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Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken part ... - 6/5/2009 7:58 PM   
markm75



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Status: offline 		I had read on here, that people were using lipos with success with the axe cp heli-max chopper (not sure which version i have, i got it used)..

So i picked up an FMA 3S 950mah 11.1v battery pack, rigged it to fit etc.. http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm...2208&section=69

It ran fine, then after about 5 minutes the battery was drained already.. as i took the canopy off, i noticed smoke coming from the ESC.

I thought maybe it just overheated, so i later tried it aga in, but the chopper flopped all over the place when i tested the throttle, destroying the rotor blades pretty good, and broke part of the top part of the rotor assembly, the 2 pieces that connect from the top (see photo). One of the server arms also broke, but i can fix that.

I'm assuming i need a Lipo compatible ESC? If so, which type/one would be good. The exact same ESC, if i went back to the NIMH pack, is $85 alone plus shipping

Also, does anyone know how i would make sure the chopper is balanced, both as a whole and with the blades etc.. is there any benefit to getting the carbon replacement rotor blades?

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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/6/2009 10:06 PM   
JEMFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		markm75,

All the info you need is available in this forum and at rcgroups.

In summary, the stock Axe esc's are compatible with  11.1v lipo packs, the 3s packs.

My opinion: the NIMH pack is worthless, and the stock 3 in 1 boards are way overpriced.

You do need to balance the blades and many kinds of blade balancers are available.  The Helimax
blade balancer, which I have, not surprisingly does not have an adapter to fit the Axe cp blades.
You would need to use 2mm bolts to modify one of the adapters to fit.

The helimax carbon fiber blades are a complete rip off in price.  Get plastic blades from Helidirect, see
my posts on this site.

If you have fried the 3 in 1, then you have a choice.  If you know how to solder, or can learn, then you can go with
after market brushed motor esc's and an after market gyro.  You could also choose to go with brushless motors.

If you don't feel comfortable with these mods, then you could try to find a used 3 in 1 on Ebay, or better buy a used
Axe CP NOT v3 for the board and spare parts.

Again, all the info you need is available here and in the official axe cp thread at rcgroups.

JEM

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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/7/2009 2:41 PM   
r_william


 

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Status: offline 		If you have a "V1" Axe it's 3 in 1 is (was) NOT compatable with the 11.1v LiPo, the V1 were NiMh powered so if that is the case you damaged the 3 in 1 due to excess voltage. (It's possible that it [3 in 1] just went bad as well.)

You now must replace the 3 in 1 or convert to separates, i.e. 2 ESCs and a gyro.  I don't know if the NiMh 3 in 1 is still avaialable but you don't want it anyway.

The 3 in 1 is actually a 4 in 1... 2-ESCs, gyro, and BEC.  Most of the [new] ESCs contain a BEC for powering the electronics.

There are plenty of threads describing this modification.

< Message edited by r_william -- 6/7/2009 2:42 PM >

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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/7/2009 5:35 PM   
JEMFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		I have been using LIPO's with my version 1 Axe, that came with NiMH battery, for a couple of years.  The original 3 in 1 works just fine with LIPO's.

In fact, the version 1 manual states "The optional "  910mAh LIPO "can be use for longer flight times and increased power."(See page 5)

The NiMH battery pack was 10.8 volts, versus 11.1 volts for the LIPO.  The 0.3 volt increase doesn't make any difference in this application.


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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/7/2009 6:34 PM   
markm75



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JEMFLYER

I have been using LIPO's with my version 1 Axe, that came with NiMH battery, for a couple of years.  The original 3 in 1 works just fine with LIPO's.

In fact, the version 1 manual states "The optional "  910mAh LIPO "can be use for longer flight times and increased power."(See page 5)

The NiMH battery pack was 10.8 volts, versus 11.1 volts for the LIPO.  The 0.3 volt increase doesn't make any difference in this application.



I have to figure out which version chopper i have.. not sure if its 1 or 2 etc..

I must have just ran it too long on the lipos i guess.. the battery life was down to 14% on the lipo.. which is bad, and it had only been 5-10 minutes, though full throttle.


*Does anyone know, based on the photo i attached, which part that is, that broke?

Though, when all is said and done, i may be better off just buying a second one and keeping this one for parts.




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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/8/2009 4:39 AM   
Shadow99


 

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Status: offline 		That looks to be a broken ball linkage on the blade grip.

