Fragmentum

My Feedback: (8)

I am posting this in the Beginners Forum as I believe this is the most important spot to post this. I think that most experience builders will know how to treat this issue and not chance using an incomplete product.

I recently purchased two of Sullivan Products #505 GOLD-N-ROD control sets. There were no 2-56 steel hex nuts included in these sets to securely fasten the clevis to the threaded studs used to complete the installation.

The instructions included in the kits direct the use of these nuts in the installation but are not supplied in the kits.

I contacted Sullivan Products that the necessary items to complete the installation was not included and asked them to send them to me. I was rebuffed and told to secure these elsewhere. Our correspondence can be provided on request.

If these necessary locking nuts are NOT used, the builder stand the chance to loose their aircraft during flight and/or loose control of the aircraft possibly causing injury or property damage. This is a severe liability issue waiting to manifest itself.

In my opinion, use of these 2-56 steel hex nuts to lock the clevis to the threaded studs is mandatory. I was taught to never depend on a chemical locking material (Loc Tite, CA, epoxy, etc.) to lock any metallic items together as they are unreliable.

Bottom line, always consider the BEST building practice to keep your model and yourself safe and not always depend on a specific product or its instructions to guide you. Sometimes corporate does not know what they are missing in their products nor care to make the necessary changes.

Moderator, please make this a Sticky....

jooNorway

I always have a lot of spare hex nuts for this purpose.
When the plane is maidened and everything finally adjusted I usually add a drop of thin CA to one of the ends to ensure things won`t unscrew.

safeTwire

My Feedback: (2)

Make the end that attaches to the servo permanent with a Z bend or a solder link etc. Then, the inner pushrod cant unscrew out from the threaded clevis at the control horn.

Mode One

Because you thread one end into the plastic inner Golden Rod and I usually have to hold the threaded rod with a needle nose to get it to screw in as far as I want it to go, I don't worry about the rod backing out. Also, to screw out of one end of the inner rod, the other end would need to screw in. So, until it would actually come undone (which I feel simply will not happen) if there was screwing in and screwing out going on, this will not effect trim one bit. Also, if I'm using a plastic clevis, I don't worry about this unscrewing either. So, since I have no worrys about anything in the system failing due to the unscrewing, i don't believe lock nuts are necessary. Since the mid 70s, when I first started using Golden Rods for control surface actuation, I have never had one fail due to not having a lock nut in the system. Personally I've had more problems with the change in length due to temperature or humidity changes than anything else. I've even lost an airplane due to this!

However, having said the above, if Sulliavn recommends a lock nut be used and they aren't providing them, I think the procuct is being shipped to the customer incomplete. Let's face it, there are fewer and fewer Hobby Shops around and the Hobby Shops out there are carrying less and less parts for people who like to build models! My local hardware stores do not carry 2-56 nuts so I'd have to order them from a fastener retailer.

stang

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with Mode 1, I've been using these since the late seventies without a locknut and haven't had any problems with them loosening up. I suppose they could in theory but I have never seen it happen. I wouldn't over-react on this.

aerowoof

I have been using these since 1972 and never hadto use the hex nuts but I either use a z-bend or a e-z connector on the servo arm.
one thing I forgot to mention is that to remove the slop from a stright run they should have a s type run to remove the slop and in this case the inner rod would not be able to unscrew anyway

FILE IFR

Same here.

IMHO, I think it's foolish to use a plastic clevis... ANYWHERE on a nitro/gas airplane. A 1/16th inch pin providing control security to your surface horns is crazy... Just MY opinion.

Campgems

The problem isn't so much the rod unscrewing out of the clevis, but that the clevis and rod are rolled threads. They don't fit snugly and they will wiggle around a bit. Now if the life of your models is like mine, it isn't much of a problem but over time they will wear on each other if allowed to wiggle around, I'm not talking about turning, but wiggling.

The other good thing about the nut is that it make adjustments easier.

