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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/27/2009 10:33 PM   
swathdiver



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Unless one already has brushless electronics that would considerably up the cost of the tank for little or no gain over what's already been accomplished using brushed motors and reduction gears. Don't let me dissuade anyone from trying if I seem a little negative. The hobby didn't advance without people NOT listening to conventional wisdom and trying other things!

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/29/2009 3:50 AM   
Dongskie



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ORIGINAL: swathdiver
The strongest motors you can run with stock Heng Long TK-RX13 board is the Jamara 480 HS PRO motors with a fan to cool the heatsink. Passive methods will not work. The most reliable method is Graupner Speed400/Black Capped Suntechs (fan cooling) motors coupled with a 3-1 gearbox of which there are now several to choose from. I have a gearbox calculator with most of the popular ones listed where you can plug in your info and see how fast your tank would run.


I perfectly agree:



It's currently installed in my Bulldog and it sprints like a drag car lol!


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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/29/2009 4:07 AM   
Dongskie



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How fast do you guys want to go? Black Capped Suntechs running through a stock gearbox on a Tiger sized sprocket will get you 2.5mph. A 12-tooth pinion will give you 3.0mph. Speed400s will be even faster.


Swath you are an inspiration!!

Here is a Graupner 400 7.2v and an installed 12t pinion by Impact Upgrades... my Bulldog runs like a mad dog lol

As you can see on the top right corner of the photo are my Bulldog sprockets



< Message edited by Dongskie -- 5/29/2009 4:09 AM >

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/29/2009 6:14 AM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Dongskie, according to my calculator your setup should net you about 2.5mph too with the smaller walker sprocket. Your final drive ratio will decrease to 32.7-1 versus stock 39-1. Slight loss of torque possibly but she'll run nice!

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/30/2009 2:54 PM   
philipat


 

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Status: offline 		That's awesome.  I've been planning to do that with my Bulldog.  Nice to see someone has already tried what I was thinking about doing.  Have you done any speed trials to confirm Swathy's calculations?  Have you noticed the slight loss in torque...like running in grass or going uphill?

Impact gears...as in the same folks that make the tracks?

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/30/2009 4:09 PM   
Alan123


 

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Status: offline 		Today I put crawler motors into my Leo2, just for the hell of it.

They were Venom Fireball 50 turn motors.

Anyway the Leo2 is of course much slower  but really powerful in all types of terrain at very low speeds, no more leap turns or stalling. I am hoping the panther will be the same when I get the new motors I have ordered and installed them.

An engine change in a Leo is really quick too as you dont not have to take the gearboxes out to do it, the motors just slip in longways.

Will try race motors next and see how they go, should have more power at all speeds due to the greater efficientcy plus a faster top end too.

Cheers

AL




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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/30/2009 8:16 PM   
Dongskie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Dongskie, according to my calculator your setup should net you about 2.5mph too with the smaller walker sprocket. Your final drive ratio will decrease to 32.7-1 versus stock 39-1. Slight loss of torque possibly but she'll run nice!


Thanks Swathdiver... by the way, I run on 8.4v

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/31/2009 1:23 AM   
philipat


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dongskie


quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Dongskie, according to my calculator your setup should net you about 2.5mph too with the smaller walker sprocket. Your final drive ratio will decrease to 32.7-1 versus stock 39-1. Slight loss of torque possibly but she'll run nice!


Thanks Swathdiver... by the way, I run on 8.4v


HL electronics can handle 8.4V?

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/31/2009 2:01 AM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Is that the rated capacity of the battery or the fully charged state of a 7.2v stick pack?

If you measure off a 20 foot section of road and get a stopwatch you can do a timed run and tell us how fast she went.

In my personal tests I averaged the results of 3 runs with a running start.

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/31/2009 7:33 AM   
Dongskie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Is that the rated capacity of the battery or the fully charged state of a 7.2v stick pack?

If you measure off a 20 foot section of road and get a stopwatch you can do a timed run and tell us how fast she went.

In my personal tests I averaged the results of 3 runs with a running start.


My battery is a 7-cell / 8.4volts / 1100mah, 2/3rds A size pack.

8.4v 1100mah

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 5/31/2009 4:32 PM   
YHR



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Status: offline 		Swathdriver is correct in that I added another gear to the stock gear train. This has loads of torque and the speed is good. The downside is they do tend to be noisy.(Its a crap shoot. Every tank I own has this conversion, and about half of them run smooth and quiet, and the other half smooth and noisy. I have spent hours trying to quiet the loud ones, and have failed). So I understand someone wanting silky smooth quiet gears. The quiet ones are just plain nicer to drive.

I have a couple of the Asiatam gearboxes, and they are very quiet, and I really appreciate them for this. I have a couple of conversion boxes that are as good as this, so I know it can happen. Just nothing I could guarantee.

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 6/1/2009 4:44 AM   
WhiteWolf McBride


 

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Thought of using those kiddy craft foam sheets as insulation in a containment box? I've seen packets of 40 or so mini-sheets (just under 6" x 4") in the 'Dollarama' stores. That or Michaels craft stores if you want adhesive-backed or plain ones (8.5" x 11") I've used the stuff for padding assorted things, and if you need more thickness, just use multiple layers!

Just a random thought...

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 6/3/2009 9:37 AM   
Alan123


 

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Status: offline 		The LOSI mini rock crawler motors have arrived and are way too small.

Back to the drawing board.

Strange that there does not seem to be any crawler motors in the 380/480 size range.