To remove the blade grip you'll need to remove both blades, using (2) 2mm hex wrenches unscrew one of the bolts from the blade grip (attached to the feathering spindle). Twist the blade grip 90' and pull off the feathering spindle (don't lose the aluminum spacer or O-ring), then you can push the feathering shaft out the other blade grip. Then use a 4mm hex wrench & push the bearings & spacer out from the old blade grip (you'll need them in the new one).
Install the old bearing, spacer & bearing into the new blade grip, push the feathering back thru the rotorhead, push in the O-ring & spacer, slide on the other blade grip. Add a dab of medium thread locker to the 2mm bolt with washer & re-tighten the bolt using 2 hex wrenches. Snap the linkage from the seesaw onto the blade grip, attach the blades then CHECK THE BLADE TRACKING! Then your ready to fly!

Shadow


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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/16/2009 11:45 PM   
markm75



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quote:

ORIGINAL: r_william

If you have a "V1" Axe it's 3 in 1 is (was) NOT compatable with the 11.1v LiPo, the V1 were NiMh powered so if that is the case you damaged the 3 in 1 due to excess voltage. (It's possible that it [3 in 1] just went bad as well.)

You now must replace the 3 in 1 or convert to separates, i.e. 2 ESCs and a gyro.  I don't know if the NiMh 3 in 1 is still avaialable but you don't want it anyway.

The 3 in 1 is actually a 4 in 1... 2-ESCs, gyro, and BEC.  Most of the [new] ESCs contain a BEC for powering the electronics.

There are plenty of threads describing this modification.


From everyones help here.. it appears i need this blade grip to fix the broken one<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><meta content="Word.Document" name="ProgId"><meta content="Microsoft Word 12" name="Generator"><meta content="Microsoft Word 12" name="Originator"> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNWH9&P=M, a set of new rotors, and a new ESC

I've done some searching, but unless i'm not using the right terms, i'm not finding much about what ESC i should be switching to, on this version 1.0 axe cp, to be able to use the lipo (3s 910mah 11.1v) pack i just bought. 

Either way, if these parts total any where near $140, i should skip it, i've seen version 3.0, lipo ready with battery for the same price.

I do know that the original ESC is around $80, so that almost rules out fixing it with all original parts.
I'd probably keep the old one for spare parts or sell it as is.

Is there anyone here that can point me to the right discussion on what ESC i would want to replace the original v1 with?

Thanks



< Message edited by markm75 -- 6/17/2009 12:01 AM >

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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/17/2009 5:58 AM   
Shadow99


 

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Status: offline 		Keep it simple!

The stock 3in1 (main motor ESC, tail motor ESC & rate gyro) on the AXE CP (V1 thru V3) is LIPO COMPATABLE!

A 4in1 is a receiver, main motor ESC, tail motor ESC & rate gyro.

This is all you'll need to convert to separates:

1.) A 25amp brushed Electronic Speed Control (ESC) for the stock main brushed motor
2.) A 5 to 8amp brushed ESC for the stock brushed tail motor
3.) A RATE or Heading Hold gyro (Futaba G190 rate gyro, telebee TB-1 HH, GY240 HH, etc.)

On my AXE CPv1 when I swapped out the 3in1, I got a 30amp ESC from Tower for around $40 bucks I think it was a Electri-Fly C-25, the tail ESC was a C-12. The Gyro I had used was a Futaba GY240 Heading Hold, a heading hold gyro holds the tail in whatever spot you want. Where as a RATE gyro requires corrective action depending upon throttle position (this is what the AXE comes with), ever notice with the stock 3in1, when you added throttle quickly that the tail would more right input, this doesn't happen with a properly set-up HH gyro.

If you wish, you could just order another 3in1 it will work fine with a 11.1v 3 cell lipo.

Shadow




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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/17/2009 7:00 AM   
markm75



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow99

Keep it simple!

The stock 3in1 (main motor ESC, tail motor ESC & rate gyro) on the AXE CP (V1 thru V3) is LIPO COMPATABLE!

A 4in1 is a receiver, main motor ESC, tail motor ESC & rate gyro.

This is all you'll need to convert to separates:

1.) A 25amp brushed Electronic Speed Control (ESC) for the stock main brushed motor
2.) A 5 to 8amp brushed ESC for the stock brushed tail motor
3.) A RATE or Heading Hold gyro (Futaba G190 rate gyro, telebee TB-1 HH, GY240 HH, etc.)

