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caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/19/2003 6:40:47 PM   
Fitz21



Posts: 91
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Jacksonville, FL,
Status: offline 		I am totally clueless! I have the setup instructions that came with the bird sitting next to the setup procedures in my 9c manual. I sure could use some help figuring it all out. I fly airplanes and this is my first helo. I apologize if this should have been posted in the beginner forum. Does anyone have a step by step setup/ alignment/ procedures that will work for my equipment? I have the standard ARF with 401 gyro and i plan on installing FMA copilot. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
       Post #: 1

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/20/2003 11:48:34 AM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		i posted a thread but it wont help you with the FMA autopilot. The FMA doesnt work with EMS, which is how most of us have set up our CAL30's.

< Message edited by Vortexgen -- Jun 20 2003 6:53AM >

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 2

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/20/2003 5:02:14 PM   
Fitz21



Posts: 91
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Jacksonville, FL,
Status: offline 		thanks,
can you tell me how to locate the thread you posted? I am new to all this news group stuff. Also found a great setup for the copilot on the beginners post. I would asssume that once i set the bird up correctly, i will then install the copilot and adjust as required by the instructions.

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 3

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/21/2003 11:43:06 AM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		here is the thread, but once again, it wont help you much because it is intended for EMS (electronic mixing, 120deg swash) setup. The FMA cannot be used for EMS, you have to have one servo for PITCH, one for ROLL, and one for ELEVATOR operating independantly.

[URL]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=715366[/URL]

You have to follow the MMS instructions in the caliber manual.
Im working on better instructions and will post a web page hopefully today..

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 4

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/21/2003 8:35:16 PM   
Fitz21



Posts: 91
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Jacksonville, FL,
Status: offline 		I have set up the heli using mms so i can use the copilot. Since i already fly airplanes, I have the 9CAP radio.

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 5

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/25/2003 4:41:48 AM   
Fitz21



Posts: 91
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Jacksonville, FL,
Status: offline 		anyone have any ideas on using FRS vice RRS? Manual states RRS for training modewith training bar. I have no idea what these terms mean. I set the bird up utilizing RRS, but the only way i could figure out to make this work was to move the ball to the other position (according to the manual) and then rotate the main rotor grip 180 degress so the pitch rod would fit. Was this right? What does this mean to me in terms of stability for a beginner? The manual also states the pitch rod should have 0mm gap. where do i go from here? If all this is correct, then i would assume only thing left is setting up the gyro. Any tricks out there?

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 6

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/25/2003 7:34:12 AM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		You can set up the rotor head two ways on the caliber 30.
1. FRS (front link-grip system)
2. RRS (rear link-grip system)
- This offers a choice of the mechanical mixing of the rotor head to provide either positive delta mixing (FRS) or negative delta mixing (RRS)
- The delta mixing will either decrease (RRS/negative) or increase (FRS/positive) the effect of the blade flapping motions.
- blades move on 3 planes, pitch, lead/lag, and flap.
- pitch is angular changes from the collective inputs.
- Lead/lag is the blade pivoting fore and aft from the main bolts (these bolts should never be that tight that the blades cannot lead/lag)
- Flapping is where the blades rise and fall, or seesaw.

-As the blade flaps up (due to increased lift on the advancing blade in a gust, or roll, or other acrobatic manuever, and termed "dissymmetry of lift" the RRS will oppose (by mechanical mixing) the flap up condition and retain helicopter stability.
- this is great for hovering, but not for acrobatics.

-On the other hand, the RRS, will add to the blade flap condition, and may require opposite cyclic to keep the helicopter stable.

- RRS is apparently better for beginners as it makes the helicopter about 70% more stable than when set up as FRS.

- The ARF version these days comes setup as FRS.

- FRS is still very stable for beginners and you will find that the vast majority of caliber guys keep the factory setup of FRS, regardless of their skill level.

- Stability is rarely a problem in a well built caliber, normally pilot inputs make them fly a bit erratic, which can be reduced for beginners by setting dual rates on the cyclic to 70%.

- The physical difference between FRS and RRS is that the pitch links are attached to the bladegrips leading edges in FRS, and trailing edges if setup as RRS, and the second position on the mixing arms is used.

- Controlled flight is very possible in either system, its simply a question of a little more stability vs agility.

- I believe that the caliber rotor head is designed to have zero delta, but in any dissymmetry of lift condition, as the blades flap, it will either be reduced or increased. this is the option that RRS and FRS gives caliber owners.

- Other helicopters call it a Head Flip mod.



So..., im not sure what you mean by "BALL to the other position", but you are correct in that to swap between FRS and RRS, you have to rotate the bladegrips 180 degrees.

In regard to the 0mm gap between the two rod ends that form the pitch link, I think its better to set the pitch links so that when the collective stick is in the half/50%/hover position, the main rotor blade angles are approximately +6 degrees.

maybe with RRS it is close to 0mm.

These will need to be changed again at the flying field to track the blades correclty (if required).

the gaps in mine are about 4-5mm. (using RRS)

Your getting deep into it now!!!! I kept it basic for non-engineering types.

still workning on the gyro setup....

< Message edited by Vortexgen -- Jun 25 2003 5:27AM >

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 7

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/25/2003 8:58:39 PM   
Fitz21



Posts: 91
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Jacksonville, FL,
Status: offline 		I really appreciate your explanation. So much clearer now. As far as the "ball to the other position", I didn't know what the correct name was, so i was referring to the pitch link rod end that connects to the mixing arm. The connector on the mixing arm had to be moved to the second position. From your last post, I am going to go back to FRS and set the pitch to +6 degrees. . Is it wise to go ahead and install a governor or wait until one becomes familiar with the flight characteristics as well as being able to just fly the bird without crashing?

