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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 8:23 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Another morning of pesky minor tasks. I counted them. This morning, I measured, cut out, shaped, sanded, and glued in 20 separate, little pieces of wood on the ailerons. Such is often the reality of modeling. But they are finally completely ready to cover...as are the wings.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 1:15 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Doc, I was at the hardware store last week and found one of the OLFA rotary cutters. It must be something different from yours since this one only cost me about $11. Maybe you're talking about the cutting board type that Teus posted. Anyway, it cuts the silk effortlessly!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 2:17 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Seriously, **** is up with these TF hot socks??? Every other brand of hot sock I've ever used just slipped right on the iron. But these (and I have two that are just the same) seem to be SEWN SHUT and I can't for the life of me figure out how I'm supposed to cut it open to be able to use it.

What's the trick?

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 3:44 PM   
ulpilotrmh


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Don,

No trimming needed. It's a b***h getting the thing on, but perseverence pays off.



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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 3:46 PM   
ulpilotrmh


 

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Status: offline 		Also, the point goes on first.

Russ

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 3:48 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		So you sort of wrap it AROUND the iron, instead of slipping the iron in between the layers of fabric? That's dopey. Anyway, thanks for the photos, I'll give it a shot.

*****

OK. Got it. When you pull on the strings that forms a "pocket" of sorts and then you can try to get iron into the pocket. It works, but just barely. I give this one, hands-down, the WORST-DESIGNED-HOBBY-PRODUCT award.

*****

BTW, I'm thinking of buying a package of cheap white cotton gloves (like the ones worn by taxi drivers and even distance runners here in Japan) and just slipping those over my iron. I find that these hot socks get gunked up very quickly.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 4:27 PM   
geezeraviation


 

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Status: offline 		Never use em, I figure theyre for film covering and its so you dont mar the finish. Cant see the need with fabric covering.
Doc

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 5:31 PM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		I have never used them either, not even for film. If you use stik -it, dont use it. It will probably glue its self to the wing. the glue comes through the Koverall, so when the shoe gets gummy, you have to clean it with solvent.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2012 6:03 PM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TFF
If you use stik -it, dont use it. It will probably glue its self to the wing. the glue comes through the Koverall, so when the shoe gets gummy, you have to clean it with solvent.


That's exactly what was happening.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 3:04 AM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		All you can do is clean the shoe. The glove is still fabric; it will absorb the glue and glue its self too

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 3:33 AM   
Flying Fox


 

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Status: offline 		Yep, scrap the sock Don, it's of no use with the Stix-it. Even w/o it you'll have to clean the iron a few times as you go/
Hang in there buddy!

Bri


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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 5:18 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Good to know that you guys let your irons go "barefoot." I've always used the sock all along just assuming it was the normal thing to do. I've had problems in the past with color from colored fabrics (for example, silver or linen solartex) coming off on the sock and then smearing onto other areas. But I hadn't used one with Stix-it before...and you're right that the stix-it comes right through the sock fabric and gums it up.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 1:52 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Covering the top wing is turning out to be more complex than the bottom wings. A problem I hadn't thought of until I began covering is that the innermost bay of the wire TE lies at 45 degree angle to the rest...so (obvious to me now) the fabric can't just pull to it as for the rest of the wire TE. I think I may have to use the "flaps" trick on this bay. Dealing with the ailerons cut-out and the slip for the aileron lever also makes it more challenging. Trimming the Koverall remains a PITA. But I accept that it's the best covering for this particular job. Solartex is certainly easier to use.

Actually, what I need to watch a real master of Koverall apply it and see how he handles all the "little stuff" like corners and root ribs, etc.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 2:08 PM   
geezeraviation


 

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Status: offline 		So why is it again since you're going to put silk over the Koverall for color/grain quality, that you are using Koverall rather than Solartex? Is it a cost issue or weight? Seems masochistic to me to cover a model twice at any rate.lol I guess I'm just not that dedicated when it comes to color/texture.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 3:06 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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quote:

innermost bay of the wire TE lies at 45 degree angle to the rest...the fabric can't just pull to it as for the rest of the wire TE. I think I may have to use the "flaps" trick
If it doesn't work then what about trying a separate piece of covering in this area and hide the seam under the rib tape or use solartex as a separate piece at this location. - just a quick thought. I'll bet you get the tab method to work out though.

quote:

watch a real master of Koverall apply it and see how he handles all the "little stuff" like corners and root ribs, etc.
- where is a good You-Tube video when we need one.

