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Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/18/2003 10:11:59 PM   
Juice Man


 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/30/2003
From: Bellingham WA
Status: offline 		Initially I had planned on building a trainer with an OS .65LA. . .But to save money I've decided to just build a 40 size kit with a .40LA I already have.

You guy's replies to my earlier [URL=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=848337]post[/URL] about fuel choices convinced me that a 20% castor/synthetic blend would run best in .65's, so I'm assuming the same applies to .40's. . .

But I can't find any manufacturers that make a fuel with 5 or 10% nitro with 20 or 22% (80-90% castor, rest synth) oil. . .Anyone know of any??

I've made up my mind and I'm ready to break my engine in. . .Just need to find the fuel I'm looking for use.

btw: I plan to follow OS's break-in procedure, use MA 11x5, 5% fuel mentioned above, and an electric starter. When I start flying I'll use a 10oz tank with 10% fuel, 10x6 APC, and I'll flip start it, cuz I hear electric starters are hard on engines. :
       Post #: 1

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/19/2003 4:18:34 AM   
RS4RACER



Posts: 306
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: NEW TRIPOLI, PA, USA
Status: offline 		ummm...If im getting you right,you could use wildcat,which is 10%,but it has 18% oil.I use it with no troubles.....


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-RS4RACER

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 2

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 2:18:02 AM   
hauckf


 

Posts: 187
Joined: 3/1/2002
From: Decatur, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Juice Man: I followed your link to your previous thread and found some mis-information. The only manufacturer that I have found that blends by weight is Byron (not Morgan). Since oil (both synthetic and castor) is heavier (denser, actually) than methanol, blending by weight results in less oil in a gallon than blending by volume using the same percentages. The same is true of nitro; it is also heavier than methanol. Bottom line, Byron's Premium Sport 20% oil (castor/syn), 10% nitro fuel actually contains about 17.2% oil and 7.5% nitro by volume, not 20% oil and 10% nitro as you might expect.

All the other manufacturers I checked, Morgan, PowerMaster, Red Max, Wildcat, Cooper's, and S&W claim that they blend by volume , and I have no reason to doubt it.

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 3

Re: Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 2:19:08 AM   
JWN



Posts: 4785
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Florence, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Juice Man
But I can't find any manufacturers that make a fuel with 5 or 10% nitro with 20 or 22% (80-90% castor, rest synth) oil. . .Anyone know of any??
.......................
and I'll flip start it, cuz I hear electric starters are hard on engines.[/QUOTE]

I think you have your oils backwards. Generally, you want the majority to be synth with a little castor thrown in, not the other way around.

Also, the starter is hard on engines is an old wives tale. They don't harm the engine at all.

John

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 4

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 7:52:53 AM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		Juice Man...the nearest thing I know of to what you want is the Powermaster GMA 5/22 or 10/22 fuels. Both of these have an equal blend of castor/synthetic.
http://www.powermasterfuels.com/control.htm

JWN...if used correctly an electric starter doesn't harm an engine. But this means with an engine that's ready to start quickly by hand if you want to. You have to be especially careful with a plain bearing engine like the LA's that the shim thrust washer is adequately lubricated before you use the starter. I've seen an LA with a completely frozen crank from misuse of a starter. I hate to think what the piston and liner were like

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 5

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 8:10:31 AM   
Steve Guinn



Posts: 835
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: WV
Status: offline 		If you would like to use 20% oil content and can't find it, get a bottle of castor oil (Byron's Lube Booster and Klotz BeNOL are 2 that I use) and add 2 & 1/2 ounces to 18% fuel to bring the total oil content to 20%. A little extra Castor oil will not do any harm.

_____________________________

"The weather is here, wish you were beautiful."
J. Buffett

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 6

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 7:16:43 PM   
JWN



Posts: 4785
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Florence, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by downunder
JWN...if used correctly an electric starter doesn't harm an engine. But this means with an engine that's ready to start quickly by hand if you want to. You have to be especially careful with a plain bearing engine like the LA's that the shim thrust washer is adequately lubricated before you use the starter. I've seen an LA with a completely frozen crank from misuse of a starter. I hate to think what the piston and liner were like [/QUOTE]

I would imagine the piston and liner were fine since there is zero fore/aft load on those parts. I've seen a number of models which have had LA type engines used in pusher configurations. None ever had a problem.

