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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/20/2009 6:15 PM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Well,  I get my resin from a drum, it breaks down to about $19 a gallon that way.  The glass is also fairly inexpensive at about $2 a linear yard for 50" rolls.  It's just my time really and only takes about 18 minutes to fabricate one of these hatches up.....not including waiting for gel to kick off and cleanup.

However I have heard that my next order will increase by $1per gallon making it $20/gallon for laminating resin and $29 for gelcoat.  Only mention that because retail prices for resin and gelcoat average $40+ for resin, and over $50 for gallon of gelcoat if you purchase a gallon at a time. 


< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 7/20/2009 6:18 PM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/20/2009 7:14 PM   
Hesco Racing


 

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Status: offline 		Hope you have some strong cowl locks on that one as she is going to be presurised like mad. You have now made the low pressure into a high pressure. Some vents in the back should help.


Cobus

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/20/2009 9:14 PM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Your one step ahead of me to post, I'm one step ahead of your thoughts.  I was doing this while you were posting about it!

Should have pleanty of flow at this point.  This should do the trick!  Sort of has that Star Wars" look to it....again, just contributes to the name I think




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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/20/2009 9:16 PM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Oh, and Hesco, I'm switching to rare-earth magnets for attaching the canopy.  Trust me, these babys have pleanty of holding power.


< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 7/20/2009 9:17 PM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/20/2009 11:35 PM   
bondobuster


 

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Status: offline 		Luv it. See the hatch lines are smooth and tight now. Superb Scott....

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 2:38 AM   
illiniboater


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamin Hemi

Oh, and Hesco, I'm switching to rare-earth magnets for attaching the canopy.  Trust me, these babys have pleanty of holding power.



Scott,
I may have missed it but where are you getting the magnets? The new hatch looks awesome. Well done!

Billy

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 3:00 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Hey Billy, found them on Ebay.  $12.00 for 20 of the 3/4" size delivered.  Came in 3 days very well packaged. 


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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 3:14 AM   
illiniboater


 

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Status: offline 		Found em. Thanks!

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 3:33 AM   
Dana W


 

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Status: offline 		Very nice Scott . I like the new look .

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 6:35 AM   
Hesco Racing


 

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Status: offline 		PLenty holding power crappy gluing power. Hope they have holes drilled in them. Guys here have tried them and they tend to shear loos from the epoxy. Use to get ones from a boat supplier in UK that had a neat countersunk hole in it and you could bolt it down. RSA rand is just worth **** at the moment so cheaper using o-ring method and in racing conditions much more forgiving on the hatch in that controled flip .

Cobus

Hatch looks great with the cut outs. Man you must have a steady dremmel hand.


< Message edited by Hesco Racing -- 7/21/2009 6:36 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 10:33 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Cobus, I thought about that myself.  I was thinking of filing some texture into the glue area of the magnet for hopefully better "bite".  We'll see once I try it.  Also debating the adhesive to use.  May have to test the holding strength using a few different products.

Thanks for the comments on the cutting.  It takes some patience and the right cutting bits.  I need to invest in a flexable shaft for that Dremmel.  It get's HOT after all tha cutting!  There's a lot of nasty fiberglass dust that is created while doing this.  Want to point out to everybody when doing this dremel work on fiberglass, I always wear a mask and most of the time for larger cutting like this hatch, the shop vac hose is set very close so that it sucks up all the dust as I'm cutting.  You can't see them, but these little fiber dust can quickly fill a work area and you don't know it.


< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 7/21/2009 10:35 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 12:37 PM   
Hesco Racing


 

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Status: offline 		With the amount of hatches you making is it a good idea too make some kind of copy jig which you could use. Too bad they don't make a flush trimming bit for a dremel. This bearing could inspire someting???

http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=bearings&Product_Code=SCB1-8&Category_Code=1-8inch

And the worst is they make even smaller ones. Who has such small hands??

Cobus

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/21/2009 2:50 PM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Thought about it.  May have to design a jig on the CAD system we have at the school I teach at and cut out one in metal with the CNC router.  That would take time and I don't intend to cut anything on the hatches that would go to a customer.  


