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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 6:16:58 AM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I have always strung the antenna out the back of all my planes and never had any range problems. I have been trying to route the antenna internally on my quickies but have not been able to get a satisfactory range check with them internal. I thought on a couple it was due to the CF pushrods but I routed a new Predator internally and it has the stock wooden dowel pushrods. I only get about 60 feet before it starts getting jittery. My externally routed planes easily go over 150 feet.

I have my rx mounted forward of all other electronics with the antenna going forward on the left side. It goes to the back side of the forward former, across to the right side, and then back to the tail in a nylon tube. I keep it as high in the fuse as I can since all the other electronics are mounted low.

Any ideas? I'm racing in Cincy this weekend. I don't want any radio troubles. I have enough trouble just flying the plane!
Thanks,,,basmntdweller

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Routing of Quickie Antennas - 6/20/2003 6:59:26 AM   
MaxQ


 

Posts: 91
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Santa Clara, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Mr Dweller,

Years back I've seen sport fliers have interference problems when they ran their antenna's in nylon tubes out the models rear end. What I do with my quickies is to install a short (approx 2 inch) piece of nylon tubing exiting the aft end resting on the upper V-tail centerline joint. Make sure this nylon tubing has a straight shot to the servo cavity just aft of the wing. To run my antenna I fish a straight piece of easily bendable piano wire (approx 0.05 inch diameter) through the aft nylon tube to the servo compartment. From there I grab it and CA the antenna end to the end of the wire and pull it out the aft end. If you don't like a drop of CA on the end of your antenna, shrink tube works also. I've never investigated the effect of antenna routing, but running a majority your antenna length within tubing doesn't sound like a good idea.

MaxQ

PS: I'm the future Doddger owner.

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 7:42:20 AM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		The nylon tube is actually sold for that purpose! I have a couple planes (1/4 scale) that have the tubes installed in the fuse but the entire antenna is basically a straight line except for about 4 inches from the rx to the tube. These have no range problems. I think it's the roundabout routing that is causing the problem, I just don't know how to solve it.
basmntdweller

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 7:48:43 AM   
C_Watkins



Posts: 1069
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Douglasville, GA, USA
Status: offline 		The way to solve the problem with short range, using internal antenna,
is to not do it. You will never get the full range you enjoy with the straight antenna.

As for the plastic sheathing, there should be no effect whatsoever on range,
caused by running the antenna through a bit of plastic, along its length.

No matter what you do to shorten that antenna up, though...
it *will* positively have a detrimental effect on the overall range.
They work best when they're laid out as straight as possible.
(That's not saying you may not eventually stumble upon a configuration that
works well for you, and gives "enough" range... but it will always be shorter than
the range you'd have if the antenna was stretched out to its full length)

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 8:00:57 AM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I'd love to have the antenna stretched out straight it's full length. Unfortunately, the fuse is about 12" too short to have it straight out. I wouldn't care about it hanging out in the breeze but I worry it might get snagged during launch or a close call with another plane.
basmntdweller

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 8:05:19 AM   
C_Watkins



Posts: 1069
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Douglasville, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah... sometimes you have to compromise.
I have run them out to a wingtip T-pin, then back toward the tail, usually
having to add a bit of string into the equation. Even the big "L" shape is
better than coiling up the extra length inside the fuse, though. IMHO, of course

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Antennas - 6/20/2003 8:40:24 AM   
daven



Posts: 7004
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Basement,

I have tried the Deans antennas, the wrap around the "comb" type methond, and just hanging it out the back.

What I have found that works best for me is to get a piece of the plastic antenna sheeth about 12-14" in length. Almost all of my receivers end up right around the rear hold down bolts. I run the plastic sheeth forward to the nose, and then loop back towards the tail in the tube. Set up the sheething so that the antenna can exit the rear of the tail about 6" from the back end, with about 4" sticking out. I take the last 4" of the antenna and tape it direct to the side of the fuze at the tail.

I have seen less range in my checks, but if I can get 50+ foot with the antenna completely collapsed, I feel pretty confident.

I do not want my helper accidently kneeling on the antenna on take off, or having it hang out the rear like a parachute.

I haven't had a problem with range this way.

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 8:58:32 AM   
js3



Posts: 1145
Joined: 1/30/2002
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline 		basmntdweller,

The method you describe has worked perfectly well for me on at least three Q500 planes. However, I did have a similar problem when the antenna was placed too close to the firewall. I can't explain it but when I moved the looped part more toward the rear, the interference went away.