Don

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

The golden rod set comes with the golden clevises, not plastic. There should have been a small plastic bag floating around in the kit you bought. If not then no one should buy the set. I'm sure someone just missed putting in the #2 nuts and I can see there point, 8 cents worth of nuts and 50 cents postage doesn't make sense. However, a set is a set and they do owe you the nuts. As to using them, I would, not because of them unscrewing but the controls are supposed to be tight and unless you have the locking nut jambed on the clevis it tends to wobble. Most of us that build have these and #4s in bags of 100 so it's hard for us to understand not having a building box you can just reach into and pull out what you need. Our fault for forgetting how it was, most of us forget ever using the golden rod at all but we did!! Sorry to hear you had a problem but it's not really a sticky problem if you give it some thought. If you have the time to wait a couple of days just hit me with a PM with your address and I will send you a few nuts in the mail so you have some spares. Not a problem.

Villa

I have been using those Sullivan Golden Rods since 1972 and never heard of using a lock nut.

Mode One

Well, like Golden Rods, I have used plastic clevis' since the 70s on almost everything I've flown and never had a failure so it's not "Foolish" of me to use them and yes, the Golden Rod comes with metal clevis which I will also use and will use a lock nut with them as the clevis and rod have the correct fit between them which will easily turn. However, the reason I use a lock nut in this case is the loosness of the clevis and threaded rod fit, allows the clevis to rattle/vibrate due to engine vibration, this wears the threads out fairly quicly between the two parts and the nut locks the parts together and eliminates wear. It also eliminates metal to metal contact causing RF noise.

If I'm using a metal control horn I will use a plastic clevis as this iliminates metal to metal contact.

FILE IFR

Mode 1
As I stated in my past post, it's just MY opinion that using a plastic clevis is 'foolish'... for me at least; NOT you or anyone else.

BTW, I only use the Sullivan metal "dove-tailed" clevises. I do have to admit though... I use metal servo arms with metal clevises on several 'bigger money' planes with countless flights and never once suffered an RF glitch... long time PCM user and recent 2.4 gig user.

So far it's been good to me.... knock on wood![8D]

Fragmentum

My Feedback: (8)

Thanks for the offer, Gray Beard. I have some spares to use in this case, and Sullivan does sell them seperately under part number S497 in packs of 20. The product in of itself was just incomplete.

Mode One, good points about hobby shops having hard time making enough business to stay afloat during this recession, and other hardware outlets not carrying as small as 2-56 size anything. I was told by the Sullivan rep to buy them at my local Lowe's or Home Depot. Neither retailer carries smaller thatn 4-40 hardware in my area. I usually get my R/C hardware in bulk from Micro Fasteners, where I can also get lighter weight plastic hardware as well. Yes, I still support my LHS with as much purchasing as I can.
I also brought up the RF noise issue in my emails to Sullivan, whice is a real safety issue at the field. The fact that the metal clevis is loose on the metal stud is a wear area as you mention as well, and the jam nut fixes this issue too.

As far as using or not using plastic clevis for any particular application is for another thread....

Thanks to all who have responded to this issue. I hope Sullivan takes this issue to heart and corrects the instructions, the bill of materials that is supplied with the product, and concerns that some of us modelers have with the safety issue this presents.

cowboydfk

I have used some golden-rods in the past and I have never got a locking nut with any,thats why I'm confused here,does the nut go on the threads of the pushrod before the gold clevis goes on?does someone have a pic with a locking nut installed that would give me an idea if I need to start installing locking nuts on my pushrods?

Campgems

IF you have an Ace hardware, chances are good that they have the small screws and nuts you need. I just spent a few days looking for a 2.5mm x 20 or 25mm socket head for a rocker cover on my O.S 1.20 on Tower and other model sites. I stopped at the local Ace and they had a filister head 2.5 x 20 that worked quite well. The had metric scrws down to 1.6mm

This is the loose stuff that the big box doesn't handle. Support your LHS, Local Hardware Store.

Don

Campgems

You dont need a nut at the rod end, if you have screwed the threaded piece in far enought. You use the nut on the clevis end to lock it so it doesn't wiggle around.

Don

Fragmentum

My Feedback: (8)

Yes, Cowboydfk, there is confusion about the use of this product because of the conflict between the instructions on one side of the long skinny sheet enclosed with the Gold-N-Rods and the list of materials included on the other side of the sheet. The instruction side not only describes the nuts as part of the installation procedure but shows them in place behind the clevis in the line drawing!!! HOWEVER, Sullivan chooses NOT to provide them in the kits!!!

