RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!
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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/21/2009 5:32 AM

nvs motorsports

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I like the lable you have on the mold pictures you can make out the name of this cat

Lets see how many on here get it

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/21/2009 6:03 AM

bondobuster

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Hmmm. Two flags also. Luv the global representation....

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/21/2009 9:48 AM

nvs motorsports

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Yes lets hope we dont see a chinese flag on it

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/21/2009 10:30 AM

Dreamin Hemi

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Haha, didn't realize it could be made out....may have to alter that picture a little. Thought I was far enough back.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/21/2009 10:42 AM

nvs motorsports

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Awwwwwwwwww come on you were teasing Scott

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/21/2009 10:59 PM

nothinbetr2do

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wow, your moving right along scott. i haven't check out this thread in a few days, i can't believe how fast your moving. i got the killswitch in today and ordered the motor. i just need to call you and talk exhaust pipes. but for now just keep doing what you do . thanks, tony

< Message edited by nothinbetr2do -- 5/22/2009 1:08 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 3:19 AM

Dreamin Hemi

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Had about an hour once I came home from a visit to my father.

Used a pneumatic cut-off wheel to trim the edges and my belt sander to clean up the edges and make sure that no resin locks itself onto the wood flange frame. Not going to trim all the mess inside the hatch area since I still have to prep the lower hull before molding and definitely do not want it separating before it's time. It's locked in there for now.

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< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/22/2009 3:20 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 3:35 AM

Dreamin Hemi

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Using the same wedges as I did for the hatch, I was easily able to slide these between the fiberglass mold, and the flange frame and work my way around. The other side literally just fell off the flange......perfect! After a quick wipe down, I inspected everything and it looks great!

Notice the alignment tabs that were created using those plastic stopper pieces? Also notice the flange form itself is completely intact.

Next, will build a wooden frame box and glass it in around the flange exterior area for added rigidity of the mold and to prevent any twisting or warping of the mold as time goes on.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 9:07 AM

Hesco Racing

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This thread is like a drug.

I need to see every morning what has happened or else my day wil not be complete.

If it may be asked and as a indicator of how much it actually takes to do this. What kind of cost are you sitting at at present. Even take into acount youre labour at a descent rate.

Cobus

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 11:22 AM

Dreamin Hemi

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Glad you are able to get your morning fix today.

Never thought of that yet.....but I'll add it up so far. In American dollars of course!

I'll detail everything out (will probably have to edit since I always forget stuff).

Particle board for flange construction..................$25.00
3/32 basswood for actual flange.........................$35.00
Clay............................................................... $6.00
Gelcoat (portion I used on flange).......................$10.00
PVA (portion)..................................................$15.00
Epoxy and other glues.......................................$25.00
Fiberglass mat (will probably use 15 total yards)...$110.00
Fiberglass cloth (3 yards)...................................$15.00
Resin (5 gallons)..............................................$100.00 (this is my cost broken down per gallon from the drum, typically laminating resin could be $40/gallon typical retail)
Black tooling gelcoat (1 gallon)............................$75.00
Misc shop rags/razor knives...etc.........................$15.00

Total expected expenditures..............................$450.00+/- US

Labor, you figure your own labor rate multiplied by about 40 to 60 hours, around here a good glass tech gets paid $25.00 to $30.00/hr.

Probably forgot something, but at least you get the idea.

Keep in mind that these prices DO NOT reflect the actual cost of the hull, or especially shipping in my case (from Australia) which added almost $400.00 to the bottom line. I also did not include the actual hull cost! As you can see, not an inexpensive project. Just hope the return on this investment makes it worth the while

.

Let's make this easier to figure out......

My costs for materials alone to build this are about $450
A typical hull of this size might cost about $300-$350 retail....sometimes more
So, materials and the donor hull/plug will run about $800 including actual labor costs if somebody else does this for you, potentially $1,800.00, giving you a total cost that's valued at $2,600. Add in my shipping costs and now you're at $3,000.00 value just to build the mold of a hull that already had significant expendatures and time getting it built.

Now realistically, the labor is out of the equation for NVS and myself as we each did our own labor.....at least I know I voluntered my own time.

< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/23/2009 11:30 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 4:04 PM

Hesco Racing

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And you are so far only halfway

Now one can realy get a feel why a boat costs what it does and why people hate it when it just gets splashed.

Bet you did not think it was going to be this much.

Cobus

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 4:25 PM

Dreamin Hemi

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The costs I presented were for a completed mold, and are estimated. Since I already have the materials, I know what the expenses are to completion.

Once again just to reiterate....although this is not my own design, the right steps were taken working with the origional designer/manufacturer, NVS Motorsports, to be an authorized manufacturer/distributor of these hulls in the US. With an agreement between myself and NVS, a royalty fee will be paid to him on a per hull basis. All credit to the design is given to him and the manufacturing credit given to myself. The glassed in label inside each hull will show this along with a serial number that we both will be tracking.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 4:26 PM

c-cat

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Forgot consumables, acetone, brushes, rollers(covers), gloves etc. Definatly top notch glasswork though. Your a laminatin' animal!