Here's another method I've used with good results...

Coil the extra 12" of antenna around a piece of soft balsa--a 4" X 1/2" X 3/32" worked well for me. Then run the remainder (in a tube or not) to the back of the plane without looping it forward toward the first wing former. The CRITICAL thing to remember with this technique is that you CANNOT cross the winds of the antenna as they go around the piece of wood. I also made sure that the individual winds didn't touch each other. Wrap this assembly with tape to make sure everything stays where it should.

C_Watkins is correct when he says that anything you do will reduce the range when compared to when the antenna is perfectly straight. And his point that finding a solution that provides enough range is a good one. That is what both of these methods provide when setup properly--enough range.

Pylon racers should always have their antennas concealed within the airframe. Finding the compromise is sometime difficult.

Oh, one more thing! Try running the antenna along the bottom of the fuse just to see if it is better or worse than where you have it now.

Good luck!

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 10:23:11 AM   
C_Watkins



Posts: 1069
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Douglasville, GA, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by js3
Oh, one more thing! Try running the antenna along the bottom of the fuse just to see if it is better or worse than where you have it now. [/QUOTE]


Along those same lines, I've installed tubing through the vertical before...
and either ran along the bottom, then UP the vertical, through the tube,
or out the fuse top, to the top of the vertical, and then DOWN through the bottom.
On one where the vertical was pretty thin, I gouged a groove into the
leading edge, and laid the tubing into the leading edge of the vertical.
Each of those has worked out pretty good for me, for the smaller models.

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 6:31:06 PM   
DMyer


 

Posts: 491
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Potomac, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I have routed my antenna internally in every plane I have built over the last 20 years.... never once any problems with range or interference whatever regardless of the type of pushrods or other internal stuff. Range checks with collapsed Trans antenna are great. I have used Futaba(old days) and JR receivers only. What type radios/receivers are you guys using having range problems? have they been dirt bathed?

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 7:45:24 PM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I am using Futaba 7 channel and FMA Extreme 5 rx's. I had one plane with the CF pushrods that started getting jittery at about 50 ft. It had the antenna routed like I mentioned. I pulled the wing off, ran the antenna out at the TE and let it dangle out between the v-tail. There was about 12" hanging behind the fuse. Range test this way showed solid control farther than I could see the surfaces moving or hear the servos.
??? basmntdweller

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 7:55:16 PM   
daven



Posts: 7004
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I'm using both a Futaba 8uafs and a Futaba 9C with mostly Hitec 555 receivers.

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Radio range concerns - 6/20/2003 8:10:28 PM   
DMyer


 

Posts: 491
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Potomac, MD, USA
Status: offline 		As for routing an antenna inside a quickie.... I always install the tube so that it exits at the end of the tail. I route the antenna a few inches forward, taped to the side then straight back and out the back. I usually only have a few inches hanging out the back, even with the current short fuses. I don't worry about a little drag from that little bit of wire flapping in the breeze... I got bigger things to worry about... my thumbs! If you are concerned about the extra drag of not having the antenna 100% enclosed, then speed secret #27 is for you... wax your antenna!

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Antenna Waxing - 6/20/2003 9:12:04 PM   
daven



Posts: 7004
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I can't believe you shared speed secret #27.

Waxing the antenna was suppose to remain a secret.

Now you went and wrecked the advantage....

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Radio range concerns - 6/21/2003 12:31:03 AM   
PJ_TankPilot



Posts: 396
Joined: 1/16/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Whatever you do, don’t let it dangle out the rear. Last year, I launched a Q-500 while standing on the antenna. The pilot was getting hits at number 1. Because he was wining the heat, he stayed in the heat and won. When I went to pick up his stuff at the start line, I found his antenna. He had flown the entire heat with a 2 inch antenna.

My point is that Q-500s don’t usually get far away and low. Reduced range is probably not going to be a problem unless you are flying at a place with serious interference problems. If you are flying PPM, you will know if you have a problem. Glitches don’t know anything about expo, end points and dual rates.

< Message edited by PJ_TankPilot -- Jun 22 2003 11:08PM >

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Radio range concerns - 6/21/2003 6:18:17 PM   
bryantbj-RCU


 

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