Yes, the nut is screwed onto the stud you have screwed into the inner Gold-N-Rod, then you screw on the clevis far enough to see the stud extend into and between the two clevis 'legs'. I would say at least 1/8 - 1/4 inch is sufficient, and gives enough stud length for fine tuning adjustment. AND DON'T FORGET TO TIGHTEN THE NUT ! ! !

My photos at the beginning of the post shows this on both sides of the sheet.

These additional photos show the nut securley tightened behind the clevis. One photo shows the retaining clip installed and another shows the use of a piece of fuel line slipped over the clevis to prevent it from opening and coming off the control horn.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Ok. I have been using the Sullivan rods for quite some time. Lately, though, I've been using the carbon rods. I handle this two ways. First of all, I make sure the hole in the center of the rod is the right size for the rod. I use the non-threaded side of the steel rod, carefully measure the length of the threaded portion I want sticking out of the carbon rod and mark it with a Sharpie (permanant marker with a very small tip), then I scruff up the shiny side (non-threaded side). I grab the carbon rod carefully but firmly with a large pair of pliers, put the threaded rod in the jaws of a variable speed drill, put the rod right up against the carbon rod at the hole, then I drip two or three drops of CA on the buffed up steel rod, then turn the drill at medium speed while pushing the steel rod into the carbon rod. You have to work quickly because the CA sets up pretty quickly, but I push it in while it is spinning. The CA acts like a lube at first then it siezed up when you stop the drill. I stop it at the point where I marked the rod with the Sharpie which is where I want the rod to be. It does not come apart and is a very solid junction.

Then I use the Dubro Clevis' Quick Link Safety Clevis: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXWH32&P=7

These are tight, fit right, tough, and are very secure.

CGr.

bruce88123

I use the clevis's that CG posted. I moved to these from the metal clevis's because I started finding the metal ones constantly working loose or stripping even with the jam nuts. The Dubro Clevis' Quick Link Safety Clevis's have never been a problem.

Fragmentum

My Feedback: (8)

bruce88123 & CGRetired,

As I was reading your posts here I was thinking "I wish those that read this would keep 'on-topic' about the Sullivan Gold-N-Rod issue", but then realized the alternatives to using the Sullivan product is VERY on-topic and surely relevant to THIS specific issue.

If we have to deal with products presented to us, and by long standing reputable companies as well as new suppliers, then workable and SAFE alternatives definitely need to be addressed!

Strength and weight are problems we have to deal with on every aircraft, full builds as well as ARF types, and the recommendations from bruce88123 and CGRetired address both issues specifically. WELL DONE!!!

Hopefully the management of Sullivan (and other suppliers/manufactures) monitors forums such as ours, and responds positively concerning OUR concerns, and their product line....

Fragmentum

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, Frag, I thought about that, but I also thought it would be good information to know what others are using. I just didn't like the metal clevis' with the check-nut, so I changed to the Dubro. So, I thought it would be worth also showing how I did my connections too.

Thanks for taking it for what it was, and I hope it works out for you. You never know where good information is going to come from, and this, at least two of us agree, is good information, and on-topic.

CGr.

bruce88123

And the Gold'n Rod and the Gold'n clevis are 2 seperate issues. The Dubro link fits easily on the Gold'n rod ends.

hogflyer

I got away from using the Gold-n-Rods and similar products for the most part many years ago due to the fact they expand/contract with temperature changes which affects you plane. While metal/wood pushrods will to, the amount is not significant enough to cause a trim change. But they do make a great guide tube for metal/wire push rods.

Hogflyer

Mr. Mugen

Hey fella's. Not sure how "right" it is but hre is what I do. Once I have maidened my plane and trimmed it out, I just a small bit of solder on the metal to metal connections (just the clevises). I have not been doing this too long (maybe 3 years) and so far nothing has moved or caused any problems. I will continue to do this until I find reason not to.

Kevin

cowboydfk

Last night after reading this I went downstairs and looked at one of my planes with gold-n-rods and sure enough I could twist the push rod with my fingers with little effort,[&o]I would have never relized this.I was thinking about some solder to but will it melt the yellow plastic pushrod?the one the threaded part goes in.