Cheers

Alan


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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 6/3/2009 4:18 PM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		After wracking my brain I remembered some motor terminology to do a quick search. This is what I found:

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mfa-re385.html

This is a 5-Pole motor which seems very similar to our white capped suntechs. I think the Suntechs and Speed400s we use are all 3-Pole motors. 5-Pole should offer lots more torque.

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 6/3/2009 4:38 PM   
shenlonco



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan123

The LOSI mini rock crawler motors have arrived and are way too small.

Back to the drawing board.

Strange that there does not seem to be any crawler motors in the 380/480 size range.

Cheers

Alan


the ones i said to get are 380 size...they make 3 types this one is the lowest RPM version

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVDV1&P=Z


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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 6/3/2009 5:24 PM   
RCCOMMAND



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ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Al, that sounds like the same gearbox used in the Stug. If it is, the shafts should be the same. Where's The Blitz? Phil, do you know if they use the same gearbox?


You're correct in that they're the same gearbox (low profile); however, the difference is the output (axle) shaft.  The Jag uses the longer length axle - same as the Pershing/Bulldog gearboxes.

Somewhere else in this thread the pitch of the pinion was questioned...yes, it is a 48p.

Bill


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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 6/3/2009 7:23 PM   
Alan123


 

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I ordered some DuraTrax CC-5000 380-Sized Motor w/Connectr Cliff Clmbr.

I hope the 5000 figure refers to the revs. Could not find any info on the difference between the 5000, 8500 and 11000 motors.

Will have to wait a bit longer now and then the experimentation can go on.

Even allowing for shipping, things are a lot more cheaper in the USA than they are here, you guys have got it good!

Cheers

AL


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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 1:53 PM   
Alan123


 

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Status: offline 		Well I got my truck pull type motors from Duratrax and they were a complete flop, not only was the tank slow, it was also powerless too.

As Swathdiver suggested I have simply installed a HL 3/1 Flat gearbox in my Panther and it runs just great, even on the short can 370 motors they come with. So thats the end of that experiment the gear box is the most important part regardless of what motor you use.

I have not got my hands on one yet however I believe generally that 5 pole motors are more suitable for tanks than the 3 pole motors they commonly come with. However I do not think the difference is so great that it is worth changing the motors out unless they happen to be defective.

As an aside I took the 540 truck pull motors out of my Leo2a6 (as it was slow but no more powerful than it already was, similar to the experience with the Duratrax motors above) and installed GTR3 Race motors in it, now it is faster across all throttle ranges with no great loss in power and seems to run longer due to the better quality and efficiency of the motors.

Cheers

AL

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 2:45 PM   
shenlonco



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Status: offline 		I bet this would give it some speed and power these have ferrite magnets they give motors much more power.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWK45&P=7

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 4:05 PM   
Alan123


 

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Status: offline 		No, please don't start me off again I have wasted too much money already that would have been better invested in gearboxes

AL

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 5:59 PM   
philipat


 

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I bet this would give it some speed and power these have ferrite magnets they give motors much more power.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWK45&P=7


Have you already tried these...or have any RPM data that could be plugged into Swathdiver's spreadsheet?

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 7:15 PM   
shenlonco



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quote:

ORIGINAL: shenlonco

I bet this would give it some speed and power these have ferrite magnets they give motors much more power.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWK45&P=7


Have you already tried these...or have any RPM data that could be plugged into Swathdiver's spreadsheet?

HI no data on the motors and i have not tried them but i did try there bigger 600S size motor and the magnets are the same type and they where very strong and the motor had gobs of tourqe!

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 9:19 PM   
philipat


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shenlonco


quote:

ORIGINAL: philipat


quote:

ORIGINAL: shenlonco

I bet this would give it some speed and power these have ferrite magnets they give motors much more power.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWK45&P=7


Have you already tried these...or have any RPM data that could be plugged into Swathdiver's spreadsheet?

HI no data on the motors and i have not tried them but i did try there bigger 600S size motor and the magnets are the same type and they where very strong and the motor had gobs of tourqe!


Did you use those in HL tanks or a different application? If in the tanks, how did the electronics hold up?


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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 10:35 PM   
shenlonco



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quote:

ORIGINAL: philipat


quote:

ORIGINAL: shenlonco


quote:

ORIGINAL: philipat


quote:

ORIGINAL: shenlonco

I bet this would give it some speed and power these have ferrite magnets they give motors much more power.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWK45&P=7


Have you already tried these...or have any RPM data that could be plugged into Swathdiver's spreadsheet?

HI no data on the motors and i have not tried them but i did try there bigger 600S size motor and the magnets are the same type and they where very strong and the motor had gobs of tourqe!


Did you use those in HL tanks or a different application? If in the tanks, how did the electronics hold up?


Sorry never run them just was a thought... also i hope you guy's know that you will get much more power from your tanks if you first throw the stock battery out in the garbage because it's basically trash..... and replace it with a good pack.... I used my good GP packs in my tanks that i use in my 1/10 RC's and what a BIG differance the tank has much more power and punch and also moves faster!

A good battery will make a huge improvement and i am not talking those cheap e-bay batteries or cheapo Venom packs .... I am talking good GP packs or ones on par with the quality of GP cells.

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RE: Truck Pull crawler motors in 380 size for tanks - 7/2/2009 11:11 PM   
philipat


 

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Status: offline 		sorry...I misunderstood. I thought you said that you had used the 600S motors at some point.

GP cells? What are those? I thought Venoms were supposed to be pretty good.

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