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No Nelson - 6/12/2009 6:30 PM   
jaka


 

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From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
What happens now to 428 pylon when Nelson is gone???


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RE: No Nelson - 6/12/2009 6:37 PM   
mdwpylonracer42h


 

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Status: offline 		Not much will happen - you can by a Jett or Profi motor.  To go faster, Jett is preferable.

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RE: No Nelson - 6/13/2009 3:40 PM   
jaka


 

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From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
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But a pylon racing class with just two engine manufacturers...!!??  What would happen if the Profi "went" too?...One racing engine manufacturer left!




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RE: No Nelson - 6/13/2009 4:00 PM   
BarryReade


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaka

Hi!
But a pylon racing class with just two engine manufacturers...!!??  What would happen if the Profi "went" too?...One racing engine manufacturer left!





So????  I remember when there was only K&B and Super Tigre for F1 back in the 70's and the ST's where really hard to come by so most of us ran K&B's.  When Q500 first started the motors were as the 424 Q class is but it was the K&B FRSE motor was the motor of choice.  It will always fluctuate.  Here today and gone tomorrow no big deal.



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RE: No Nelson - 6/13/2009 4:28 PM   
fizzwater2


 

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Status: offline 		424, the class around here with the largest entries, is TTpro .40, one engine.  Dont see that as a problem


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RE: No Nelson - 6/13/2009 4:47 PM   
BarryReade


 

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Status: offline 		I agree Fizz!!


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RE: No Nelson - 6/14/2009 7:33 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		Fizz ... isn't 424 kinda slow with the TT Pro 40? I was running my Viper wiht a TT Pro 46, Rossi 53 and that was not really fast at all. Or is it that my plane is just a slow poke?


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RE: No Nelson - 6/14/2009 1:21 PM   
Ed Smith


 

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quote:

Hi!
But a pylon racing class with just two engine manufacturers...!!??  What would happen if the Profi "went" too?...One racing engine manufacturer left!


For about fifteen years there was only one 428 and Q40 engine. Nelson. During that time the racing activity did not seem to suffer.

Ed S

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RE: No Nelson - 6/14/2009 4:59 PM   
fizzwater2


 

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Status: offline 		424 is certainly slower than 428, for sure - but that doesn't mean it's not fun racing!  We typically get turnouts of 16-25 folks at the races around here in the last year or so, things are looking up.  We're lucky to get 4 or 5 for a 428 race, but we're having good luck with the 424's. 




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RE: No Nelson - 6/14/2009 5:03 PM   
BarryReade


 

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Status: offline 		And that is the purpose of 424.  To be slower than 428.  It also costs a lot less to have a competitive airplane.


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RE: No Nelson - 6/14/2009 6:22 PM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		Yeah that's true 424 allows it to be affordable ... I am sure with 4 planes going round the pylon it will feel very fast for sure for the competitors. My problem is Ionly have one other friend who flies a Q500 and its just the 2 of us. I need to convert more people.


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RE: No Nelson - 6/14/2009 6:28 PM   
fizzwater2


 

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Status: offline 		The cost is much better - you can have lots of fun, close races, with an 85 dollar motor.  That is one of the reasons why we get so much better turnout. 


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RE: No Nelson - 6/15/2009 2:00 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fizzwater2

The cost is much better - you can have lots of fun, close races, with an 85 dollar motor.  That is one of the reasons why we get so much better turnout. 




I CD'd a race last weekend and we advertised 424 and 428... but we did not have enough 428 racers to put on a race. Nelson/No-Nelson or any other uber fast motor dosn't matter a bit at the local level. The few people who show up with their $500 composite and the latest gummy cranked engine simply don't want to put it at risk for nothing - and there is the whole problem with local 428 racing. The 424 racing however with inexpensive Vipers, Predators and even a few home growns was extremely competitive and a lot of fun. I setup a Viper with a old Nelson to race 428 - really just to show we really don't have to spend that much to have fun - but no-one really wanted to race - we did however have some scintilllating 428 test flying after handing out the 424 trophies!


dan


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RE: No Nelson - 6/16/2009 8:51 AM   
freeair


 

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Status: offline 		i feel if your going to spend the dollars on a good Nelson / Jett or Profi engine your better of running in Q-40 / F3D class,  look at the difference in aerodynamics between this class of model and the shoulder wing Q-500 models.

