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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/16/2009 8:01 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		You know, I think I can do without the outside 1/8" ply riblet. I just don't see what exactly it's supporting. I just sort of "felt" it should be there. And it's not scale since there is no partial rib between the last rib and the wingtip.



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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/16/2009 10:59 PM   
Idigbo



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Status: offline 		Beautiful build as ever Don, its a shame that no one makes 'see thru' servos though huh? What colour scheme are you doing, I love that C.III scheme Erwin Bohme had with the dragons down the fuselage, I don't suppose theres anything similar for the C.I is there?!

Ian.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/17/2009 4:18 AM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: Idigbo
Beautiful build as ever Don, its a shame that no one makes 'see thru' servos though huh? What colour scheme are you doing, I love that C.III scheme Erwin Bohme had with the dragons down the fuselage, I don't suppose theres anything similar for the C.I is there?!

Ian.


Again, I'm lucky in that the servo happens to lay just under the area that will have that big, black cross, so it won't be visible at all!

In terms of color schemes, CI's seem to have come in only two color: light blue and no color at all! The overall light blue (or possibly white) was intended as sky camouflage and I'm sure it would have just the same function on a model. But the clear doped and varnished versions have a bit of personality and require some modeling finesse to really carry off the effect well. With a model like the DVII or Albatros DIII-DV, the modeler can rely on the color scheme to give the model pizzazz. But not on models like the CI (or most of the early British types). On these models it's all about subtle details. It's about funk. I'm leaning towards one particular aircraft (of which there's only one photos in the DF) that has some interesting quirky features, including a Danish Madsen machine gun mounted over the wing (along with the Parabellum), a Mauser rifle slung on the side of the observers cockpit, a teddy bear on the engine, and a wire "firing guide" between the wings. I believe this is one of the clear doped versions but I'll have to look hard at that one BW photo.


< Message edited by abufletcher -- 10/17/2009 5:53 AM >

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/17/2009 10:15 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Building the lower wing turned out to be much more of an adventure (and effort) than I had imagined. But I've finally got it licked. There's still the usual stuff to do: Sanding the TE, adding the riblets, the cap strips, and the spar doublers and packings, etc. But no more problems to resolve!

I ended up doing a fairly major redesign of the servo area, though this remains true to Chris' original concept. It's just a bit more sturdy and simpler like this. I needed to cut four new balsa and ply ribs for this (LR-12/LR-12p and LR-12/LR13p) as well as two each of the 1/8" ply riblet that goes outboard of the strut position and the small 1/8" partial rib that goes next to the servo arm strut.

In addition I drill holes though all the ribs for the servo wire (which runs inside three white plastic straws). The area in red in the last photo will need to be trimmed away to fit the top of the servo. Note: The way I've done the servo hatch area, I build it with the main spar all in one piece and then afterwards, used a razor saw to cut out the sections in the hatch area and the servo arm slot. This ensures that everything stays lined up.

Whew!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/17/2009 5:22 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		A few hours later and the other wing is done to almost the save stage (just missing the wingtip because I'm out of 4mm aluminum tube).

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/17/2009 6:23 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Here's the idea for the aileron bellcrank cables.

BTW, I think I can finally understand how the kit's original servo area/spar extension worked. The spar extension was, in effect, Z-shaped and so slipped into the top notches in the ribs (which just seemed bizarre to me at the time) and then angled down to the level of the wingtip. According to an email from Chris (from an internet cafe in the Dominican Republic!) the reason for the elevated spar extension was to allow for the strut bolt underneath. That shouldn't be any problem with a small recess in the spar (as per the Snipe and Pup), which after all is why they spar doublers are there. Anywhere, there are always multiple possible solutions to any engineering problem. Chris did say that he's already made some corrections to this part of the plans/kit.

In the end, this was an awful lot of additional work to end up with something that's just slightly different (better?) than the kit. It probably would have been less work just to put the ailerons in the fuselage!

And, you know, I still could!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/17/2009 6:37 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Oh, and I wanted to say again, how neat the technique of building above the glass is in terms of being able to deal with features like undercambered airfoils and washout. It makes it an absolute no brainer!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/18/2009 5:11 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Next task was to sand the TE before putting on the cap strips. To protect ribs during this operation I've used the old trick of covering the them with tape, so when you start to scuff the tape you know it's time to stop. These photos also show how incredibly thin the laminated edge becomes. In effect it's just the 0.8mm ply with a bit of balsa remaining to get the ribs some sticking area. But without the cap strips this is perhaps just too delicate. With the caps the TE is locked in good and solid, and still just as thin!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2009 5:15 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Even with very delicate handling, I've broken more than a dozen of the soft balsa riblets. Some have been broken in multiple locations. I think this really is something that will have to change on the regular production kit. Tom accurately described them as being of "depron quality." While the are very VERY light, they really aren't up to the task. With the rib caps they are just passable but it really is a pain working with them.