Bri

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 3:14 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		The basic fact is this: The solartex will NOT shrink enough to pull tight against the wire TE. It just won't.

So Koverall was the only option. Now, as to why I would "cover the covering" that boils down to a choice between painting or otherwise coloring the Koverall (since Koverall is just plain uncolored fabric) or thinking of some other method for "applying color." I had initially planned to add some sort of "yellowing/browning" agent to the PolyC or Nelson's Clear. But I never got a result that looked good. Either the color effect was barely visible or it became too dark, for example, where the clear "pooled" by seams and edges. It just didn't look right. I'm willing to continue testing a bit, but Matz has confirmed that the Silk is an almost 100% match for the fabric color on a full-scale replica. The silk alone, however, would be way too transparent to look right on its own. I could, of course, paint the wings. But frankly, I dislike that idea so much, I'd rather use the silk. And bear in mind that the Koverall+Silk weigh LESS than Solartex.

So to put this issue to rest: Solartex (linen, antique, or natural) just wasn't an option.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 3:34 PM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flying Fox
If it doesn't work then what about trying a separate piece of covering in this area and hide the seam under the rib tape or use solartex as a separate piece at this location. - just a quick thought. I'll bet you get the tab method to work out though.


I did manage it. First I slathered Stix-it rather liberally on the wire in this bay. Then I trimmed the bottom Koverall to about 1/8" outside the wire and with the Stix-it still wet pressed the fabric down around it. Then when that was dry, I applied a second coat of Stix-it to the TE and did the same with the top surface. It's not perfect but the imperfections aren't very visible...and to some degree will be hidden by the silk.

The basic steps in covering one of the top wings are as follows:

1. Apply several coats of Stix-it to the LE, wing tip, and wooden edges, but NOT the wire TE.

2. Also apply Stix-it to the concave area of the ribs on the bottom.

3. Cut out a rectangle of Koverall large enough to cover both top and bottom with plenty to spare.

4. With the wing laying bottom up, and the Koverall laying over the wing, iron the fabric to the LE. This is trickier than it sounds.

5. Also iron the fabric to the bottom of the root rib.

6. Apply a second coat of Stix-it to the LE (over and through the lower fabric).

7. Next, turn the wing over, wrapping the Koverall around the wire TE.

8. Very gently pull the Koverall around the wire and towards the LE to eliminate a good part of the slack. (But "runs" appear if you pull too hard.)

9. Then, smooth the fabric towards the LE and iron onto the LE bay by bay from the root rib outward.

10. Tack down the bottom and top fabric around the aileron cut-out.

11. Do an initially tightening of the fabric on the bottom, then the top, just to get out the main areas of slack.

12. Now do the wingtips and other cut-out areas (lots of little steps here).

13. Do a second tightening of the fabric top and bottom working from the LE back to the TE making sure not to over-tighten any particular bay.

14. Trim. Actually there are lots of trimming steps and I can't remember them all here.

15. Apply yet another coat of Stix-it to the LE, then iron on a long torn strip of Solartex Natural both to cover the "fuzzies" and to hide the CF LE rod.


And I'm sure I left out at least a half dozen other little steps. Tomorrow I'll work on the other wing.


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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 4:19 PM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: geezeraviation
I guess I'm just not that dedicated when it comes to color/texture.


I guess I'm just always looking for something that will set my model apart. All of the aircraft we model have been modeled hundreds, if not thousands of times before. So all any one modeler can do it try something different. One thing I try to avoid is using any "stock" items or materials that are easily recognizably as such. For example, I don't want someone to be able to look at my model from 20 feet away (or even 5) and say, oh he used solartex linen. I want the viewer to say: "Oh that really looks like clear doped linen." Ditto, for WB machine guns, wheels and any other purchased items.

By the way, I just love this photo and have posted it several times! Now THIS is WWI modeling! And shows that modelers have been modeling the CI ever since there was a CI. And, you know, that's a damn fine model! Look at all the detail and even the washout in the wings looks right. But, then, they had the full-scale original sitting right there in front of them. Heck, they probably WORKED ON the full-scale original every day! And in their spare time, they built a model of it...during wartime! Now that's dedication.


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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2012 6:06 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Hats off to you Don.. that's the fighting spirit...
Only the real scalers out there and on this forum can appreciate the work and dedication it takes to replicate to the finest detail and
have your model stand above and beyond the average scale attempt.