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 4:34 PM

Hesco Racing

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Stil a lot of money.

Like c-cat says your an animal. And the knowlidge that is gained by what you show us is invaluable. Just promise one thing you will never stop. Make anything and show us how. thats what we want.

Cobus

"Just a junky for knowlidge"

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 4:53 PM

Dreamin Hemi

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Animal???...lol

Geez guys.....I'm just doing what I enjoy.... But thanks for tooting my horn!

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 5:27 PM

twindaddy66

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Scott, I hate to say it, but I see expansion in the future. Your garage can only handle but so much!

I think I see instructional videos coming soon as well...

Ya never know.....

T-Daddy

PS: these threads are like wine...they just keep getting better!!

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 6:14 PM

Dreamin Hemi

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T-Daddy, more truth to that than you think. Michelle and I already have the house on the market and moving hopefully to northern Delaware. The house you came to was hers before we met. Yeah, that 2.5 car garage just dosen't cut it for me.....heck, you saw how stuffed I was on your last visit! Soon there will be more additions of even more shop equipment due to my dad's situation...he was also a carpenter for a long time. Have always had acreage and a pole barn in each of the 4 other homes I've owned before she came around. Along with a larger home, I plan to immediately build another 40' by 40' or slightly larger detached shop on the property.....now if I can only find land on a huge pond, I would be in heaven!.....let's see, boat shop AND testing grounds.....hmmmm. Like you said, who knows. Just having fun for now doing the best with the space I have to work with.

< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/22/2009 6:16 PM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 6:33 PM

c-cat

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Do you think you'll get a one peice laminate on the parts? A twill should drape nicely, even without infusion/ vacume bagging. Can't wait for the build post. My reference to "animal" was muppet based. LOL...

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/22/2009 7:20 PM

Dreamin Hemi

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A one piece laminate will be easy with this design. Eventually when parts are ready to be made, they will be joined in the mold wet and glassed together. I plan to experiment with different weights of fabrics to find a good balance of strength and weight. The DCS boat I already make has a good combination of materials that I'm happy with, will try that recipe first.

Also the other reason the flanges are made wide so I had the option to vacume bag if I wanted to. Was hoping to build a carbon fiber hull sometime soon, just been waiting for an excuse to use my bagger.

< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/22/2009 7:43 PM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/23/2009 12:20 AM

twindaddy66

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I hear ya Scott! Man would that be a dream...new house, massive shop AND a pond to test on....

Best of luck to you my friend, I hope everything works out for ya. I wish I was in a position to take on some neat projects like that...with my luck, Uncle Sam will try and move me across the country as soon as i set up shop....It's going to be bad enough dissassembling my train tables! 3 - 4x8 tables loaded with train stuff.

T-Daddy

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/23/2009 4:16 AM

nvs motorsports

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Just thought id pipe in on costs when i designed the boat and built the plug then built green mold to build test hull so i could see how it handled then modified the hull and turned it into a plug to remold as a final all up cost amounted to about $7500 australian dollars

Now when you see all the big brand manufacturers design their boats they do similar its a huge investment an even more the reason why people who copy a not very well liked so to speak

Now by the time this cat gets manufactured in the states add my cost an Scotts into the equation realistically its a $10000 US venture by the time you add all the hours both Scott and i have put into it

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/25/2009 7:15 AM

Hesco Racing

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Starting to get withdrawel systems. Third day and no new info and pictures.

Cobus

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/25/2009 2:46 PM

Dreamin Hemi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hesco Racing

Starting to get withdrawel systems. Third day and no new info and pictures.

Cobus

OK, OK!!!! Here ya go then. lol.

Had to wait for the mold to completely cure before the is next part. If the resins are still curing, the stand/frame pattern may transfer through.

Dosen't matter really here as I've already decided to make the frame around the wide flange anyway. Using particle board, I built a simple box frame. Held with wood glue and using my 16 gauge air nailer fastened the ends together, making sure they were square and perfectly flat. A quick test fit and looks OK!

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< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/25/2009 2:52 PM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/25/2009 2:53 PM

nothinbetr2do

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wow, what a trooper. it's a holiday weekend here in the states, and your still at it. thanks for up-dating the thread

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/25/2009 3:01 PM

Dreamin Hemi

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Ready for more glass work. As seen before, I mixed up a potion of my cabosil/resin mix and placed a bead across the area where the frame will be sitting. Placed the box frame directly over the bead, pressing down lightly makes it spooge out filling any gaps ensuring a good bond.

Added more of the paste mixture to the exterior of the wood as a fillet for more strength and assist with the 8oz fiberglass tape that's used to keep things strong. This is also the same method I use for glassing engine rails into the hulls.

With the leftover resin, I sealed the rest of the wood to keep things from twisting over the years due to moisture. This will sit until later this evening when I begin prepping the lower portion of this catamaran hull for molding.

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