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Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/7/2009 11:00 PM   
JetNovice


 

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I was curious to the bonding strength of the two, i am pretty sure the Hysol is supior to the expoxy but my deliema is that i have already used expoxy to install all my controll horns onto the controll surfaces. this is on a 1/8 SM F16. Anyone have any first hand experiance using epoxy for this type of stuff and have had problems or success please chime in.. I am debating if i should go back and dremel them back out and use Hysol.. i really dont want to but i rather go through the headache of doing so if need be, then to have one of the horns breaking loses during flight and losing the whole jet. This is my first Turbine jet i have built so i was not aware of Hysol untill i spoke to another member that had the same jet and i noticed all his glue seams were white and i asked and then he told me that i really needed to use Hysol instead..I have built many EDF jets and have always used epoxy but they are no where near the caliber of the SM F16.
Thanks in advance. Minh



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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/7/2009 11:03 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		Hysol is a type of epoxy.

What epoxy have you used?

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/7/2009 11:23 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		as stated Hysol is an industrial/aerospace grade epoxy, it has a high shear and peel strength compared to your average hardware store epoxies. what name brand and pot life (5 min....30 min.....etc..) did you use??

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/7/2009 11:56 PM   
JetNovice


 

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Status: offline 		I am using just your average 15 min 2 part epoxy. I think the brand is great plains. tell me what you guys think i should do.
thanks again.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 12:03 AM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		dig it out and redo it. the Great Planes epoxies are low quality and will yellow and soften with age.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 2:26 AM   
olnico



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Status: offline 		You basically have 3 types of Hysol ( out of the many references available from Loctite ) that are suitable for our hobby:
9462
E-20NS
E-20HP

9462 is a high impact high tear epoxy. It remains slightly flexible when fully cured. It is a great epoxy but takes about 2 hours to set and 15 to 24 hours to get fully cured. Coulor: cream.
E-20NS is my favourite. It is fast ( 20 minutes to set / 2 to 4 hours full cure ) and non sag ( very thick ). It has a very high shear force but get very hard, thus more breakable then 9264 when fully cure. Coulor: white.
E-20HP is the repair glue per excellence. It is fast ( 20 min/2-4 hours ) and fluid. That means that it is perfect to push into cracks. It is also very well suited to glue control horns into slots. Colour: transparent.

The 50 ml cans are best suited for our hobby. The type of tip matters as well.
For the best glue mixing, far reach and big work, I use long tips.
For small works, I use shorter tips ( quicker tip cleaning time, less glue waste as well )
For tip cleaning, I remove the inner spiral, clean with acetone and a brush ( thin brush fr the inside ). Let it dry before reassembling. Can be re-used 6 to 10 times. After a while the inner spiral will brake...

As a summary, I use 9462 for formers gluing in a fuselage mostly. Is use E-NS for almost everything else and E-20HP for repairs and control horn gluing.

Here is a very professional online shop that sells them ( as well as Mc Master Carr )
glue:
http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_83142.html
http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_29334.html
http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_29314.html
gun:
http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_98472.html
short square tips:
http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_98444.html
Long round tip:
http://www.rshughes.com/products/079340_98455.html







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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 2:38 AM   
JetNovice


 

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Status: offline 		I guess I need to redo the servo mounts also with hysol.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 2:42 AM   
marc s



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Status: offline 		Oliver,

Hi, evening. Just another number for you to try - 9464, over here in the UK 9462 is very expensive and has just gone up in price, the 9464 is identical in almost all specs but mixes to a grey thixotropic paste instead of cream, does mean you know when its totally mixed though! If you can get it cheaper than the 9462 then its really superb gear.

I have the latest Hysol catalogues but no 'E' prefix epoxies so will check with the Hysol rep tomorrow and check them out - like you I use a 20min two part thixo epoxy for almost all work other than high stress applications, great for this hobby.

PS hatch catches being posted tomorrow.

marcs.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 4:38 AM   
olnico



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quote:

ORIGINAL: marc s

Oliver,

Hi, evening. Just another number for you to try - 9464, over here in the UK 9462 is very expensive and has just gone up in price, the 9464 is identical in almost all specs but mixes to a grey thixotropic paste instead of cream, does mean you know when its totally mixed though! If you can get it cheaper than the 9462 then its really superb gear.

I have the latest Hysol catalogues but no 'E' prefix epoxies so will check with the Hysol rep tomorrow and check them out - like you I use a 20min two part thixo epoxy for almost all work other than high stress applications, great for this hobby.

PS hatch catches being posted tomorrow.

marcs.


Thanks for the great feedback Marc.
The nomenclature that I have described is for the USA market. The E reference probably sells under another name in the UK.
I purchase all my glue in the USA.  9462 is relatively cheap there.

Thank you for reminding me of the 9462 problem:
This glue reference often comes with a boxing default. Some air is trapped in the tube,  giving a possible wrong mixing randomly.
Two tips to avoid being trapped:
1) Check the mix colour when it comes out of the tip.
2) Place all the cartridges nose up in the oven at 50°c for one hour. Then remove them and centrifugate them one by one by holding it ans rotating your arm as fast as possible in circles. Store nose up. This works perfectly well. When you first sqeeze the cartridge, do it in a paper tissue until both side glue get out of the cartridge tip.



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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 6:41 AM   
Desertlakesflying


 

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Status: offline 		If I use any hardware store epoxy, it is only 30 minute Loctite brand. Never any problems.  It cures yellow though so Make sure you are readyto wipe the excess.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 8:18 AM   
timrob



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quote:

ORIGINAL: olnico


For small works, I use shorter tips ( quicker tip cleaning time, less glue waste as well )




Hi

Didn't someone on here awhile ago do some testing on the small tips, and found that they didn't mix thoroughly enough to provide a reliable joint?  Or was it just a recommendation from some glue guru?