And really, I think they can all be cut the same. And differences are minimal and the builder can fine-tune if needed.

I've cut all the 1mm balsa strips for the rib capping but now I'm going to have to cut a new set of riblets out of harder balsa before I can continue. Ugh! I could ask Chris to cut a new set and ship them out (which I'm sure he'd do) but it could be a couple of weeks before I'd get them.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2009 5:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		Don
Would be better to cut the ribs out of say 0.8mm ply may be a bit stronger than balsa .



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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2009 5:24 PM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: grover1

Don
Would be better to cut the ribs out of say 0.8mm ply may be a bit stronger than balsa .




Liteply would be good but I don't know how to get hold of any. Personally, I think good hard balsa is as good or better than liteply.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/19/2009 7:16 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		OK. The first task is to cut a template for the riblets from 1/8" ply. The tail end of the riblets seem to be just slightly different (probably related to the washout) so I'll just Riblet 10 for the template since it has the slightly "taller" tail end. I can then easily sand the inner riblets down a bit if needed.

Then I'll drill several small holes for pins so I can make sure it stays put on the balsa as I cut those out one by one by hand. I don't really see how I could do this on my band saw or scroll saw. Cutting them by hand (with minimal shaping required) will probably be faster than rough cutting them with the power saw and then sanding them to shape.

BTW, here's my little "factory" for cutting and leveling out the cap strips. The Master Airscrew balsa stripper cuts them easily enough but they are not entirely uniform in width. So I place them all together between two lengths of 10 x 5mm hardwood and then lightly sand one side, then flip them all over and sand the other side down to the level of the wood. I guess that means that they are about 5mm wide but somehow it seems more like 4mm. I don't know. I just leave a slight lip on either side of the 3mm balsa ribs.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2009 11:27 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		It took me about 2 lazy hours to cut the 11 new riblets needed for one lower wing panel by hand using a ply template. On the plans only 10 riblets are called for but because of my modification to the servo area I need one more. The new riblets were cut from what I would call medium-weight balsa. They are also cut from 3mm balsa vs. the 2mm soft balsa. A set of 11 of the old riblets weighs just 2g while the new set weighs 7g. This would have been 4.7g if I had used 2mm of the same balsa (which probably would have been fine with the rib caps). For the 3-5g weight gain these are now significantly more durable.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2009 1:49 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Next set's done, so it's on with the show. There are subtle differences between the different riblets, but when cutting a new set that can basically be ignored and then the parts adjusted as needed.

Update: Got those pesky riblets in. Now I need to put in the spar doublers at the strut points, something which I really should have done earlier.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2009 6:22 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

quote:

ORIGINAL: grover1

Don
Would be better to cut the ribs out of say 0.8mm ply may be a bit stronger than balsa .




Liteply would be good but I don't know how to get hold of any. Personally, I think good hard balsa is as good or better than liteply.



This is also a prototype kit from CTDavies and should be built per the plans and instructions to produce the kit as designed. (Yeh, we know Abu, that ain't gonna happen if your building it; but, I think structually you should stay close!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2009 7:22 PM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: Mode One
This is also a prototype kit from CTDavies and should be built per the plans and instructions to produce the kit as designed.


The goal in my mind is to help Chris produce the very best CI kit he possibly can. I'd be doing him (and future CDScaleDesigns customers) a disservice if I ignored what I think might be flaws in the kit or even weaknesses of the design. What looks great on paper, doesn't always look as good when realized in wood and glue. I figure it's my "job" to pass along as many recommendations as possible. Chris, of course, has the final say in whether to include a suggestion in future kits.

The riblets are a case in point. They are very well designed and the CNC cut parts fit perfectly. But done in very soft 2mm balsa they are just far too brittle. Another example is the cap stripping on the ribs. The innovative technique that Chris uses to achieve a scale thin TE worked fine on the Snipe with its smaller wings and thicker airfoil, but on the almost scale thin airfoil used on the 2 meter wings on the CI kit, there's almost nothing holding on the TE. Holding the wing in my hand before I added the cap strips, it was immediately apparent that this was a very delicate structure and the unprotected soft balsa riblets snapped even with the lightest handling. After adding the cap strips, the delicate riblets were stabilized (but still need to be made of harder balsa) and the TE has become a fully integrated part of the wing structure. It seems to me a win-win improvement (and the other "prototype" builder in Germany added them as well).

