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All Forums >> RC Boats >> Speed - RC Gas Boats >> Duplicating or "copying" an existing hull...ETHICALLY!
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Duplicating or "copying" an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/12/2009 3:53 AM  1 votes
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		A post started a few days ago asking how to "copy" a hull....http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8747694/tm.htm That thread was looking for a easy one off means of copying. I thought I'd share a current project and show how I prefer to do the same thing, except for creating a flawless mold of an existing hull that will be used over and over again. Harold has started to mold his catamaran so you will be able to see various techniques of molding as you follow each of the "mold build" threads. This thread is in the GAS FORUMS since the size of this hull is more popular with the gassers. The details of this particular hull will be released at a later time, however I will say it was designed (most of it at least) half a world away and I have been fortunate enough to acquire this catamaran by permission for the sole purpose of manufacturing these on this side of the pond. There are several means of "coping", if you will.....however in order to build a quality hull, you need to start with not only a good parting plane, but you need an absolutely perfect plug. This hull has been altered for a tighter fit of the canopy, also extensively block wet sanded eliminating all minute flaws and blemishes......the plug is now perfect with a mirror shine. Rushing to get it done is not an option in my book, quality products take time and patience.

< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/16/2009 7:33 PM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 4:01 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Starting off with a perfectly flat surface, I set up the hull on a building board....5/8" particle board. Begin with a frame and work from one end to the other using the same 5/8" particle board fitted snug against the original lip, or another good parting point. I spaced it 3/32" below to allow for the top layer that will be the actual flange to rest on.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 4:06 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		At this point I can begin adding the flange material.....3/32" birch. It's solid, yet able to make a slight curve very easily. I keep adding blocks to support the flange material against the hulls seam.

Keep in mind that this hull can be easily lifted straight up and is not attached to the framework at all.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 4:15 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Here I'm working on the front of this catamaran, more curves to tend to and adding blocks cut on my miter saw keeps the flange square as it curves up and inward. Trial and error to get the wood to follow the curve and stay tight against the sides of the hull.

Notice that I'm only using wood glue for this part. Once the upper hull is molded, I need to be able to break away parts to release the flange backer. Looks like a little too much glue was used here!

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< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/12/2009 4:16 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 4:21 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Here's how it sits today. Not bad for a few hours work!



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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 4:24 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Close up's of the gap, also proving this hull is just resting on the framework.

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< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/12/2009 4:25 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 7:27 AM   
nvs motorsports


 

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Status: offline 		Gee that hull looks familiar

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 10:46 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nvs motorsports

Gee that hull looks familiar

It should! LOL I see you found the copy of the decal, glad you like it! At least here you can see the progress.

Will work on the front end flange hopefully this evening.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/12/2009 12:39 PM   
nvs motorsports


 

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Status: offline 		You doing a fine job on the mold there you going to put flange locks on also so the top and bottom match together
Also that Riviera hat i sent you may be worth a bit soon company just went into recievership over here

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 12:46 PM   
jtdesign


 

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Status: offline 		Scott this is exactly the type of mold info I've been looking for, to mold a scratch build I want to copy. thanks

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull - 5/12/2009 1:09 PM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		That is the exact point of this thread. Just because this is a glass hull that's being duplicated, dosen't mean the same rules won't apply to a scratch build. Haven't been able to ever locate a thread or website that shows the "behind the scenes" story yet, figured I'd share.

I did the same to a scratch build of mine a couple years ago, ended up making many of them, still do!

Just need to make sure your parting dams won't create a part that locks itself into the mold! . Glad to see you found what you're looking for . I'll take this thread to the removal of the master copy since that's all I intend to share here. Another thread showing a finished hull being fitted out with hardware. Just a little hint on that one.....twin inline.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/12/2009 6:17 PM   
stoddy



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Status: online 		will you explain a bit more on parting dams ??

very good thread by the way.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/12/2009 8:49 PM   
twindaddy66



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Status: offline 		Nice work Scott. If it turns out anything like the DS, it will be top shelf work.

Cheers,
T-Daddy

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/12/2009 9:57 PM   
jtdesign


 

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Status: offline 		scott I have looked every where like you said for this info to. and I have wracked my brain on how to buil a plug with this type of parting dam. I have seen pic's of a plug for a 50' mystic top half that was milled with a machine. sitting on a box. and I have built many hulls from scratch, but kept thinking "how do I build half a hull" twice (top & bottom) and get them to match perfectly. short of cutting one boat in half, I can see how that would end up. lol

to be honest I feel pretty stupid that I didn't think of this myself! I mean this realy not that complex.
Thank you again

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/12/2009 10:05 PM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Your welcome. This information just isn't out there anywhere else. I'll add it to my site once the thread is finished.