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 8

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/25/2003 9:51:57 PM   
dporter


 

Posts: 41
Joined: 4/24/2003
From: Sheppard AFB, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Vortex, I thought the Caliber was a non-flapping head design? When you refer to the flapping blades, do you mean that the paddles flap, or the actual blades? If it is the blades, how do they flap if they are rigid in the head?

I have a Concept 32 where both the blades are movable, but my Caliber does not have this feature.

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 9

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/27/2003 12:07:33 PM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I believe all helicopters must have some ability for the blades to be able to flap.

You are quite right, the caliber has a NON-FLAPPING HEAD, however, flapping is still achieved by the calibers FIXED SPINDLE HEAD.

Both the paddles and the main blades will flap.

On the caliber 30, the blades achieve flapping by the seesaw design of the fixed spindle rotor head.
Look at the exploded view of the rotor head to see the following.

1. The spindle shaft is used to join both blades, via blade grips, together as one unit ( a big see saw)
2. the pivotting point for the Blades to seesaw is actually the two seesaw Dampers. CA3008, allowing the advancing blade to flap up while the retreating blade flaps down (seesawing)
3. The flybar also has a seesawing design, more noticeable, allowing the PADDLES to flap.
4. There are various threads about the function and affects of the degradation of the main blade seesaw dampers, particularly in cold weather, subsequently kyosho offer harder seesaw dampers for cold weather usage.

The flapping of the blades is a normal aerodynamic principle, as advancing blades will have more lift and flap up. The same principle exists in adding rudder to an aircraft. One wing moves forward on the Yaw axis, generating more lift, and the secondary effect is for the aircraft to roll.

The helicopter blades simply form a "rotory wing".

The caliber FRS and RRS options affect the flapping of the main blades by mechanical mixing.

Hope this explains how they are still able to FLAP. if not, hold the mast, grab a blade, and pull it up. The resistance is in the seesaw dampers (they should be nice and tight, keeping the head relatively rigid)

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 10

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/27/2003 12:22:44 PM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		To keep this all in perspective,

in a hover in no wind, there is no advancing or retreating blade, they are spinning at the same relative air speeds and lift is the same on all angles of the disc (rotory wing).

if a gust of wind hits it from any angle, then one side of the disc (rotory wing) is advancing, while the other is retreating.

The advancing blades will create more lift and flap up, the helicopter will tilt away from the wind.

The RC pilot adds cyclic to correct this, and keep the helicopter level.

FRS requires more cyclic as the flap up was enhanced.
RRS requires less cyclic as the flap up was reduced. (mechanical mixing) hence more stable but less agile.

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 11

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 6/30/2003 8:54:47 PM   
Fitz21



Posts: 91
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Jacksonville, FL,
Status: offline 		Fired up the bird yesterday to start breaking in the engine. The rotors spun up just fine however, I noticed that the best i could get out of the engine was at half throttle. At this setting, the bird became light on the skids. My question is: Shouldnt half throttle be around hovering speed? Do i need to increase the pitch of the blades? I set the pitch according to the instructions which stated to set the pitch arm at 1.5mm for FRS. Vortex, you said yours was around 4-5mm. I also noticed that as i increased throttle above 50%, the rotor seemed to slow down( I dont know if this is possible, but it is just what i think is going on, i/e maybe clutch?) I know the engine is not running quite right because i am running it very rich while i break it in.

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 12

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 7/2/2003 7:28:55 AM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		hi fitz21.
What engine are you running, and howw many turns on the main needle is it set at?

the only adjustable links are the pitch links, however depending on the distance from the servo center to the ball link (i.e the servo horn distance) the links may be different to the manual.
I had my ball links on the outer hole of the servo horns i was using which was about 12-14mm i think. The manual asks for 10-11 (from memory - manual not handy)

Anyway, the best way to check is with a pitch guage that center stick (hover) = 6 degrees positive pitch.

Modify the pitch curve in your transmitter now that everything is set up, from 0-25-50-75-100.

I posted a thread on this a while ago, I'll try and find it.

If you dont have a pitch guage or tacho, or heli experience this could be difficult. If you know someone that flies helis, they can probably finish this part of the setup just by listening and flying the chopper to see how it responds through the pitch curve.

Either way, most probable cause is too low rotor/engine spped for the pitch you want, and increasing the collective (asking for more pitch) is just making it harded. Like driving a car up a steep hill in 4th gear, then selecting 5th gear.

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 13

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 7/2/2003 7:47:34 AM   
Vortexgen


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Fortitude Valley, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		here is the link to the thread, see my response to damiles questions. I think that there is another thread from him after he set up the pitch correctly, his engine would not generate enough power, because his throttle curve didnt match the pitch.


remember, the reason we say start your setup at 0 - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 is so that your servos will have full throws. This for example may equal pitch changes from -15 to +15 degrees. As a beginner, you may only want 0 to 9 degrees. But as you advance, you will want to extend your pitch curves. subesequently you may end up with a pitch curve like 30 - 40 - 50 - 65 - 80 (example only!!) hope you see the need for using the full range during setup.

link.......

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=852493]

(in reply to Fitz21)
       Post #: 14

caliber 30 / futaba 9c help please. - 7/2/2003 7:57:19 AM   
randy41



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From: Charlestown, IN, USA
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