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JR 12X and 10X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to En... - 5/3/2009 8:46 AM   
SinCityJets


 

Posts: 2778
Joined: 11/13/2005
Last Login: 5/17/2013
From: Henderson, NV, USA
Status: offline 		If you own a 12X ad are sick of the pack running down quickly, upgrade your pack to Eneloop cells. They are Nimh cells made by Sanyo that are the cutting edge of technology (as far as Nimh goes). They carry a lot of the same traits as A123 batteries (safe, 1000+ cycle life, maintain over 80% of charge after 1 year of sitting). The biggest difference is they maintain a higher voltage longer and last much longer the the stock 2000mah pack.

Now, the Eneloop cells are also only 2000mah, so how could they last longer than the stock pack?? Something tells me you're not getting 2000mah out of the stock pack (or getting more out of the eneloops). You can also charge the stock Eneloops on any Nimh charger.

As far as where to get them, Costco actually cells 8 AA's, 2 AAA's, a charger, and some other goodies for about $30. The only problem is building the pack for a stock-looking fit. The case that the batteries reside in is made to the EXACT dimension of the stock cells. Therefore the new pack must be assembled in the exact same fashion. There is no additional room for solder, tabs, etc. If you take your pack down to a local battery place, you may be able to get one made correctly. Also, be careful with the circuit board inside the pack, if you accidentally short it, you will blow the charging protection fuse.

For those wishing to make the upgrade and not fuss with the cells, I sell the Eneloops pre-welded, ready to drop in your stock case for $45 plus shipping. If you want, you can even mail me the pack and I will switch out the cells for you at no additional charge.

If you have any questions, let me know.

UPDATE: I have added the pre-welded eneloop packs to my website.

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< Message edited by SinCityJets -- 5/10/2009 5:12 AM >

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/3/2009 3:51 PM   
E.N.T.


 

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From: San Juan, , PUERTO RICO (USA)
Status: offline 		Need your address. Mine is a 10x.

Hector

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/3/2009 6:00 PM   
sandslx



Posts: 433
Joined: 1/1/2002
Last Login: 5/5/2013
From: Columbia Falls, MT, USA
Status: offline 		The problem is people get a new 12X and they cant wait to play with it so they take it out of the box run the battery down and then charge it overnight...this does not do the Nimh any favors in memory. It needs to be charged for 25-35 hours straight. I know it does not say it in the manual and I am guilty too. This is what I was told from the JR camp. I am just spreading the good word on how to make your Jr Nimh last longer.

Justin Sands

BVM rep
Team JR/Horizon



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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/3/2009 6:24 PM   
Vincent



Posts: 4255
Joined: 12/7/2001
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: online 		I have been running Rayovac Hybrids in my 10x for 6 months and they are awesome. The Sayno cells are similar and will work just as good.
V..

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/3/2009 7:58 PM   
KC36330



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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandslx

The problem is people get a new 12X and they cant wait to play with it so they take it out of the box run the battery down and then charge it overnight...this does not do the Nimh any favors in memory. It needs to be charged for 25-35 hours straight.



I've got the 12x MV, i put mine on the included charger right out of the box, it stayed on it for a FULL 3 days and never stopped blinking, the battery was warm so i unhooked it and used the TX. if i use the stock charger it hardly ever stops blinking (only twice that i recall) and the charge isn't long lasting (not what it should be), if i use my Triton to charge it the charge lasts as long as my 10x when used on 72 MHz. i don't think the problem is the stock battery as much as the charger.

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 12:03 AM   
SinCityJets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hmarmaizmd

Need your address. Mine is a 10x.

Hector


Hector,

My address is on my website, but here it is too:

Chad Russell
252 Helmsdale Dr
Henderson, NV 89014

Paypal email address: sincityjets@cox.net



Jusin,

I have let the cells charge until it stopped blinking. One other benefit to the cells I left out; no memory effect. See what they think of them so far.


KC,

While the charger does suck, it is the quality of the cells.