You'll see the stages and progress of a mold from something like this as the next few days pass. In summary I'm using that parting dam to create a flange. Once it's glassed over and hardened, I'll remove the flange only, rotate the plug (with the glass layers and all) and begin to glass the bottom over once it's fully prepped using the (now) glass flange from the top as my new flange to mold against on the bottom! A little trim and separating the plug reveals a perfectly aligned mold that will produce parts that will be assembled together while still inside the mold. No chances for misalignment at all using the method I'm doing. Keep following and you'll see what I mean.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/13/2009 1:15 AM   
nothinbetr2do


 

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Status: offline 		awesome project hemi, i can't wait to see it finished. it was great talking with you, keep up the great work. i'm looking forward to coming over

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/13/2009 1:23 AM   
slider46


 

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Status: offline 		Scott, I'm going to follow this thread to the bitter end, I'm glad your sharing this information with us all. I have an idea how it is done but seeing it step by step will get me building a mold of my version of the maxcat from Marcel with complete confidence.... I'll be watching for sure, Great thread

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/13/2009 2:12 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Thanks Tony, good speaking to you as well. Look forward to your visit sometime soon.

Slider, hopefully the end isn't too "bitter"...lol Glad you are enjoying the thread so far. There are several different ways to get this done, but being a shop instructor I have to do it the best way I know how...may take a little longer however hopefully you are able to get the idea and hopefully spin off from there. Good luck with YOUR cat project. Lots of MaxCats out there, makes for some interesting reading. Had to prepare my home to be visited by real estate agents tomorrow so had to halt progress for one night.



< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/13/2009 2:21 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/13/2009 3:06 AM   
nvs motorsports


 

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Status: offline 		Im with slider46 on this im just as keen to follow this post even though ive already done this boat good to see another approach on the same item all plug and mold makers have there little secrets
And i like the title of the post how it has the word ETHICALLY in it
Just to let some people know this hull is a prototype currently only 6 in existence (currently)
I have 2 in new build stage,dreaminghemi has 1, other 5 were test boats of which 2 were destroyed and 3 sold as second hand
I will put a build post up when hemi has finished his molds
Dont want to steal your fire so to speak

< Message edited by nvs motorsports -- 5/13/2009 3:27 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/13/2009 4:43 PM   
apache 56


 

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great post also ,, good work guys , i hav a thunder cat 52 inch hull from the states (its glassed up to heavy, i was goin to copy and make my own mould from it and buld a lighter hull or two . now seein this thred ill defenatly look into it more.
great work


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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/14/2009 2:12 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Had a couple good hours to play in the shop this evening. Most of the night went to replacing my hot water heater .
Here the pictures just speak for themselves. Using the right equipment really helps with the curves. Love my scroll saw....still lots of trial and error. I like to use a sanding drum attached to my drill press for detail trimming...works every time.

Had to also add bracing to keep the flange sturdy, after all, I'm only using 3/32" birch for the flange molding.

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/14/2009 2:19 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		A few more of the completed flange.....very extra wide. The hull still slides right out!

Last pic is daddy's little helper Oh yeah, he discovered a mud puddle just before this was taken

Next I'll prep the flanges for gelcoat and add probably half spheres as alignment pins just before I cover it with more gelcoat and prep as I did with the plug.

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< Message edited by Dreamin Hemi -- 5/14/2009 2:20 AM >

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/14/2009 3:01 AM   
Dana W


 

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Status: online 		Nice job Scott . Looks like it's going to be a pretty nice cat .

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/14/2009 10:33 AM   
Dreamin Hemi



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Status: online 		Thank you Dana, it's different that most I've seen out there and I guess that's what attracted me the most to it. NVS has had some really good speed numbers lately so we'll see!

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RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY! - 5/14/2009 9:49 PM   
nothinbetr2do


 

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Status: offline 		great progress, thanks for up-dating the thread. i'm very excited to see it moving along. the more i do, the more i want one. i started a thread asking about a mounting system for my motor, and got a few replies. hopefully it will work out. i also posted pics of my motor, if you want to see it. the thread is here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8763878/tm.htm thanks again dreamin hemi

< Message edited by nothinbetr2do -- 5/14/2009 9:52 PM >

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