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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/23/2009 4:10 AM   
nothinbetr2do


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamin Hemi


Should have pleanty of flow at this point.  This should do the trick!  Sort of has that Star Wars'' look to it....again, just contributes to the name I think




the new top looks great. i really like the cut outs, they look very symmetrical. must have taken you awhile. the scoops i cut out on the old top where a pain in the you know what, and didn't turn out as nice as yours. you are good at what you do. i can't wait for saturday to get moving again on this. keep up the great work

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/24/2009 2:24 AM   
Morspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Scott,

nice job on the hatch,

On the subject of magnets I have been able to buy them with a 3mm hole for fixing, this is the link to a nz supplier, he can infact have them custom made to suit requirements.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=3021550

I was thinking though, that a good way to secure these (if you have not got a hole to fix thru)would be to imbed the magnet under a glass laminate. ( or into the lam when moulding up).

Cheers

Gary

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/24/2009 5:50 AM   
bondobuster


 

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Status: offline 		Scott , in the auto and boating industries we use high strength methacrylate products. Lord Adhesives make great products and are very reasonable and it has insane shear strength properties. 3M also makes similar products as does Plexus and a few others. Most are available at autobody supply stores. Heres the link for Lord. Check out product #116. Cheers... http://www.lord.com/Home/ProductsServices/Adhesives/FusorAutomotiveAftermarketProducts/Products/PlasticAdhesives/tabid/3401/Default.aspx

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/24/2009 10:43 PM   
Morspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Scott and Martno1, this goes out to you both as I recall in this thread, a discussion on the merits of spraying pva release as opposed to using a brush or sponge for application.

Personally i prefer spraying this stuff as it definately results in a more uniform finish.

But for those who are not set up with air tools, I just had to share this idea with you both..why not use an atomiser bottle..get the missus to clean all the house windows and use up the bottle of window cleaner and hey presto...a mini portable air compressor and spray gun rolled into one.

Cheers

Gary

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/25/2009 2:51 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		I suppose that may work, however as you know it's suggested that 90 psi be used through a detail or othe automotive gun to create a nice even and fine mist.  I think it would be hard for the most layers to "melt" into a smooth and even layer good enough for creating a nice finish using only a squirt bottle.  It may work in a pinch I guess.  Having the right tools to work with makes all the difference.


< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 7/25/2009 2:56 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/25/2009 4:30 AM   
Hydro Junkie


 

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Status: offline 		What about those aerosol bottles with the spray can top? Would that work or is the coating too thick?

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/25/2009 6:54 AM   
Hesco Racing


 

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Status: offline 		Come on Scott now that you have pulled boats without PVA is it not so much easier. I have found working mostly with epoxy that the PVA sometimes act as a bond and since I only use release wax removing parts is a dream. The mould just has to run in but once it is their parts nearly fall out the mould.

Cobus

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 7/25/2009 11:35 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hesco Racing

Come on Scott now that you have pulled boats without PVA is it not so much easier. I have found working mostly with epoxy that the PVA sometimes act as a bond and since I only use release wax removing parts is a dream. The mould just has to run in but once it is their parts nearly fall out the mould.

Cobus


You are absolutely right Cobus.  Haven't touched my PVA bottle in a few months.  Even for the new hatch mold I never touched the stuff.  Just 6 coats of TR Release Wax, no PVA.  I was going to, since the mold was new and unused, but the owner of TR assured me it would not be necessary.  He was right and once I lifted an edge and hit it with a blast of air from my compressor it popped right out.  The hulls have been releasing very easy.  Since I can't lift any edges on these "finished in the mold" hulls, I just blast a corner with air and the boat literally floats out of the molds.  Couldn't be easier.  Granted my compressor gives me the capability of using a full 180 psi through the hose of needed, not that I have to go that high, although I did for the first release of the new hatch.  Usually I never go over 100 psi for the "release bursts". 

Oh yeah.....haven't touched any of my plastic mold wedges either since I stopped the PVA.  The finishes have been perfect, no dust spots whatsoever.  As I posted in another thread somewhere the finished part should be "customer ready" direct from the mold.  Any more work you have to put into it as far as polishing, or even wetsanded first then polished is only the result of a bad mold preparation and little effort or care for a good finish.  As you've seen in earlier pictures, these molds are glass smooth with a mirror finish.  The product of hours of detail wetsanding and proper polishing and sealing techniques.  This results with the parts pulled from them to be the same.  PVA would only create more work for me in the end.  No way going back to that stuff for releasing a part from a mold. 

Still use it for repairs on models and full scale boats.  It's the only way to assure the gel will harden properly on an already finished hull.  An application of PVA following a gelcoat layer on the outside of a hull will seal the air out and make it harden nicely with out being gummy or sticky.



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