of her glass into this one.

Thanks

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/9/2009 4:53 PM   
hemi


 

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I love the extra detail work your putting into your Mustang. You said you wanted to do Lil' Margeret what a nice choice. Have you noticed the exhaust shrouds are not in the same place side to side when looking down from the top. The engine offset is about 6 degree's if my memory is correct. I read somewhere that the shroud position is not so obvious until you start to checker the nose. Since you've come this far, why not cut out the original shrouds and replace the with a set from Tony Howard. His stuff is awesome, you could do a behind the cowl fit with a small gap around the shroud and make it look scale.

Todd
I replaced my straight pipe exhaust with a nice muffer from Bennett. The were designed for the Quadra. I'm not sure how much nose reduction we have but its got to be better than the pipe. I know I couldn't fly mine on the pipe at are field without concern of noise complaints

Best regards

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/10/2009 2:52 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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My drive has that ring installed, and an additional brace as well..seems like that ring is acting as a harmonic balancer would.

Im going to reach out for Keleo after the new year and see if they will make something for me...either way I would cut out the stock manifolds and replace them with something more scale..Ive seen the PC Scale Acft manifolds and If I dont wind up with Kelo (hope that doesnt happen though..) they would be my next choice for sure..

Im going to go to Bennet for the 42. Other then trying to get a used one hes the only guy Ive seen still selling the Quadra 42..Id love to put an inline twin in it, especially if I Keleo can make an exhaust for it, but id rather fly it with the 4 blades above that..

On the paint scheme, Ive never seen a LiL Margaret and I thought it would be neat to do..not the typical 8th AF P51 and I want to model the cameras, so itll be alittle different in that respect..Any other cool scheme I though I might like Ive seen done before so thats really how I wound up deciding on it..I have a book with a few black and whites of the real one in the field too..The Jump'in Jaques would be my alternate..

When I remove the 35, Id love to try and spin the RD drive over at some kind of speed and get a feel for what it does as far as vibration..It seems like that double clamp connection would be the culprit of some bad stuff..then again how balanced is a Quadra 42?

It is what is going to be and Ill do my homework to try and eliminate what I can.. Seems like I lucked out when I picked up this particular drive, as it has some machine work already done to it..

Good luck with your restoration..pretty amazing some of the kits have been around as long as they have and are still flying..Im not really sure how old mine is but with the one piece wings its got to come from aways back..



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< Message edited by SnakeBT6 -- 12/10/2009 3:33 PM >

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/13/2009 1:37 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		Finished the rough work on the oil cooler..

Pretty simple really, not too much to what I did..Im going to block it all with wood and epoxy form the backside, do the cleanup work and install..

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/13/2009 2:12 AM   
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Status: offline 		Are you opening up the front side of the inlet?


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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/13/2009 3:04 AM   
SnakeBT6


 

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Status: online 		I was going to detail a screen, but block it off..Im going to set the air tank right in this area as well..

Caught my girl friend checking out the competition.. ( generally she could care less..lol )

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< Message edited by SnakeBT6 -- 12/13/2009 5:58 AM >

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RE: Byron Mustang - 12/13/2009 3:10 AM   
FliteMetal



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Status: offline 		Santa Alert...Santa Alert...Clearly you do not understand your girl friend is seeing too much of where your $ goes.... :^(


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