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RE: No Nelson - 6/16/2009 11:22 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		I realise that running a nice Q500 is not cheap, its nuts. Mid air is a reality and sometimes the flying field is not the best. The Viper is a great buy but would be better if she were slightly lighter!


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RE: No Nelson - 6/16/2009 1:47 PM   
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Status: offline 		Some folks have more disposable income than others.  Those that do Enjoy!!


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RE: No Nelson - 6/16/2009 4:38 PM   
DMyer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauderer

Some folks have more disposable income than others.  Those that do Enjoy!!



...extra emphasis on the the word "Disposable"!  


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RE: No Nelson - 6/17/2009 11:28 AM   
luv to race


 

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Status: offline 		end the "disposable" side of things.. go to time trials FAI type racing. Do one plane heats, race for time. No more mid-airs. simple. If you crash on your own, you have nobody to blame but yourself.



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RE: No Nelson - 6/17/2009 1:08 PM   
daven



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Status: offline 		Randy, too many of us like the 4 plane heats and the excitement of stacking them up around the pylons. Yes midairs happen,  we've both had our share, but I could crash several Q40's every year and still be cheaper than running and maintaining a couple FAI planes


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RE: No Nelson - 6/17/2009 8:01 PM   
wrstew


 

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Status: offline 		DaveN-   I think this fits, being as I don't have to buy a LS to keep up (HA),  just for us who don't know how expensive FAI is, could you give a general breakdown as to pricing?  IE  engine, airframe, servos, gear, etc>?   I'm curious how much money I'm saving!        Thanks,  Randy


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RE: No Nelson - 6/18/2009 1:46 PM   
luv to race


 

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Status: offline 		sorry my bad here...I wasn't clear enough. 

I was not saying race FAI planes.  When people **** and moan about cost due to crashing (mid-airs..hence "disposable" planes...)   I was saying race one at a time.  If you only have one plane in the air, you can't hit anyone. common sense tells you that.

FAI expenses.... I've spent FAR LESS on FAI then I every have on Q40 and Q500.   Mostly because you don't crash much in FAI (that has to be because you don't race side by side, and you launch 1 second apart).  The engines are about $125 more in FAI, and you do have to spend $80 on a pipe.  So that's $200 more all together, than a Nelson.  The engines however, are more durable than any Q40 engine out there. If you burn a piston, it's about $50 bucks for a new piston, no liner change. Heads are $25 - $30 bucks.  Planes will run you $750 - $1200... (my last Proud Bird was $800 painted)  Most FAI planes are painted in the mold.  Same radio gear as Q40 and Q500, so no change.   Props are about $20 - $40 range. They are full carbon layed up in a mold, they last forever. And you could make your own like we do.

AGAIN... I wasn't saying to race FAI planes.  I too enjoy watching us smash our crap in the ground. It's hilarious! 


RB

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RE: No Nelson - 6/18/2009 7:15 PM   
daven



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Status: offline 		Interesting perspective Randy, but someone like you could land a dump truck perfectly every time

A few other costs not mentioned are a special adjustable"break-away" glow driver, 1 use globbee plugs, multiple props and pipes depending on conditions, and TIME.

Watching you and others over the past 10 years, TIME has to be the biggest investment if you want to be successfull at FAI. All the money in the world won't make you successful if you don't learn to understand the motors, pipes, and props, let alone setting a perfect needle and getting your launch procedure perfected.

Someday I would like to get into it, too many other things to concentrate on right now though.




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RE: No Nelson - 6/19/2009 1:00 AM   
j.gibson


 

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Status: offline 		Dave,
  Sorry to change the subject , but how is the job search going and will you be at the NATS?

John G.


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RE: No Nelson - 6/19/2009 4:14 AM   
daven



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Status: offline 		John,

Big segway there, job search is going pretty well, I had a 2nd interview at a great company last week and have a 4 hour 3rd interview scheduled tomorrow that sounds very promising. My wife are leaving bright and early and are planning on making a weekend out of it. Now if I can just trust jr. not to trash the house...

I am planning on being in Muncie, and with Randy not there, can pretty much assume my finish has just increased by 1

Hope your there, can always use new cannon fodder


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