Chad

< Message edited by SinCityJets -- 5/10/2009 5:14 AM >

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 4:51 PM   
bcovish



Posts: 4261
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Status: offline 		At what rate do you charge the Eneloop packs and what battery type do you set the charger for?
Thanks

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Austin TX

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 6:15 PM   
Hammbone



Posts: 1682
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From: Loveland, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I'm thinking of replacing my stock 12X battery pack.
I'm looking at these Eneloops, or the Duralite Li Ion tx pack for the 12X. The Duralite pack is $150, so I'm not crazy about that.

I'm not sure what kind of charger I would need for these Eneloops though. I don't think I want to continue using the stock 12X charger, as it seems to be part of the problem, causing the battery to heat up too much.

So what charger should I get to charge an Eneloop pack? How long would it take to charge?
I don't use NiMh on anything else, so it would be a dedicated 12X tx battery charger.

Thanks, Jim

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 6:47 PM   
SinCityJets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcovish

At what rate do you charge the Eneloop packs and what battery type do you set the charger for?
Thanks


I charge them at either 500 mah or 250 mah on the Nimh setting (that's what they are). They are "capable" of up to 1000 Mah, although they get a little warm at that rate.

Chad

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 6:48 PM   
SinCityJets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hammbone

I'm thinking of replacing my stock 12X battery pack.
I'm looking at these Eneloops, or the Duralite Li Ion tx pack for the 12X. The Duralite pack is $150, so I'm not crazy about that.

I'm not sure what kind of charger I would need for these Eneloops though. I don't think I want to continue using the stock 12X charger, as it seems to be part of the problem, causing the battery to heat up too much.

So what charger should I get to charge an Eneloop pack? How long would it take to charge?
I don't use NiMh on anything else, so it would be a dedicated 12X tx battery charger.

Thanks, Jim


ANY nimh charger will charge these batteries, including the new CellPro Multi 4.

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 7:09 PM   
bcovish



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< Message edited by bcovish -- 5/4/2009 7:34 PM >

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 7:24 PM   
SinCityJets


 

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Status: offline 		Bob,

I don't have the eneloops on the website (yet). Just to clear up, Eneloops are NOT A123 batteries. They are a new AA Nimh battery made by Sanyo. Just shoot me an email and I can send you a PayPal invoice if you need some from me.

Chad

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 7:29 PM   
bcovish



Posts: 4261
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinCityJets

Bob,

I don't have the eneloops on the website (yet). Just to clear up, Eneloops are NOT A123 batteries. They are a new AA Nimh battery made by Sanyo. Chad


Me bad

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 7:38 PM   
ddennison


 

Posts: 1751
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From: rochester, MN, USA
Status: online 		Has anyone charger their 12x stock batteries using a Sirius charger?

Thanks
Dave

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 7:41 PM   
Vincent



Posts: 4255
Joined: 12/7/2001
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: online 		I use my sirius tx charger and it seems to work fine, it is a 1amp rate, the Rayovac Hybrid cells do not get hot at 1amp. The charger you get at Costco with the eneloop batts is rated at 800ma i believe.
V..

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 9:46 PM   
ddennison


 

Posts: 1751
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From: rochester, MN, USA
Status: online 		Thanks Vincent,

I have charged my 10x for years with my Sirius.

I didn't/don't know what the difference is between the stock charger and the Sirius, and if the Sirius would hurt the batteries at all. I presume the battery in the 12x is simply a NiMH with the samie diode protection as the 10X?

Thanks
Dave

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 10:32 PM   
raptorlogo


 

Posts: 126
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From: -Burgundy, FRANCE
Status: offline 		Hello,
Do hou have something for ou pôle Futaba T12 FG?
NiMh or Lipo?

Alain

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 10:41 PM   
digitech


 

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From: klimmenlimburg, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		wrong thread sorry

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/4/2009 10:50 PM   
SinCityJets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: raptorlogo

Hello,
Do hou have something for ou pôle Futaba T12 FG?
NiMh or Lipo?

Alain


I am not familiar with the Futaba radios, or their batteries. Maybe someone else has some experience with Futaba that can chimein.

Chad

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/7/2009 1:56 AM   
bcovish



Posts: 4261
Joined: 2/4/2002
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I ordered a TX pack (Eneloops) Mon. mid morning and I had them at 8am today (Wed). Great service.