- I do get a chuckle when I hear of modellers say "I'm gonna build a 1/3 scale bird this winter"...

- I also chuckle when I see modellers get frustrated with their projects and just want to move along at all costs..

THIS IS HOW SCALE BUILDING IS....TEDIOUS.....LETS NOT FOOL OURSELVES....

I think one has to have the mindset from the beginning that these hard to do details will be a joy to attempt with patience and dedication....who cares when it really gets done?
it will be done when its ready...BUY AN ARF IN THE MEANTIME IF NEED BE !!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2012 4:26 AM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		Another trick you can do is tune the iron to 225 deg. At that temp you can iron a shape into the Koverall. You have to leave a pretty good edge to pull on. If you iron and pull you can get a 1/4-3/8 in of the overlap to lay on top of the other just like it was made to fit. Pull and iron about an inch up while you have tension on it. Keep working it. Trim to the overlap amount and it should flop flat. It takes patience.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2012 6:21 AM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
I do get a chuckle when I hear of modellers say ''I'm gonna build a 1/3 scale bird this winter''


The scary thing is that there are one or two scale modelers who can pull this off and end up with a top competition level model!!! This "trick" is that they spend 8 hours a day (or more) in the shop. But for the most part, when I hear "1/3 scale model" I think "less detailed than either a 1/4 or 1/6 model."


< Message edited by abufletcher -- 10/21/2012 3:15 PM >

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2012 2:57 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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8 hours a day (or more) in the shop
Oh to be retired! Very envious indeed. I can barely find eight minutes a day to get into to my shop. It can be very frustrating sometimes when you can't do this modelling thing on a regular basis. You end up spending part of the evening getting your brain in the right place and then more time sitting there just getting up to speed on your own project again... arghhhh And just to add insult to injury, I've heard of some guys taking up to a decade to complete a museum scale project! For me this wouldn't work - there are too many neat planes I want to model and fly.

quote:

...try to avoid is using any "stock" items or materials that are easily recognizably
Now this is a tricky area isn't it? Sometimes you can work with the stock items and enhance them to make them more scale like and unique looking, othertimes you just have to work them up from scratch. For example, I have two big WB wheels for my Morane Saulnier, perfect size, white rubber tires as per the originals. They will be covered with aluminum plates over the spokes, so it will be a case of enhancing a stock item. Now later, if all works out I may go ahead and build custom spoked wheels, but again it adds another mini (or not so mini) project to the build.

Always a question of trade-offs, time, and how much scale fidelity you wish to include.

Bri


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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2012 3:14 PM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: Flying Fox
You end up spending part of the evening getting your brain in the right place and then more time sitting there just getting up to speed on your own project again... arghhhh


In part, that's why I do these build threads, let' me check back to see where I was.

quote:


And just to add insult to injury, I've heard of some guys taking up to a decade to complete a museum scale project!


I'll let Mein Duff (Eric) address this one! Three years has been my limit so far...

quote:


Sometimes you can work with the stock items and enhance them to make them more scale like and unique looking, othertimes you just have to work them up from scratch. For example, I have two big WB wheels for my Morane Saulnier, perfect size, white rubber tires as per the originals. They will be covered with aluminum plates over the spokes, so it will be a case of enhancing a stock item. Now later, if all works out I may go ahead and build custom spoked wheels, but again it adds another mini (or not so mini) project to the build.


Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against using commercial products. I just don't want them to look like stock commercial products. Often, it doesn't take much to take a stock item and make it look unique...as you're doing with those aluminum plates (which I also used on my EIII). BTW, have you checked to see if your WB wheels have a scale ratio between the tyre width and the hub? In a review I did here on RCU, I found that at least for the smaller sizes the WB wheels are too wide relative to the hub. The Flair and MR wheels have the narrower tyres one sees in photos. This doesn't mean you shouldn't use those nice WB wheels with their very nice white tires (but start dirtying them up NOW)? No, not at all. But you can make the aluminum plate a bit oversized to make the tyres seem narrower.

Anyway, the thing is to avoid having a model that just looks like a flying collection of stock model accessories.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2012 3:29 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		On the other hand...all work and no play...

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/22/2012 8:50 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Ok ...what are we all voting on here?...and who's that guy eating spaghetti?...I though this was Japan?

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