On my AXE CPv1 when I swapped out the 3in1, I got a 30amp ESC from Tower for around $40 bucks I think it was a Electri-Fly C-25, the tail ESC was a C-12. The Gyro I had used was a Futaba GY240 Heading Hold, a heading hold gyro holds the tail in whatever spot you want. Where as a RATE gyro requires corrective action depending upon throttle position (this is what the AXE comes with), ever notice with the stock 3in1, when you added throttle quickly that the tail would more right input, this doesn't happen with a properly set-up HH gyro.

If you wish, you could just order another 3in1 it will work fine with a 11.1v 3 cell lipo.

Shadow





Then i wonder why i fried the esc with the lipo i was using?  Could it be, because i didnt realize the juice was getting low, since there is no throttle cutoff, like on my lipo esc in my twinstar?  I just went too long?  It sure didnt seem like i ran long though.

So in your setup of parts, 1-3 above, you think the above 3 total less than say $85 (the cost of a new 3 in 1 unit).. I'm assuming to get those parts working, i'd have to do soldering (no big deal to me), though the exact wiring isnt obvious to me as of yet (i come from using mainly electric planes, this being the first chopper)...

I'm hesitant to use the esc with the lipo, if i did buy another 3 in 1, again.  I think i'd probably just use the nimh packs and sell the 910mah lipo, though i'd have to buy the charger that came with the set originally, as my friend couldnt find his.







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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 6/18/2009 2:48 AM   
JEMFLYER


 

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Using a lipo had nothing to do with frying your 3 in 1 board.

Nor did "overdischarging" the lipo.

You either have an intermittent short circuit or there was a component failure due to some other cause.

A likely place for such a short is in the tail motor wires, often caused by using too long a "bolt" to hold the tail motor mount on.

Dial up www.hobbyking.com and order  a 20 amp brushed motor esc for the tail, a 30 amp brushed motor esc for the main motor and
a gyro.  I would buy the telebee gyro because it is light and easy to use.

With shipping it'll cost you about $50.  But you will have a much better set up than stock.

With any luck you'll see a picture showing how I configured an Axe with two brushed motor esc's.

Happy flying!

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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 9/2/2011 7:39 PM   
markm75



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Status: offline 		Believe it or not i'm just now getting to deciding to do something with this axe heli..

I've read through everyones suggestions..

As far as the part that is broke, i'm unclear, i dont think its the blade grip.. see the two images:
Highlighted on this stock image is what broke on mine compared to my original (blurry) shot:


I came up with these two options for ESC's, to not go the route of a used 3 in 1 (i also didnt see any on ebay).. however these options i dont think will work, without the gyro, the gyro mentioned in this thread was about $129, any combination in parts above $80, wasnt worth it on a $150 or so, priced heli..


10 amp micro brushed motor for TAIL (couldn’t find a 20 amp micro for some reason), good enough? $27.99 http://www.amazon.com/E-flite-10-Amp-Micro-Brushed-ESC/dp/B0006O5AFU
20 amp brushed motor for main rotor (didn’t see a 30 amp), this one says “with brake” and is a mini not micro $34.99 http://www.amazon.com/20-Amp-Mini-Brushed-ESC-Brake/dp/B000BKUZUY/ref=sr_1_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1314983162&sr=1-2 (E-flite)

The above parts, if correct total, around $68.

Or

5-8 amp brushed ESC for tail C-12, 12amp, MICRO $30 http://www.hobbyfever.com/product_info.php?products_id=12755

25 amp brushed ESC for Motor C-25 $35 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXKBF4&P=8

Above parts, still roughly $65-$70


So i'm still trying to figure out the name for the part that broke, and maybe a cheaper gyro if i've got my info correct?

And all this and I still could have a toasted or glitchy receiver too i guess.

Probably should just start looking for a used heli of a different type or brand or model.


Thanks again

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RE: Axe CP Heli- Replace ESC with lipo compat? Broken p... - 9/8/2011 9:44 PM   
Shadow99


 

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Status: offline 		The link you were holding with your finger, if the highlighted pic is the same as your Axe.
Goes from the Bell-Hiller mixer on the blade-grip to the seesaw. Either the ball-link on the seesaw is toast or the ball-link on the mixer arm. I have repaired plastics ball-links before by CA glueing the part back together, then drill a hole thru the center & CA in a piece of piano-wire in the hole (extra security).

Shadow

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