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Austin TX

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/7/2009 3:49 AM   
Tom Antlfinger



Posts: 2183
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From: Fond du Lac, WI, USA
Status: offline 		http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2330249

I think what is confusing some is that the discharge curve of the low self-discharge NiMh is different. As can be seen from the above link, the discharge curve of an Eneloop or any of the other low self-discharge packs like the stock 12X pack is that once the 8 cell voltage gets to about 9.8-10.0v, it flattens for a long time, i.e. for up to about 6-7 hours at that voltage, similar to what you see with an A123. For me, doing about 12 minutes TX time on/flight, that is more than 30-35 flights before re-charging was absolutely necessary.

We are all used to seeing our old TX NiCds and NiMh fall of the cliff when the voltage reached 9.8, but no more.

On rainy days, like today, I have turned on my 12X which pulls 180 ma/hr according to JR manual. It comes off the charger at about 11.2, stays there for about 3-5 minutes, then slowly drops down to about 9.9-10.0v in about 1 hour.......then for almost 7 hours it never gets below 9.7v which is still above nominal of 9.6v for an 8-cell pack. It takes almost 9 hours for the low battery alarm to go off at about 8.8-8.9v.

Important point mentioned in Sanyo poop sheets is that the cells are very intolerant of overcharging, so be very careful with trickle charging at the end of a normal charge cycle. I don't trickle charge NiMh cells any more. Same deal with wall warts....careful or you will fry the cells.

And Justin's point about forming NiMh packs is most important for full capacity and long life according to battery gurus like Red Scholefield, Andy Lo, and George Joy at Sirius Peak Electronics......when I got mine, I discharged down to 0.9/cell or 7.2v for the 12X pack using my Sirius calibrated discharger. I then re-charge, using a 5mv peak, at C/10 or 200 ma. I do that twice. Takes a while.

If interested, lots of stuff dating back to 2006 when Eneloops first appeared can be found on other R/C sites and at other battery info sites.

< Message edited by Tom Antlfinger -- 5/7/2009 3:56 AM >

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/7/2009 4:24 AM   
Desertlakesflying


 

Posts: 1410
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From: Sun Valley, NV, USA
Status: offline 		I don't like to build packs or use stock ones. That's why Batteries Plus comes in handy. They are located all over the US. You pay for the cells they make the packs at no extra charge.

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/7/2009 4:42 AM   
SinCityJets


 

Posts: 2778
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From: Henderson, NV, USA
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, they don't sell the eneloops (at least mine doesn't). They are however nice enough to make the packs, for a fee of course.

And I wouldn't put the stock packs in the same class as the eneloops. They are not. Everyone that has used them can immediately tell a difference, in both maintaining a higher voltage longer, and lasting longer. Battery care is the same for any battery. The better you take care of them, the longer they will last.

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/7/2009 5:15 AM   
Vincent



Posts: 4255
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Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: online 		Batteries Plus sells Rayovac Hybrids...they are similar to the eneloops and have worked well for me.
V..

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RE: JR 12X Owners - Upgrade your battery pack to Eneloops - 5/7/2009 5:52 AM   
Tom Antlfinger



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinCityJets
And I wouldn't put the stock packs in the same class as the eneloops. They are not. Everyone that has used them can immediately tell a difference, in both maintaining a higher voltage longer, and lasting longer.


You may be right Chad, but the discharge curve on my stock 12X looks almost identical to the one in the link I posted that was for an 8 cell Eneloop discharged at 250 ma. It is hard to compare anecdotal reports though, since just one overcharge can really degrade these low internal resistance LSD cells.

There are 4 major companies out there making LSD(low self discharge) NiMh packs, Matsushita, Yuasu, Sanyo, and Rayovac, plus a couple of small Jap firms. They private brand them for a dozen or more companies under all kinds of funky names. They all use similar chemistry to achieve their performance, but have small differences among them to prevent patent violations. I don't know which company JR uses for their cells.

There also are varied ways the manufacturers select cells for sale. Back in the old NiCd and NiMh days, they used temperature, i.e. they would charge a batch at a certain current level, and those that didn't exceed a critical temp were good for sale, and those that got too hot were sold to private branders who stuck them in kid's toys etc.

So maybe Eneloops are the good cells off the line, and 12X has the Eneloop dregs.....



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