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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/3/2012 6:59 AM   
norbique



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From: Europe, HUNGARY
Status: offline 		Those 1400KV T600 Turnigy motors are good. I bought them while they were only $30 + sh, now they're $60 +sh but still worth it.

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/3/2012 8:05 AM   
colosus



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From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Thanx Norbert...

Loadsa info...excellent job..
So both low or high Kv motors could give same performance depending on what setup you will use... i.e how many cells or Lipos and what speed controller you use...controller must support the amp of how many cells u will use ... so the lower the Kv more cells needed and the higher Kv less cells needed...

A 3000-4000Kv only needs like 3s unless Amps needed to run motor was higher then it can take more cells ?

So i could use for example the Scoprion 3226/1600kv for Helicopter motors....meaning less batteries to use...but then Amp is low...which does not mean a fast setup...
like i said my Lehner 2250 needs 160amps... 24 cells ..all ready using a speed controller in the 300+ euros...and this is pure power...with that motor and good prop setup the boat will do over 100kph ...100% ....how can a lower ampage motor get those types of speed if it had less batteries to run it...??
you didnt mention anything about Amps ...so now me a little confused..i thought the higher the amp the more powerfull the motor ..?
I know they are two different things Amp and Kv, i'm just waking up hehe when i write this so do excuse my simple mind....its not working right yet...more coffee...

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/3/2012 8:21 AM   
ThomasSalin


 

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From: Raseborg, FINLAND
Status: offline 		I just printed the plans, this will be a nice winter project..

///Thomas

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/3/2012 10:11 AM   
Goldenduff


 

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Status: offline 		Lower ampage could the same speed by using a higher pitch prop with smaller diameter prop- so less thrust/acc.....I think!!

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Hello, the IMAX b6 quattro fits the bill?

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 6:19 AM   
norbique



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Status: offline 		We must clearify something here.
It's not the prop size/pitch that's the first thing to make a boat faster, but power is.
Power = Voltage * Current

So to go back to the debate of HV and LV setup heres a little maths (this is theory, I don't bother with motor/esc efficiency, power loss due to friction etc.):

Let's suppose we need 2kW of power to push our hull decently. Lets see how much current would such a setup require:

Power = Voltage * Current -> Current = Power / Voltage

LV setup: 6S pack Current = 2000W / 22.2V = 90A
HV setup: 12S pack Current = 2000W / 44.4V = 45A

This shows clearly how things are related. The HV setup would run less amps for the exact same amount of watts in. And the less the current, the less the heat loss which also means higher efficiency.
We can also see since the HV setup needs lower current from our packs for the same amount of motor power, the packs will hold their voltage higher, this will also result in a faster running boat. We can generally say the less the current the better off we are. Unfortunately, the HV ESCs are more expensive than the LV ones mostly because of the higher voltage MosFET transistors used in them. this is the only reason I stuck with the LV setup.

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 9:45 AM   
Goldenduff


 

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Status: offline 		Agreed but lets be clear that raw power with incorrect prop can be slower than less power with perfect prop!



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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 10:31 AM   
colosus



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From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		hmmmm...me still confused.... lol

This Lehner 2250 9winds 160amp motor cost me almost 300euros, how can a motor of less the 100euros ever be comparible, how can you compare the two ..ok compare is the wrong word but... 160amp thats a lot man..and almost any controller needed for that motor will cost between 250 to 390 or more..

For example Norbert...if you take 2 of these motors i have and put those in your Lithium Cat along with 48 cells or..em how many lipos i forget, then your cat will be very very fast..much faster than you got it already..i know this because my same motor is used for HPR boats and MHZ ....but then your talkng silly money for the lipos and controllers...

so i'm still no clearer on how to save money on motors & setups but still have mega speed....how i now see it is if you want speed...your'll have to pay for it..reason i brought this to light is because there's so many motors on the market i got no idea where to start or what to get.. motors 4pole and so on ....some Leopard motors and fast too..there must be about 20 different Leopard motors to choose from....now i seen vids on youtube running Leopard motors then finding out there are other Leopard motors they could have used...why did they get this particular motor.....an not the other..depends on there own setups, yes..but thats not what i mean..its the series of motor..4092 or 4068 or 5698 and it goes on ...lol..
what is it you need to look for to know that your boat will go fast with this motor and this amount of batteries..?? knowing that we're not buying motors made for boats..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=OdoNi4PemnM&feature=fvwp

< Message edited by colosus -- 9/4/2012 10:53 AM >

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 1:11 PM   
ThomasSalin


 

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Status: offline 		when using counter rotating propellers .. do you also use flex cable suitable for counter rotating?
I hope You understand my question

///Thomas

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 1:25 PM   
norbique



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThomasSalin

when using counter rotating propellers .. do you also use flex cable suitable for counter rotating?
I hope You understand my question

///Thomas



YES counter rotating flex shaft is a must.

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 1:28 PM   
ThomasSalin


 

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Status: offline 		was the counter rotating flex shaft standard on the stinger or did You have to modifie it?

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/4/2012 2:51 PM   
norbique



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Status: offline 		I bought the normal and reverse rotating flex shafts separately. made my own propshafts, drivedogs and couplers.

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/5/2012 6:27 AM   
ThomasSalin


 

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Status: offline 		What could be a good motor/esc combo if I would use only a single motor on this bull?

///Thomas

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/5/2012 11:50 AM   
norbique



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Status: offline 		Don't know what motor you should use, but look for something that's in the 4+ kW range.

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/8/2012 8:48 AM   
colosus



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From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		yea..the only thing is you will never get the speeds needed for this boat with one motor setup...unless you went for a motor like i got for example 2250/9 HiAmp 160amp, HPR boats are using same and even 2280/7 and now in the 3000 series 196kmh but these cost loadsa cash..if i get another 2250/9 i know for sure this boat will rocket...
Neumotors too cost loads..

I did some research over the years..latest fast motor used are Scorpions:
2x Scorpion 5035/760kv with 2x 12S1P Turnigy Nanotech 5000 45C = but these cost like the Lehner motors

Then less price motors like :
Tenshock motors 2250/7 at 136kmh http://www.tenshock-motors.de/
feigao 540 6XL will be fast as a single motor but needs very good cooling

2x leopard 4074 2000kv 6s at 133kmh

and 2x Leopard 4082 2200kv going at 154kmh = $75 each motor (i would be buying something like this for this Cat build)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvWEUQzqeMY&feature=relmfu
Seaking 180A

These motors have been test in MHZ Mystic 114 & HPR 115, just type straight in youtube '' mystic 114 '' it will come up with loadsa vids and there setup specs...this will give you an idea..
Hope this helps..
I found a nice controller too.
HV 220A Opto PRO II Navy Competition Brushless ESC (10-40 Opto)
[E065] $259.00


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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/16/2012 11:27 PM   
baadebygger


 

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From: Esbjerg, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Very nice work Norbert.

I consider to build a Cataraman. Are about to do a Smit Rotterdam and the Admiral (Old Costum- control mahagony cruiser)from DMI/Billings.

Greatings from Esbjerg, Denmark

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RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build - 9/25/2012 6:02 PM   
mike52869


 

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From: , ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Norbert: If you could send me a set of plans I would be greatly thankful!
Mike           watdm40@yahoo.com

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All Forums >> RC Boats >> Speed - Electric >> RE: Norbert's 1.1m balsa cat build
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