Tim



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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 12:43 PM   
olnico



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quote:

ORIGINAL: timrob


quote:

ORIGINAL: olnico


For small works, I use shorter tips ( quicker tip cleaning time, less glue waste as well )




Hi

Didn't someone on here awhile ago do some testing on the small tips, and found that they didn't mix thoroughly enough to provide a reliable joint?  Or was it just a recommendation from some glue guru?

Tim




The mix problem is mostly due to the air bubbles issues in the 9462 that I described earlier.
I have used both long and short tips for years and ALWAYS check the quality of the glue joint after each gluing ( mostly because of this air problem again ). I have not detected any alterarion of the bonding quality with short tips.
The tips that I have included in the links above are proven over at least 4 years of regular use...



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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 5:08 PM   
frothingslosh



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Status: offline 		I've used 15 and 30 min. epoxy exclusively until I found out about Hysol.  BUT, I always mixed in some glass fibers which at least doubles the strength.

I quit using the mixing nozzles with the Hysol . . . besides a questionable mix, they are expensive, can only be used once, and they waste a considerable amount of the Hysol.  I now do all my mixing and application by hand. 

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 5:26 PM   
timrob



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quote:

ORIGINAL: frothingslosh
I quit using the mixing nozzles with the Hysol . . . besides a questionable mix, they are expensive, can only be used once, and they waste a considerable amount of the Hysol.  I now do all my mixing and application by hand. 


I quit using the nozzles for the same reason.  I only use them if I need to get into a small area, and even then I hate using them because of the waste.

Tim



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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 5:42 PM   
olnico



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Status: offline 		Yes, waisting product in the tips is a problem.
On the other hand, I keep using them because love the precision of the gluing joint that they offer.

I have done many tests with Hysol and other products. There is no way that the glue strength is multiplied by two when mixed in a cup. I have not noticed any difference in fact.
The mixing tips when cleaned with acetone can be reused around 10 times.


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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 6:00 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		there are two different styles of the short nozzles, the one on the left in the pic is acceptable and gives a complete mixing, the one on the right does not and shouldn't be used.



Attachments
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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 6:03 PM   
AndyAndrews


 

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Status: offline 		Oliver, what is the Hysol equivalent to BVM's Vpoxy?  That stuff makes me deathly ill.  Causes respiratory problems for me and almost an emergency room visit the last time I used it.  Whereas 9462 doesn't bother me at all.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 6:09 PM   
timrob



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Status: offline 		E-20HP is the Vpoxy.  9462 is Aeropoxy.  The 9464 is very similar in consistency to Aeropoxy, but fast setting (20 mins) and is a grey color (which can get messy as it stands out very clearly on white fiberglass parts).

KC, where does each of the nozzles come from (who makes them)?


Tim


< Message edited by timrob -- 6/9/2009 12:40 PM >

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 6:24 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		both came from Dreamworks.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 9:46 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		I think there is a lot of hype about Hysol and you can get the feeling that it is bulletproof and it isn't.

I had a bumpy landing recently and my nosegear former half ripped out. I needed to remove the former completely and just gave it a hard tug and it came off in my hand. This former was glued in with hand mixed Hysol.

I still use it but I think, for the majority of our purposes, the quality of the joint preparation is much more important than whether you use Hysol or good quality slow setting epoxy.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 10:01 PM   
KC36330



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............. I needed to remove the former completely and just gave it a hard tug and it came off in my hand. This former was glued in with hand mixed Hysol.



then whomever didn't properly install it. if the fiberglass had been sanded, wiped with alcohol and then glued you can't pull it off without damaging the fiberglass. same for two wood pcs joined with it, you'll tear wood off before you can brake the joint.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 10:42 PM   
Vincent



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I have only used the 9462 and love it. I see the E-20NS is a metal type epoxy ?? I searched on the net for it and found this info.
V..

 

Loctite® E-20NS™ Hysol® Epoxy Adhesive, Metal Bonder is a light tan, non-sag, high peel, high shear adhesive with a 20-minute worklife. Excellent high temperature properties for metal bonding.



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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/8/2009 11:24 PM   
Thud_Driver



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Status: offline 		Nice thing about E-20NS is it starts to firm up in 20 minutes and you can handle the parts in an hour or so.  I use it alot.  Sticks well and is hard as a rock.  I've used long and short nozzles without problems.  I've also used E-20HP but prefer the 20NS.

Don't worry about the metal bonding thing.  It works well on plywood and glass fuselages.

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/9/2009 12:29 AM   
Steve Steinbring


 

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Status: offline 		Check out Epo-Grip Adhesives!

Comparable to the Aeropoxy and Hysol, but packaged without the mixing nozzles. No tubes or mixing nozzles, just mix what you require. Great shelf life if used and stored properly. Many of the Top Gun, IMAC and pro-builders are already using Epo-Grip products.

www.epogrip.com

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RE: Hysol VS Epoxy - 6/9/2009 2:53 AM   
icepilot



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Status: offline 		I have been using Araldite and other epoxies ever since I raced RC boats - heat racing boats that take an extreme beating
compared to our planes. I agree 100% with the post saying that the way you prepare the joint is much more important than
the glue itself. If you mix it properly and add some fibres to it, it will last forever and be more than strong enough for our use.

For larger jobs like repairs or glassing I use West Systems epoxy - a great, professional product for industry and boat use.

Tor



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