John

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 7

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 10:49:59 PM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		JWN...in this case the misuse was thinking that spinning over with the starter would draw fuel to the carb. It didn't. So this engine was hammered with no oil for several minutes. It wasn't just the thrust washer that was frozen, the entire crankshaft was seized in the bush from lack of oil. Now imagine what was happening to the piston running an interference fit near the top and scraping what oil remained off the liner.

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 8

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 10:52:25 PM   
JWN



Posts: 4785
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Florence, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by downunder
JWN...in this case the misuse was thinking that spinning over with the starter would draw fuel to the carb. It didn't. So this engine was hammered with no oil for several minutes. It wasn't just the thrust washer that was frozen, the entire crankshaft was seized in the bush from lack of oil. Now imagine what was happening to the piston running an interference fit near the top and scraping what oil remained off the liner. [/QUOTE]

Gotcha. In that case, it sounds like they got exactly what they deserved. Didn't most of us learn that a starter is used for starting an engine? That's kinda what the name implies doesn't it?

John

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 9

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 10:55:22 PM   
Eagle Flyer


 

Posts: 600
Joined: 12/28/2001
From: Ida Grove, IA, USA
Status: offline 		If there is less lube in a fuel mixed by weight then that means you are getting more fuel (alcohol) for longer runs. Six of one or a half dozen of the other.

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 10

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/20/2003 11:03:22 PM   
JWN



Posts: 4785
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Florence, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eagle Flyer
If there is less lube in a fuel mixed by weight then that means you are getting more fuel (alcohol) for longer runs. Six of one or a half dozen of the other. [/QUOTE]

No, it means there is less oil present than most people would expect to be in the fuel. Mixing by weight is a marketing ploy to save a few $'s on the oil which costs far more than methanol. If the nitro is also measured by weight, then your really getting the raw end of the deal since it too weighs more than methanol for a given volume. So, do you really know what's in that jug of store bought fuel?

John

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 11

castor fuel - 6/21/2003 11:56:52 PM   
FrancisPerson


 

Posts: 672
Joined: 12/14/2001
From: Germantown, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Sig fuel comes in 20% oil with 50/50 castor/synth or 20% pure castor.


Francis

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       Post #: 12

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/22/2003 4:56:57 AM   
hauckf


 

Posts: 187
Joined: 3/1/2002
From: Decatur, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Steve Guinn: To increase the oil percent in a gallon of fuel from 18% by volume to 20% by volume you add 3.2 fl. oz of oil to a gallon of fuel, not 2.5 fl oz. I don't care what the table on the Byrons oil bottle says, the correct amount to add is 3.2 fl. oz. The math is simple: 20% * 128 = 23.04 oz oil in the original gallon. Add 3.2 oz. and you now have 26.24 oz oil and a total volume of 131.2 oz in the jug. 23.04/131.2= 20% by volume. Adding 2.5 oz will bump it up to 19.57% by volume.

(in reply to Juice Man)
       Post #: 13

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/23/2003 8:58:14 PM   
Dr Nitro


 

Posts: 162
Joined: 11/12/2002
From: The Great Midwest, USA
Status: offline 		You could try "Cooper's" Control line blends which are high in oil content. He has three different ones.
Looking at his disclosure sheet they are:

5% nitro / 29% all castor
5% nitro / 11.5% synthetic / 11.5% castor
10% nitro / 11.5% synthetic / 11.5% castor

I use and have used the above synthetic / castor blends in many bushing engines, control line, LA series and other 2-strokes, they perform very well. Its (above blends) great ABC / ABN / Lapped Iron engine break in fuel too.

Like mentioned in a previous post, Sig makes a good 50/50 oil blend fuel that would work good too.

Just my two cents guys.

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Dr Nitro

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       Post #: 14

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/23/2003 9:02:23 PM   
Steve Guinn



Posts: 835
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: WV
Status: offline 		I knew that (post #13) was coming.

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"The weather is here, wish you were beautiful."
J. Buffett

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       Post #: 15

Fuel manufacturers. . . - 6/25/2003 1:29:48 AM   
Juice Man


 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/30/2003
From: Bellingham WA
Status: offline 		I think I'll look more into Powermaster and Cooper's blends. . .I've heard good things about them, so they're probably worth a try.

I'll let you guys know how it went when I start up the engine for the first time.

Oh, about the starter hurting the engine. . .I guess I'll use one all the time, and just make sure the engine is cleaned and lubed well before starting. Thanks for clearing that up for me Downunder and JWN.

(in reply to Juice Man)