Then there was the issue of engine thrust. After building the "stock" version and posting the photos here, some modelers wondered about why it didn't have any engine thrust angle built in. Well, we started thinking long and hard about that. I can up with an idea for an ad hoc solution, but Chris suggested that it would be better if he just redesigned these parts to include a couple of degrees of right thrust. And while he was at it, he corrected a couple of other small problems with the fit of some parts that I had found.

But you have a point that it wouldn't be fair to go completely and totally "off track." And that's why I didn't pursue the idea of the wire TE. There are a few "unscheduled" mods (that I've actually already discussed with Chris) I'll be throwing in there. But that goes with my philosophy on what a kit should be. To me a kit is a starting point, not a 3-D puzzle to be assembled. The purpose of a kit is to make it easier for me to make the very best scale model I can. But a kit also has to be practical and some of my scale ideas aren't very practical in terms of manufacturing a kit.

And then, when you get right down to it, this is my model as much as it is Chris' While he did provide me with a kit, "free of charge," I've already put more of my own money into it (engine, radio, covering, etc.) than the kit cost. In actuality, I've been working closely with Chris on the research and design of this kit for over two years. Hopefully, in the end, I'll be able to provide him with an extensive set of construction photos and several sets of glamor photos that he is most welcome to use "free of charge" for his business.

And perhaps more important that anything else is that Chris has become a good friend and I want to do everything I can to help him succeed.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2009 7:29 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Mods I'm planning on or at least considering:

1. Scale method of attaching the wings, which will require scale mods to the cabane structure and wing tubes.

2. More scale wing struts with pointy tips and scale strut attachment points (probably impractical for a kit).

3. Possibly rotating Schneider ring (connected to a separate servo?). This probably means not using the kit parts for this ring.



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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/20/2009 8:19 PM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: Mode One
...should be built per the plans and instructions to produce the kit as designed.


Oh yeah, and there aren't any instructions.


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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 12:56 AM   
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Status: offline 		All I was saying is changing the rib materail from balsa to lite ply would not be building the airplane per the manufacturers plans for the prototype. Absolutly agreed, if you find flaws, they should be brought to the manufacturers attention.

Having never built one of Chris' designs, I had no idea there are no instructions. Then, I would assume that's what you are coming up with now.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 1:07 AM   
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Status: offline 		I though the pictures seen here are used in the production of the instruction package? The instructions, un-edited, is this thread when the plane is completed.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 3:17 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		TFF, that's it more or less. We've thought a lot about the problems involved in doing an instruction manual. One problem is which language. Another is that a textual description often doesn't communicate well. Either the builder already understands what to do so the text is unnecessary or the text is meaningless. Flair's old instructions are a good example of this. On the Mark II version of the Puppeteer, they've replaced instructions with a couple of sheets of isometric drawings and the Snipe plans now include several of those.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 4:17 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I made a mock-up of the aileron servo/bellcrank geometry and there seems to be a problem in here somewhere. In this initial mock-up, I've used equal length rods and that may be were the problem lays. The bellcrank is the actual bellcrank from the kit. The length of the rods is close to correct length.

1. The first photo shows the effect with the bellcrank at approximately the position it would have at neutral in the wing. With the equal-length rods we see the resulting position for the servo horn.

2. The second photo shows the positions with the servo horn rotated up 90 degrees. This results in only around 22 degrees of rotation on the aileron.

3. The third photo shows what happens when the servo horn is rotated down. The rods bind at about 30 degrees, which would represent a bit more than 1cm of down travel on the aileron.

********

Second mock-up: Servo horn level, unequal rod lengths. Basic math: 45 degrees of servo movement = about 10 degrees of aileron movement.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 5:33 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I made an animated gif of the movements in the second mock-up. It might take a bit longer for the photo to load, so be patient!

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 6:55 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Going to the outside holes on the servo horns and making the separation at the top narrower gives more travel. Obviously to get equal travel on the horn and the bellcrank the rods would need to be parallel.

Actually, one thing I noticed earlier and have already informed Chris about is that the bellcrank part is about 1/4" longer than on the drawing. It should have a bit more than 1/4" clearance from the main spar in the bellecrank cutout area, but the length it is now, it just clears by a millimeter or so. Chris is already working on this.

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build - 10/21/2009 8:00 PM   
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Status: offline 		One thing is clear though from this experiment, the servo horn arms WILL be visible as they move up and down both above and below the surface of the wing. Note: The hatches provided by the kit will need a slot on the bottom.

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